Will R5 ever have an end to the 10 Day Closure and Concerns about it.

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Originally Posted by Rob Chipman

That is absolutely possible. I'm not sure how common it is but I ran across that exact story recently from the states. A big tom was getting chased off his kills by, iircc, both wolves and a bear.

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Might explain the difference in #'s, cat kills vs wolf and why the perplexing contrast.
As i said, the fresh wolf scat had deer hair in it.
But, there is no snow, and pretty open country (which a study say benefits ungulates, although i think its the reverse come
a heavy snowfall winter).
My cam showed basically no snow all winter thru spring and that past few were the same.
Not a benefit to wolves, imo to be successful in killing.

So, maybe some packs of wolves are just thieves but do force cats to do all the killing.
That might align/ make more sense, with the study #'s??????

Why not, Killer whale pods vary from pod to pod, as to what they eat, some salmon, the next seal and even some shark liver.
And some probably have adapted different ways to huntthe same prey.
Some wolf packs kill directly, and maybe some are just taking a kill over.

Might explain some of the wolf movement patterns i find in the snow.
They cut fresh deer tracks, but don't bother at all, no matter how many separate deer tracks they cross.
Its as if they move around the side of a mountain, to the downwind side, not appearing to look for scent on the ground,
but as if to see what scents are presenting themselves in the wind.
Maybe they are scouting for the scent of a fresh cat kill or hunter gut pile???

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Originally Posted by bighornbob

I remember years ago a bio was talking at the wild sheep society meeting. he said they had a collar on a female cougar with kittens. In one week she killed like 5-7 sheep. People were shocked that a cougar needed to eat that much. The bio said she didnt, but the 50 or so coyotes that found the her and the kill would. He said the cougars may get a few mouth fulls then the coyotes woudl chase them off the kill. She basically had to kill daily to survive as the yotes chased her off and ate the deer.

So I assume coyotes may be doing the same now too. Just another nail in the coffin for the deer population.



BHB

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You mean nail in the coffin for the cat, for it will be the one blamed for it all. I have said it before most dont have a clue what goes on out there.
Have found were the cats and wolves have killed coyotes, and they are needed to keep them in check. In some areas the most mule deer kills
we find are yearlings and they are killed by coyotes.

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Originally Posted by Rob Chipman

That is absolutely possible. I'm not sure how common it is but I ran across that exact story recently from the states. A big tom was getting chased off his kills by, iircc, both wolves and a bear.

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More common then most would think in some areas, and with the whitetail season on does in certain areas humans/hunters have caused a change in what the wolves and cats hunt as well.

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Originally Posted by Bugle M In

Well, i am not sure what the Ministry will do.
I am only stating what i am hearing in discussions with the 3 groups i mentioned in the OP.

You bring up MVR.
That's another thing that could compound further issues in MU's like i am speaking of.
Yes, some hunters will enjoy the MVR areas and go out on foot.
But many will now seek alternative areas from what was once their traditional areas to hunt, especially around Nov 11 week.
We just had new MVR's put in place in may of those new fires areas this year.
And some will find that now too hard to access their honey holes.
Which means they also now get pushed into another area.
So again, possibly more hunters being squeezed into the same areas, further compounding the problem already occurring even
furthermore????
IMO

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IF we could hunt spike fork moose in 5 that would keep some people out of 3, motor vehicle restrictions will just make more people hunt in the same easily accessible areas. Not all of us are young anymore, more guys would hunt MD in 5 if they took all the atv/orv restrictions off. There are a lot of goofy things in the regs that make people congregate in areas.

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Originally Posted by HappyJack

IF we could hunt spike fork moose in 5 that would keep some people out of 3, motor vehicle restrictions will just make more people hunt in the same easily accessible areas. Not all of us are young anymore, more guys would hunt MD in 5 if they took all the atv/orv restrictions off. There are a lot of goofy things in the regs that make people congregate in areas.

