Maybe there really is something wrong with the LEH system

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Originally Posted by Wagonmaster

So, over the years many suggestions have appeared on this site that the LEH system is "rigged" or screwed up in some way. Some people apply for years and never get drawn while others are repeat winners with tags in back to back years. I always believed that it was computer driven and that there was no reason for inequities to occur. However, a recent post indicated that this year, a hunter received an LEH authorization for moose with his second choice for Oct.1-14 in region 5-02C. That should be impossible. Second choice success is only possible if there are unfilled authorizations available after all applications for that hunt have been run through the draw process. 5-02C has odds of 12.5:1 (will vary slightly from year to year) which means there are twelve times as many applicants as authorizations available. It is impossible for one to be available for a second choice. This aberration, or perhaps more accurately, this error, needs to be brought to the attention of those in charge of the LEH system for an explanation.

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Human error is rampant, and I myself am guilty of it this year. I made a mistake, illogically was surprised to see that the odds for my favorite moose hunting MU had dropped by 50%. Only later did I realize that I looked at the wrong line and had entered several groups into the wrong LEH draw. In regards to second choices, because its basically impossible I simply randomly pick a second set of numbers close to the original set. I wonder if there was simply an error by the poster rather than an actual second choice winner.

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Originally Posted by Wild one

BCs wildlife/hunter management is broken enough said

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Its not broken per say...simply way under funded.

I use to think it was rigged until my two buddies put in for the first rifle elk hunt in Sechelt......yup, they got both tags!!

One in our party of four got more moose draws in 7-11 than the other three combined...IIRC, odds were 5.5-1. He had many back to back bulls......

My luck has run to one moose draw in the last 20 years.....my son who has now hunted 13 years has got one flat top draw.....we do the high odds (elk) but moose and deer are all around 5-6.5:1 odds.


Like the lottery, someone will win, but it wont be me!:lol:

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Originally Posted by Wagonmaster

I am not upset about the system and do, in fact, understand it clearly. The computer model is a good one, designed to be fair and help manage B.C.'s wildlife. Whether it does that effectively, or not, is another topic. All I am saying, is that the system is apparently prone to glitches or errors. Computers are not infallible. It is certainly possible for some individuals to obtain moose draws in consecutive years even with the reduced odds component and yes some people seem to be more lucky than others. I have a buddy that has been successful twice for an Island elk. All I'm saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for one to be successful for the hunt in question with a second choice. The odds for this hunt were 12.5:1 last year. In 2014/15 they were 10.6:1, 2015/16 14.7:1 and 2016/17 15.3:1. To clarify, if there are 10 authorizations available for a particular moose hunt and their are 100 hunters applying as a first choice, then the odds are 10:1. So, when those 100 are entered into the computer, 10 will get authorizations and 90 will be rejected. THERE ARE NO AUTHORIZATIONS LEFT FOR SECOND CHOICE. The only time a second choice is possible is when the odds are LESS THAN 1:1. So, if someone gets a draw for the hunt in 5-02C as a second choice, then the computer made a mistake. Someone suggested the hunter, in question, must have read his paperwork wrong. That is possible and I have emailed the individual asking that he double check and confirm one way or the other.

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Technically this isn't completely IMPOSSIBLE, especially with moose and other species with group hunts... For example, if there is an odd number of tags given out, 11 or 13 or 27 or whatever you get the idea, and everyone who puts in for that area is a group of 3 or more (thus 2 authorizations per group) and no small groups or individuals in 1st choice then it could move to a 2nd choice for that one odd ball left over rather than exceeding or under-utilizing the allowed quota. This could also explain in rare instances why some get draws back to back etc, if they clean up the "left overs" with a small group or and individual only entitled to one tag...

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Originally Posted by Wild one

BCs wildlife/hunter management is broken enough said

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Strongly disagree
The regs in place control the regulated hunting in a way not to be the cause of population declines ........for the most part.
Its not the regulated hunter that has caused serious over-all population declines even though declines have occurred in specific areas on purpose

No body has any specific target population levels as a target, so to say there is failure to achieve a target is wrong. Just because there are hunters whining about 'not like the old days' doesn't mean things are being done wrong.
IF and a BIG IF a mandate ever gets put in place to manage wildlife to a certain number or a certain carrying capacity for habitat, then actions can be judged working towards that goal. Its not as easy as just saying we want more.

We have all heard the term 'managing to zero'. That is about sitting by and watching things trundle along with out intervention whether rising or crashing, while allowing as much opportunity as possible to appease the hunters. Doesn't mean
numbers are being forced down or that something is broken.

Once a mandate comes in that managers are to manage all wildlife to a higher number and to manage habitat to a higher holding capacity, there will be changes nobody will be happy about

Sorry, but who really cares????

It's hunting season and right now, BC STILL has the best GOS in NA, so instead of worrying about a mistake that happened 4 months ago, focus on the next 2.5 months and go fill the freezer.

If it repeats it self, then maybe they have a problem, but making a post about what someone said on the internet without anything to back it up is picking the fly shit out of the pepper....

Now bring on hunting stories and pictures/videos of peoples adventures!!

Cheers

SS

But aren't the LEH draws also based on where you pick and the number of others who apply for the same MU? Pick a popular one and your chances are lower, no? The MU I got my moose LEH for is 70km off the main road, so not an "easy" to get to spot. The past years, my application was in more popular areas and I was SOL. They publish your "odds" so went for the one(s) with better odds and got a draw this year. Means I have to do more scouting and put in time, but at least I finally have a chance.

I,m with Sitkaspruce! As a side note. People on this site love to bash the people who operate the LEH system. The number of applications filled out improperly was in the range of one in four. Who are the real dummies?

I filled in the wrong number a few years ago. Got the draw, thought it was a mistake on the systems part. Couple months later I found my notes, not the systems fault, I wrote down the number below the one I wanted.....

I like the LEH system. Been putting in for 19 years, had two moose draws in 5-04, and have shot zero moose. Strangely, I understand that the odds do NOT favour ANYONE....so I don't expect to get drawn!