Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
BCrams can you provide an example of a management plan lower WT numbers to limit predation on MD achieveing results of increased MD populations?
Yes I have read the theory behind this management plan but I have yet to see an example of this management theory achieving results
Personally have no issues with WT doe seasons in the strong WT populations in BC as I know the benefits it has on WT herds. I do not support it as a blanket management involving BC weaker WT populations
As for habitat it is without a doubt important but only a piece of the puzzle. Without addressing predator issues in theory will predator populations increase with the ungulate populations?
BCs WT management plan states the issue why WT populations need to be decreased is to lower predation. If we increase ungulate populations with habitat is it not creating the same issue with just another mix of ungulate species
You are correct no matter how much we increase ungulate numbers winter kill is an issue. But I have yet to see a management plan that beats winter kill. Stock piling wildlife is temporary at best but we will see up and down cycles according to what Mother Nature throws us each year
So yes we can keep low ungulate numbers in hopes of a smaller impact on bad years or you can run higher numbers knowing you will have a bad year they crash
Basically boomer years and a crash like happened in the peace if you manage for a higher population
Keep moderate to low ungulate numbers in hopes to limit the impact when the bad year comes
Either way you experience highs and lows but the extremes on both ends vary correct?
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fisher-Dude
I'd go to region 3. According to you, I can cancel all 3 tags in one short trip. Must be a shitload of deer around for me to be able to punch all those tags in such a short time.
Thanks for the tip. I've been wasting my time in region 8 where I spend way too much time HUNTING deer, and only pop one or two all season.
Maybe brush up on your reading comprehension, I said you could cancel all 3 of you deer tags. Chances of actually doing it, slim and none. It looks good though when you read the regs.
No you'll stay in region 8 as long as the masses stop for all the opportunity in region 3.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
An interesting read. Pretty sure it was brought up in the past.
http://www.sgrc.selkirk.ca/bioatlas/..._Mortality.pdf
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blacklab
Maybe brush up on your reading comprehension, I said you could cancel all 3 of you deer tags. Chances of actually doing it, slim and none. It looks good though when you read the regs.
No you'll stay in region 8 as long as the masses stop for all the opportunity in region 3.
R8 has the highest road density and is the most heavily hunted region in the entire province and could easily handle a whitetail season/bag limit like there is in R3.
Your issue clearly revolves around the fact that you don't like other hunters coming to your region. For a number of other posters, it's clear their issue isn't really with the antlerless season at all but instead personal feelings towards a few members.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HighCountryBC
R8 has the highest road density and is the most heavily hunted region in the entire province and could easily handle a whitetail season/bag limit like there is in R3.
Your issue clearly revolves around the fact that you don't like other hunters coming to your region. For a number of other posters, it's clear their issue isn't really with the antlerless season at all but instead personal feelings towards a few members.
This^^^, good post.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCrams
You were over thinking my post. Never did say let nature take its course. Short end of it is, heli control or wolf control most likely won’t happen. Focusing on habitat allows ungulates a higher survivability in a pred landscape as has been researched. Now in many areas under discussion in these posts, , if we can convince houndsmen to allow a higher cat harvest while working on habitat, mule deer numbers may have opportunity to rebound.
Ending elk season isn’t going to bring them back. 30 yrs of reg changes in BC especially moose has shown that.
And I'll suggest that my statements deserve more thinking.
You did say wolves and their prey will find an equilibrium.
I suggest that this is completely wrong.
What I wrote to you for consideration regards the misconceived concept in the existence of a balance in Nature.
Perhaps most importantly at this point is to remember that this "Balance" mindset, despite being false, is heavily used by anti-hunting proponents in arguing that we must allow non-human predation to carry on uninfluenced by man. This is part of the Compassionate Conservation model. We Must remain vigilant to avoid the promotion of a Balance in Nature if we are to be a part of it. To advance back to a societal environment where wildlife management may have a chance for success relies on our efforts to not ignore critical components of how Nature works. For maintaining hunt-able populations of ungulates, this management MUST include predator control. We must not close doors thus opportunities to advocate for the ability to effect these practices.
I suggest that our efforts to improve and maintain ungulate populations we should stop separating Habitat from other parts of of the ecosystem.
Lets link predators, prey and habitat as one.
With that preaching over.... :oops:
Alberta has many active examples where quality habitat was not sufficient to maintain viable elk populations in the presence of high wolf predation.
We also have areas where WT population reductions have been effected, and the result is still a continuing trend of fewer and fewer moose, elk and Mule deer.
Pre-written history also has examples of ungulate exterminations from vast landscapes despite the existence of great habitat.
Habitat alone, while a critical component, will NOT suffice to protect hunt-able populations of ungulates.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walking Buffalo
And I'll suggest that my statements deserve more thinking.
You did say wolves and their prey will find an equilibrium.
I suggest that this is completely wrong.
What I wrote to you for consideration regards the misconceived concept in the existence of a balance in Nature.
Perhaps most importantly at this point is to remember that this "Balance" mindset, despite being false, is heavily used by anti-hunting proponents in arguing that we must allow non-human predation to carry on uninfluenced by man. This is part of the Compassionate Conservation model. We Must remain vigilant to avoid the promotion of a Balance in Nature if we are to be a part of it. To advance back to a societal environment where wildlife management may have a chance for success relies on our efforts to not ignore critical components of how Nature works. For maintaining hunt-able populations of ungulates, this management MUST include predator control. We must not close doors thus opportunities to advocate for the ability to effect these practices.
I suggest that our efforts to improve and maintain ungulate populations we should stop separating Habitat from other parts of of the ecosystem.
Lets link predators, prey and habitat as one.
With that preaching over.... :oops:
Alberta has many active examples where quality habitat was not sufficient to maintain viable elk populations in the presence of high wolf predation.
We also have areas where WT population reductions have been effected, and the result is still a continuing trend of fewer and fewer moose, elk and Mule deer.
Pre-written history also has examples of ungulate exterminations from vast landscapes despite the existence of great habitat.
Habitat alone, while a critical component, will NOT suffice to protect hunt-able populations of ungulates.
This I agree with and this is widely ignored here in BC
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
“Lets link predators, prey and habitat as one.”
More or less what most of us are trying to say and communicate. All three need to happen but with wolves, most likely not, so we focus on reducing whitetail and work on habitat for Mule deer.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Can anyone provide an example of a management plan reducing WT numbers actually achieving the results of MD numbers increasing?
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blacklab
Maybe brush up on your reading comprehension, I said you could cancel all 3 of you deer tags. Chances of actually doing it, slim and none. It looks good though when you read the regs.
No you'll stay in region 8 as long as the masses stop for all the opportunity in region 3.
Okay, so if there's no chance of anyone filling their tags, then there's no reason to change any regulations, as doing so wouldn't make any difference to harvest.
See what happens when you try to suck and blow at the same time Bob?