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FN’s won’t allow an Immy season in 5!! K

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Originally Posted by bighornbob

I remember years ago a bio was talking at the wild sheep society meeting. he said they had a collar on a female cougar with kittens. In one week she killed like 5-7 sheep. People were shocked that a cougar needed to eat that much. The bio said she didnt, but the 50 or so coyotes that found the her and the kill would. He said the cougars may get a few mouth fulls then the coyotes woudl chase them off the kill. She basically had to kill daily to survive as the yotes chased her off and ate the deer.

So I assume coyotes may be doing the same now too. Just another nail in the coffin for the deer population.

BHB

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Interesting.
As for the "nail in th coffin", not neccesarliy however.
If there is any truth to wolves stealing from cats and thus cats get the blame due to having to kill more often.
Then the issue then goes back to the wolves, not the cats.
Wolves as the big issue in many parts of BC, thus the bigger need for a proper cull.
Maybe the cats are thus inline with the right numbers, their population vs kills which might be acceptable.

Maybe it says that we cant have 2 super predators in the same territory hunting basically the same thing.
Sure there are Moose in there, but not enough to sustain wolves for very long.
Arrowstone for example is Cat Country, not wolf territory.

But again, there is a hunting factor due to R5 closure impacting some MU's.
Those that hunt in there for years, know that.
And, judging from some of the MD bucks taken in R5, doesn't look like R5 is suffering.
No more than any other Region!!!
Nothing so dramatic as the need to be closed while others are open, imo.

Well I saw a nice 4pt posted on IG this weekend that was from region 5. Very identifiable background, but maybe only because I’ve been there before too.

In terms of predators there was a study done on the Yellowstone wolves. They ended up changing the elk herd habits which negatively affected the cougars. The elk used to hang out in timber and cover, good for a cougar to ambush them. With the wolves, they tended to stay in open plains more. Furthermore the wolves would kill cougar kittens and cougars. Not to eat, just to get rid of the competition.

A mortality study on mule deer would be very interesting, especially to figure out the compensatory predation levels. I’m sure there are a lot of factors.

I was in R5 last year and got my first mulie there. A 2pt in any buck, of which I’m glad for the opportunity. Lots of other camps, and all of them had deer hanging. I can imagine limiting the any buck season in R5 would be more productive than the closure during the rut.

My vote is to wait for a study to find out more, and equalize the seasons between R3/R5 but given the grizzly bear situation I doubt it even matters for regulation making.

I saw 51 bucks last year in reg 5 this year 7. Including a very big 4x4 on the second to last day that winded us. I was hoping he'd be dumb but he was alone. Gonna haunt me until next year....I attribute the lack of animals to drought conditions all summer and fall, too warm, too windy. Weather just killed the hunting this year. Plus 7 and 30k winds today...didnt bother. First year since 2005 one of us didn't put something in the freezer. Considering we can't even buy meat in the store right now its a bad year to get skunked...

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Originally Posted by Livewire322

I agree with what you folks have said regarding YouTube/Instagram hunters doing wonders to increase pressure on areas.

Heck, I’m guilty of doing a little detective work on some videos myself to determine location - and if I can do it, others can too.

I’ve been mentoring a group of four greenhorns this year, and hunting with three more new hunters that have held licenses for a few seasons without much success. All of them comb the web during the week to watch hunting videos, the shared group messages we have are full of big buck photos pulled from Instagram, and MeatEater is the secondary topic of discussion behind weekend plans to find their own bucks… It’d be an over generalization for me to say all young people fit that profile of looking to social media for inspiration/motivation, but it sure seems like those videos are a big motivation for the people in the 20-30 age group that are on the fence about, or just getting into hunting - they might even be the reason these guys finally got into it.
So, as much as I’d like people to stop ‘doin it for the gram’, I’d rather they keep posting and just do more to obscure their location (mirror images to throw off Google Earth sleuths, and keep tight lipped).

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I would expect more from someone mentoring new hunters, It sounds like illegal guiding, you and your friends have reduced yourselves to the level of opportunistic parasites, losing all self respect as true and ethical hunters would have, because a true hunter develops his hunting plan exploring for himself where to hunt, you lost all notion of what is like to be a true hunter, you are cybernetic gut pile hunters. go home boy and learn yourself some self respect.

If thats an attempt at humour or sarcasm, you missed
Foghorn even does better