Training to a higher level.
The dogs in this video are both young and not what would be considered a “finished” retriever. To the trained eye there are lots of errors being made here by both the handler and the dog. It will give an idea of what these animals are capable of with some time and effort.
The first dog is 2 1/2 and the second is 3 years. Both these dogs went on to have successful competitive careers.
The idea of “blind” retrieves is that the dog doesn’t know where the destination is. He is expected to take as direct a line as possible and not avoid “factors” such as thick cover and obey the instructions “casts” that the handler gives him. You’ll see how some do better at this than others depending on their level of training. Turn the volume up and you’ll hear some of the discussion around this.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=52t5kmwK6CU&feature=share
Re: Training to a higher level.
cool, always eager to please
Re: Training to a higher level.
I love watching dogs work, finished or not. Thanks for posting this up! In your opinion, Labguy,,,, do you feel pointers/versatiles can be cast in straight lines as well as labs because I find with my griff once the "Backs!" are over a 100 yards the path she takes will start to deviate. Her "Overs" aren't as straight as I would like them to be either. I have to wonder if it's because of the way they hunt upland birds when covering a field?
I also don't want my dog to automatically sit on the whistle like labs are trained to do unless I tell her to when I "whoa" (stop) her since you never want a pointer to sit with a stop (Whoa!) command while out hunting pheasants, chukars, quail, etc.
On or across water she will always come back to me with the bird the quickest way she can, which often means along the shoreline if that's where the bird ends up falling as opposed to swimming the bird back which I know would cost her points in a field trial. The thing is, I want to get her back into the blind as fast as possible so she doesn't affect our shooting if other birds fly toward our spread and for her that's often by land. If the bird is in the middle of the pond she always come back through the water.
As far as blind retrieves go, which is almost all the time when hunting out of our A frame blind, she will always end up finding the cripples I drop which is basically what I want since I have no plans to do hunt tests or field trials with her since there are no NAVDHA chapters in our province but just the same, it would be nice to clean up these aspects of retrieving.
Or in your opinion, would you even bother working on this if the plan is only to hunt the dog?
Re: Training to a higher level.
My .02 worth When I aquired "Yankee" he was a 4 year old fully trained field trials dog and had actually done pretty well in competitions. His brother finished in the top 10 in the US winning several stakes. Now as to hunting the ability to cast is imho a great tool something I did not have in my home schooled dogs until later and much consternation. On long blind retrieves as we have worked together he no longer sits but now stops and looks for direction when he is unsure. This I believe is a harmonizing of the cast due to us working together and him knowing that there "is" something there and he is not quite sure where.(He also takes the quickest way back something I believe cost him his FT ranking) In all my dogs (4 labs 1 golden) this took a lot of patience but with him it has been a great shortcut to where we are today. Things I did not like are his hunting with his eyes instead of his nose something I believe is learned from FT .You have a griff Brent and if she is like my GSP the nose is always working something I think the lab has learned from her as he now seems to use it far more than at first. Dogs are soo much a part of my hunting experience and some of that is making them your own,now the breaking from the blind is getting tiresome ,,,:)
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dutch
You have a griff Brent and if she is like my GSP the nose is always working something I think the lab has learned from her as he now seems to use it far more than at first. Dogs are soo much a part of my hunting experience and some of that is making them your own,now the breaking from the blind is getting tiresome ,,,:)
Yup, Sako always has her nose to the ground. Her bumpers have enough odour that when I've tossed them in heavier cover when she isn't looking when I send her I can't believe she can't see it because I can. She'll almost always use her nose to find it on a blind search.
Same thing in the field when we've dropped a duck in heavy cover (brambles). I'll send he in and she'll end up belly crawling her way out with it once she scented it because I don't think there's anyway that she sighted it.
As far as breaking on the shot is concerned, Sako will do that once in awhile, too, especially if she happens to see the bird being hit and fall to the ground. I know I can correct this by not being selfish when I go hunting. Need to think more about the dog. I like to shoot like most hunters do but if I REALLY want to make her 100% steady while hunting I should just leave my shotgun at home, focus on the training, and let my partner/s do all the shooting while on work on steadiness.
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dutch
My .02 worth When I aquired "Yankee" he was a 4 year old fully trained field trials dog and had actually done pretty well in competitions. His brother finished in the top 10 in the US winning several stakes. Now as to hunting the ability to cast is imho a great tool something I did not have in my home schooled dogs until later and much consternation. On long blind retrieves as we have worked together he no longer sits but now stops and looks for direction when he is unsure. This I believe is a harmonizing of the cast due to us working together and him knowing that there "is" something there and he is not quite sure where.(He also takes the quickest way back something I believe cost him his FT ranking) In all my dogs (4 labs 1 golden) this took a lot of patience but with him it has been a great shortcut to where we are today. Things I did not like are his hunting with his eyes instead of his nose something I believe is learned from FT .You have a griff Brent and if she is like my GSP the nose is always working something I think the lab has learned from her as he now seems to use it far more than at first. Dogs are soo much a part of my hunting experience and some of that is making them your own,now the breaking from the blind is getting tiresome ,,,:)
Good post except for the “nose” part. If a FT dog doesn’t have a good nose if won’t be very long in the game.
