Calling all "sausage makers"

Question. Yesterday I made my first batch of bear pepperoni. Small batch to start to test the waters (well, I was told 10lbs is a "small batch"). Results were awesome, very happy with it, but pushing the meat through the sausage stuffer was a pain! Quite literally. After mixing in the cure with water, the meat became so tacky that it resembled sourdough. I got the job done but had to push so hard that I was getting worried of breaking the crank or some of the mechanics.
So, I was thinking next time just to add more water to make the "dough" flow more easy, and just spend more time in the smoker/oven to dry... Good idea or not? If not.. any other suggestions?

As always ,any suggestion is welcome...

Make bigger pepperoni.
the tiny casings are tough to push. More water helps. At least with a stuffer no damage is done to the meat, using a grinder just mushes the meat and ruins the batch. Pepperoni is slow to stuff, doing salami is almost instant out the tube.

You are bang on with adding more water.

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Originally Posted by Would Rather Be Fishing

Question. Yesterday I made my first batch of bear pepperoni. Small batch to start to test the waters (well, I was told 10lbs is a "small batch"). Results were awesome, very happy with it, but pushing the meat through the sausage stuffer was a pain! Quite literally. After mixing in the cure with water, the meat became so tacky that it resembled sourdough. I got the job done but had to push so hard that I was getting worried of breaking the crank or some of the mechanics.
So, I was thinking next time just to add more water to make the "dough" flow more easy, and just spend more time in the smoker/oven to dry... Good idea or not? If not.. any other suggestions?

As always ,any suggestion is welcome...

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"After mixing in the cure with water"

Are you talking about sodium nitrate? I would not want to put any chemicals or preservatives in my sausage.

Add more cold water to the meat and stuff it right away.

I take my bear to the Sausage Factory in Smithers BC, this year I got Teriyaki Peperoni made with extra pork fat....no mess, no fuss, vacuum packed and absolutely DELICIOUS

Gee, I didn't have any trouble with a stuffer either....LOL... YMMV :)

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Originally Posted by Would Rather Be Fishing

Question. Yesterday I made my first batch of bear pepperoni. Small batch to start to test the waters (well, I was told 10lbs is a "small batch"). Results were awesome, very happy with it, but pushing the meat through the sausage stuffer was a pain! Quite literally. After mixing in the cure with water, the meat became so tacky that it resembled sourdough. I got the job done but had to push so hard that I was getting worried of breaking the crank or some of the mechanics.
So, I was thinking next time just to add more water to make the "dough" flow more easy, and just spend more time in the smoker/oven to dry... Good idea or not? If not.. any other suggestions?

As always ,any suggestion is welcome...

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Water helps, but I make a lot of pepperoni and this is the main reason I got rid of my stiffer and use my grinder. I throw the auger, neck, cutter etc. in the freezer the night before and that helps. Mix in small batches (2-3 lbs.) and stuff, then repeat. Makes it easier to handle. This is if you use a kit. If you make it you make your own with no binder then the stuffer works.

Good luck

Cheers

SS

On the advice of the two pro's in the Valley, we added more ice water to the mix to address the same issue.
Worked like a charm.

Cheers,
Nog

Hmm actually took a sausage making course from sausage maker..my exam was make 300 pounds of sausage..
I like the ideas presented more water..I LOVE MATT'S SUGGESTION more ice water...
For the small diameter breakfast sausage and even more so peperoni..
lol
Sitka spruce has the voice of experience ..auger blades plates in freezer for few hours helps with all sausage..
You are trying to stuff very small diameter casings with thick mixture..Susan can't turn the cranks on breakfast sausage and peperoni I resorted to Cabelas 1 1/2 hp grinder it works. .amazing how much ice water is needed.
Cheers
Srupp

Typically 10lb meat 1 lb water

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Originally Posted by cdub

Typically 10lb meat 1 lb water

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I go 9lbs meat, 500ml Water with the Stuffer’s mix packs into 19mm casings for pepperoni. Two runs through a LEM 5lb stuffer. I like it better with the dehydrator over the smoker.

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Originally Posted by wildcatter

"After mixing in the cure with water"

Are you talking about sodium nitrate? I would not want to put any chemicals or preservatives in my sausage.

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I think that is how to get botulism. Bacteria needs to be killed thermally and internally with some form of preservative. Just saying most of the sausage making books I have read usually have a chapter on how not to kill people. To each there own.

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Originally Posted by cdub

Typically 10lb meat 1 lb water

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Ohhh really? Well that explains it.. I was well(!) below that

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Originally Posted by sakohunter

I think that is how to get botulism. Bacteria needs to be killed thermally and internally with some form of preservative. Just saying most of the sausage making books I have read usually have a chapter on how not to kill people. To each there own.

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Yeah i didn't want to open a can of worms, also I am a total beginner, but from all the research I have done (which includes a couple of courses on the subject and talking to a few butcher friends), there is really no safe way around using some source of nitrate in the process for sausages like salami and snack sticks (different than brats, for example) for that exact reason. All the so called "nitrate free" recipes still have some source of it in it when you look closely. The trick is not to usee too much but just the minimum amount necessary to have the desired effect.

