Whitetails taking over Blacktial spots in Region 2: The Video

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Originally Posted by LBM

Interesting in many different regions of the provience people are worried about declining animal
populations you have one that may be increasing/expanding and you want to shoot them.

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I'm not from BC so my opinion may differ but the more the merrier ! They are much more fun and satisfying to hunt, they taste drastically better than any mule deer and they breed substantially faster and can keep up with about any amount of hunting pressure as proven by the USA.

I guess the underlying question is:
Are WT "that adaptive" (in the case of this thread of them expanding into R2 and BT country), or,
are WT's just taking advantage of "human caused factors"? (ie: logging).

If WT are that adaptive and will be all over regions where they normally inhabit, than I don't see
a problem of trying to reduce or remove them from BT country.
No different than MD areas, like parts of R3.

Like I said, I have seen WT in areas that you would have only have seen MD, even if the area always held both MD and WT together, there were just some parts of the terrain that MD held
to themselves.
But that's not the case anymore.
WT are not only moving westward to the coast (as per Caddisguy's videos) but they are also moving up in elevation as well. (I have seen that).

So, are human factors the cause? and WT's are just capitalizing.
And at the expense of BT and MD?

No doubt human factors are to blame for their expansion. Whitetail are more adaptive to these changes. However they are also more aggressive and cross breeding is an issue. Whitetail also have a higher reproductive rate than Blacktails. All this means that they can eventually push out MD and Blacktail from their existing ranges.

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Originally Posted by whitlers

No doubt human factors are to blame for their expansion. Whitetail are more adaptive to these changes. However they are also more aggressive and cross breeding is an issue. Whitetail also have a higher reproductive rate than Blacktails. All this means that they can eventually push out MD and Blacktail from their existing ranges.

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Sounds kind of like what's going on with another more intelligent species and their existing ranges.

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Originally Posted by whitlers

No doubt human factors are to blame for their expansion. Whitetail are more adaptive to these changes. However they are also more aggressive and cross breeding is an issue. Whitetail also have a higher reproductive rate than Blacktails. All this means that they can eventually push out MD and Blacktail from their existing ranges.

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Cross breeding between WT/MD or BT/WT is rare the only issue with cross breeding is between MD/BT where it’s common and the hybrids are not sterile

WT make an impact do to compilation, their ability to adapt, and often produce more offspring

There is many long standing populations that have both MD and WT. The results are the habitat dictates where the higher concentration are of each species with crossover between the two. There are tons of examples across North America showing this. It does not matter what species of ungulate expands into a new area there will be displacement of the ungulate species that are already present. As an example many studies show elk to have the greatest impact on MD populations

Ungulates that share the same habitat impact one another through competition. It can definitely result in changes to which is the dominant species according to what species benefits most from the habitat

Things are not as simple as some try to make it out to be

Whitetails have been expanding all over north America for a long time. All the bios that I've read have predicted this to keep happening. Gotta say though I'm surprised that you've got so many and fairly consistently on camera caddis in pretty much the coastal rainforest. Wonder how long it'll be before a couple swim over to the island :?: AFA being a big problem for black tails..one thing I've noticed about them is if something's bothering them they're pretty quick to pull a Houdini. Here's hoping, there's no doubt they're not the robust survivors that WT are. Nothing is.

I love all the different perspectives and considerations in this thread, along with all the reports of sightings. I'm particularly interested in the Squamish ones. Salty google says those deer can swim pretty fast. They're on the coast and it sounds like they are seaworthy, probably on some gulf islands already.

All the feedback here has got me thinking about the difference between WT's and BT's and the differences in how they use their habitat. Seems like BT's are homebodies that play the best hide and seek in their homes but have trouble adapting to change, whereas WT's are nomads that can adapt on the fly and can work with less cover.

We've carved out all these routes and pockets so things like WT's and wolves can move around and do what they do best, while BT's struggle with less hide and seek, more pressure from the preds and competition from the WT's, let alone interbreeding with MD's.

I can't say I like what the outcome is going to be... and I still want to establish an army with automatic weapons, RPG's and the whole works to defend 100-200km inland. I have a secret crush on BT deer and my instinct is to protect them even if it is futile... as long as they have one patch of timber to hide in, my instinct is to guard them. I'll always be biased I guess. Don't expect a logical response from me on this one :) It is sad that blacktail deer will be extinct. I am not sure what the timeline is, but I would guess a few hundred years they will be pretty much killed off and breaded out.

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Originally Posted by Wild one

Cross breeding between WT/MD or BT/WT is rare the only issue with cross breeding is between MD/BT where it’s common and the hybrids are not sterile

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My understanding is that MD's were a product of WT and BT deer interbreeding. I would guess that was a fluke, but it would seem non-sterile offspring did occur. I imagine it could happen again. Maybe in a few decades we'll have another type of deer tag... the "straight beam spike-fork black-mule" or something. BT's and WT's are overlapping like never-in-recent-history before. Some weird stuff is going to happen. Looks like it already is.

You would be hard pressed to tell anyone on the Gulf Islands or in Victoria, Nanaimo etc. that Blacktail deer are going extinct.

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Originally Posted by caddisguy

My understanding is that MD's were a product of WT and BT deer interbreeding. I would guess that was a fluke, but it would seem non-sterile offspring did occur. I imagine it could happen again. Maybe in a few decades we'll have another type of deer tag... the "straight beam spike-fork black-mule" or something. BT's and WT's are overlapping like never-in-recent-history before. Some weird stuff is going to happen. Looks like it already is.

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I have read the theory you are talking about and also the theory that BT are the original deer and both MD and WT are just generic mutations of the original BT. There is a few other theories about the relationship of North America’s deer species but I am still on my first cup of coffee and can’t remember them right now

I actually had to look into WT/BT hybrid possibilities when you posted this thread because I could not remember if it was much of an issue. The information I could find was out of Washington and the verdict was it was the same situation as WT/MD hybrids it happens but not often. The offspring that they have found were also sterile

Maybe once I have some more coffee I will remember more lol