Blind retrieves are only a part of the game and a good FT dog needs to “mark” multiple falls (3 to 4 birds) up to 500 yards away and remember the area of each fall. On water tests this can take up to 25 minutes or longer to complete due to long swims and fighting heavy cover (bullrushes and other thick vegetation) as well as having a memory capable of remembering where the last bird fell after 10 or 15 minutes completing the first 2 retrieves. Once it gets to the area of the fall it requires a good nose to find the downed bird in that heavy cover.
Really something you need to see to fully appreciate.
Re: Training to a higher level.
That could be a part of not being in the "game" for a while maybe out of practice so taking the easy way out.When hunting he does use his nose but compared to the GSP not nearly as much but hey,I guess they are different breeds built to do different things. The retriever drive always amazes me and after watching him bulldoze through blackberries to get a pheasant with blood everywhere I sometimes feel bad for even sending him. Good to chat about our 4 legged friends as I say would not be the same without them ,probably would hunt far fewer days D:)
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dutch
Good to chat about our 4 legged friends as I say would not be the same without them ,probably would hunt far fewer days D:)
I know you hunt mostly fields, Mike, but when you have your entire decoy spread set up in water as deep as your waist surrounding by thigh high marsh grass a good dog is worth his weight in gold. Without one it wouldn't surprise me at all if a guy lost half the birds he was able to drop,,,,,and forget about cripples.
Labguy,,,,do these field trials ever take place in the lower mainland? If they did, I'd definitely be into going to watch these dogs do their thing. Is the public welcome to attend or do you need to have a dog in the running?
Re: Training to a higher level.
There are several in the LM and VI and public is always welcome. Look on BC Retriever News under events. If there is one you’d like to come to I could meet you there and show you around.
Re: Training to a higher level.
^^^^ sounds good. I would't go to the island for one but if there was one in the lower mainland and I was free I'd take it in.
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dutch
When I aquired "Yankee" he was a 4 year old fully trained field trials dog and had actually done pretty well in competitions.
Where did you get the dog?
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mastercaster
I know you hunt mostly fields, Mike, but when you have your entire decoy spread set up in water as deep as your waist surrounding by thigh high marsh grass a good dog is worth his weight in gold. Without one it wouldn't surprise me at all if a guy lost half the birds he was able to drop,,,,,and forget about cripples.
Labguy,,,,do these field trials ever take place in the lower mainland? If they did, I'd definitely be into going to watch these dogs do their thing. Is the public welcome to attend or do you need to have a dog in the running?
Now I do but I hunted deep water in Burns Bog for thirty years and burned out 2 labs and a golden retriever doing it. Every retrieve was a swim in something akin to soup so all my dogs had to learn some sort of signalling which they did.Yankee actually works well in deep water as he does look back something my others would only do after throwing dummies for a couple years. As to getting cripples in water they will always head to the bank, and usually hole up there. Take a walk around if you can far easier :)
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mastercaster
^^^^ sounds good. I would't go to the island for one but if there was one in the lower mainland and I was free I'd take it in.
If you do attend and plan to sit in the gallery watching dogs, be sure to wear a darker shirt or jacket as to not distract the dog from it’s handler while it is working in the field.
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dutch
When I aquired "Yankee" he was a 4 year old fully trained field trials dog
Hey, Mike, have you received a letter from the politically correct police saying you need to change the name of your dog yet?? Americans may find it rather offensive. I heard a guy down in the States had to change his black lab's name from "Blackie" to something else just recently.
Just kidding! But it wouldn't surprise me at all to see it happen since Elmer Fudd cartoons and half of Dr. Suess's characters are no longer acceptable. lol
Re: Training to a higher level.
Bwahaha yes funny thing he is from Georgia ,somebody was having fun ,:)
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dutch
Now I do but I hunted deep water in Burns Bog for thirty years and burned out 2 labs and a golden retriever doing it. Every retrieve was a swim in something akin to soup so all my dogs had to learn some sort of signalling which they did.Yankee actually works well in deep water as he does look back something my others would only do after throwing dummies for a couple years. As to getting cripples in water they will always head to the bank, and usually hole up there. Take a walk around if you can far easier :)
And don't forget the times they had to break ice also.
Re: Training to a higher level.
Yes the great days of the past...:cry:
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
labguy
The dogs in this video are both young and not what would be considered a “finished” retriever. To the trained eye there are lots of errors being made here by both the handler and the dog. It will give an idea of what these animals are capable of with some time and effort.
The first dog is 2 1/2 and the second is 3 years. Both these dogs went on to have successful competitive careers.
The idea of “blind” retrieves is that the dog doesn’t know where the destination is. He is expected to take as direct a line as possible and not avoid “factors” such as thick cover and obey the instructions “casts” that the handler gives him. You’ll see how some do better at this than others depending on their level of training. Turn the volume up and you’ll hear some of the discussion around this.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=52t5kmwK6CU&feature=share
How did i miss this! Little blast from that past. That digger dog was pretty good considering the handler!
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mastercaster
^^^^ sounds good. I would't go to the island for one but if there was one in the lower mainland and I was free I'd take it in.
Count me in on that as well.
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lorneparker1
How did i miss this! Little blast from that past. That digger dog was pretty good considering the handler!
No poop. He was definitely handicapped by the dipshit standing beside him...
Re: Training to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Isaiah
Count me in on that as well.
Go to BC Retriever News and look under schedule. The FT,s are in blue script. Pick a date and let me know if you’ll be there and I can meet you and show you around a bit....