Happy to be educated otherwise...

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Originally Posted by Would Rather Be Fishing

Yeah i didn't want to open a can of worms, also I am a total beginner, but from all the research I have done (which includes a couple of courses on the subject and talking to a few butcher friends), there is really no safe way around using some source of nitrate in the process for sausages like salami and snack sticks (different than brats, for example) for that exact reason. All the so called "nitrate free" recipes still have some source of it in it when you look closely. The trick is not to usee too much but just the minimum amount necessary to have the desired effect.

Happy to be educated otherwise...

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That is really the difference between fresh sausages and cured sausages. I read a really interesting article of the type of vegetable and its uptake of nitrates from the soil they are grown in. If I am planning on sharing my sausages with friends and family then they are made to the safest standards and measurements. Sounds like you are doing things the right way and learning from the right people. Enjoy your sausage making.

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Originally Posted by sakohunter

I think that is how to get botulism. Bacteria needs to be killed thermally and internally with some form of preservative. Just saying most of the sausage making books I have read usually have a chapter on how not to kill people. To each there own.

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I don't know much about sausage making, that's why I asked, but I know nitrates are a cancer causing agent.
There are some bacon available from the stores that doesn't have any.
My gardpa was an old school butcher, he never use any of this stuff and nobody ever got sick from what he made.
Wish he was still around so I could lear all he knew.

Fresh sausage will have no nitrates or nitrites, only salt. Smoked or dry cured will have the nitrites/nitrates added to deal with the curing of the meat. Some people try try celery for curing but you need to know the correct amount and in the end it is still a nitrate. If making smoked sausage or meats without these you are playing with fire in my opinion.

That's right, celery is naturally high nitrate which then gets converted to nitrite in the process.

From a website:

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USDA regulations require that meats cured with celery powder to be called “uncured” to distinguish them from conventionally cured products. Packages of meats cured with celery powder often say “No nitrates or nitrites added,” but also contain a statement “other than those which naturally occur in celery powder.” Many in the food industry believe a more accurate way to describe the products would be to call them “cured,” but still must comply with the regulations as written, which require them to be called “uncured.

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Originally Posted by wildcatter

I don't know much about sausage making, that's why I asked, but I know nitrates are a cancer causing agent.
There are some bacon available from the stores that doesn't have any.
My gardpa was an old school butcher, he never use any of this stuff and nobody ever got sick from what he made.
Wish he was still around so I could lear all he knew.

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Yeah there is a lot to learn from the old school butchers. There may have been additives that were used in the curing process that were not called nitrates but did the same thing as nitrates. I agree with limiting additives to the fresh sausages that I have made, but when they were cured sausages the bacteria was killed both thermally(over 165°F)and chemically(Prague powder). I am no expert but I listen to there advice.

one thing to keep in mind for cures at home is that you can use a very minimal amount compared to something store bought. anything mass produced is injected with the most preservatives and nitrites/nitrates possible, right up to the government allowed limit, simply for food safety. That meat is on a production line and they will do everything to stop any kind of bacteria or otherwise from spreading. When you cure at home, and you use good food handling and sanitation practices, you can reduce the amount of nitrite substantially. even at home you need to fight off the botulism.

also, it's technically not a ham or salami without that pink/red colour. that comes from the nitrites. through the curing process, the sodium nitrites bond with iron and oxygen in the meat, hence the pink colour (iron). the soduim nitrite is converted to nitric acid, so the real level of available nitrites is very low after the cure.

from what i understand, your body can process nitrites/nitrates just fine under a certain threshold. some foods, like celery and spinach, tend to have higher levels. but according to the state of california, everything causes cancer these days, even kale.

when i do a bacon cure, i don't include the prague powder #1 (sodium nitrite). i just put a generous amount of celery salt in with the mix, and it does have a slight effect on the colour. for my hams, you have to use the curing powder, but i reduce the amount of significantly, targeting 100ppm or thereabouts, and i've never had a not pink ham that didn't taste right.

here is an article with some sources and info about the curing process - https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...-meats-safely/
but i would agree, limiting sodium nitrite intake is a good idea.


as for the pepperoni, thanks for the tips. i will keep that in mind when i start stuffing my bear into casings too! let us know how yours turns out

10% water in your mix for pepperoni is a good rule of thumb, and you want to stuff immediately after mixing before the meat starts to "set". When measured properly the nitrites in your sausage should only be about 150 ppm (parts per million), and I believe commercial applications are required to be below 200 ppm. To put that in perspective, that is only about 2/3 cup sodium nitrite per 1000 kg of pepperoni mix! Prague powder #1 is actually a 15:1 mix of regular table salt with sodium nitrite to make it easier to measure the correct dosage. You only need to use 2.5-3.0g of Prague #1 cure per 1 kilogram of meat mix to hit 150 - 200 ppm.