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Mule deer study in the Okanagan
There is a mule deer study going on in the Okanagan as to why the mule deer are dying. One has to wonder why the any mule deer buck season in region 8 Okanagan is not shut down. I have not hunted mule deer in the Okanagan for years as the numbers, in my opinion, are not there.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Link to story here: https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelown...r-mystery-case
Quote:
Wildlife scientists and conservationists are trying to solve the mystery of why mule deer across the Okanagan Valley are dying.
Jesse Zeman, director of the Fish & Wildlife Restoration Program, says the project is in its first year and is the largest collaborative project that B.C. has ever seen.
“We want to know how they are moving across the landscape, what is killing them, and how the habitat is affecting our deer population,” said Zeman.
“We don’t know what’s driving the mortalities so far but that is why we hire these great people from UBCO and the University of Idaho.”
Sophie Gilbert, assistant professor from the University of Idaho and one of her students are in the Okanagan to investigate.
“Nobody can really tell us the reason,” she said.
Gilbert says the original herd they were concerned about was the Boundary herd.
“That historically was the most productive herd in the province and now it is just a shadow of its former self,” said Gilbert.
Deer survival has been really low, much lower than expected, in the boundary area according to Zeman.
The partners in the project include the B.C. Wildlife Federation, B.C. Fish and Wildlife branch, government staff, Okanagan National Alliance, the University of Idaho and UBCO.
“Mule deer are kind of an icon in southern B.C., there has been a lot of concern over the species,” said Zeman. “We’ve been hearing about this since the 1970's.”
Gilbert says they have a bunch of different ideas about what might be driving the decline.
“The absence of fire from the ecosystem is one of those potential drivers, we also see a lot more white-tailed deer in the system they prefer disturbed habitats, old forest. White-tail deer feed predators, predators also eat mule deer,” she said.
Wildfires produce a lot of deer food as the regrowth provides high quality and abundant food.
“I know for people that are hunters that is their food, they go out and hunt mule deer and they want them to be sustainable. And the other thing is that they are an indicator that shows us that we are doing right by our ecosystems,” said Zeman.
As a group, they will collar 30 adult does and 20 fawns per year in their study area.
The deer will be GPS collared so they know where they are moving and health samples are taken.
“We checked to see if the deer was pregnant, in this case, she was. She had two fetuses, two babies and we checked overall body condition,” said Zeman.
The project will take a total of five years and then will give a recommendation on how to restore the mule deer habitat and population
“Our first step is to identify which of these various factors on the landscape are driving the declines and will help stop the decline of mule deer and hopefully bring them back,” said Gilbert.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walksalot
There is a mule deer study going on in the Okanagan as to why the mule deer are dying. One has to wonder why the any mule deer buck season in region 8 Okanagan is not shut down. I have not hunted mule deer in the Okanagan for years as the numbers, in my opinion, are not there.
Walksalot, have you looked at the data on pregnancy rates with this project?
It's almost 100%, and, a good percentage are sporting twins.
(they do field ultrasounds on captured deer)
If MD are showing almost 100% pregnancy how will closing any buck seasons help make more deer?
Will they get even more pregnant?
It will only impact age on bucks.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walksalot
There is a mule deer study going on in the Okanagan as to why the mule deer are dying. One has to wonder why the any mule deer buck season in region 8 Okanagan is not shut down. I have not hunted mule deer in the Okanagan for years as the numbers, in my opinion, are not there.
While there are buck to doe ratios below the target levels of 20:100 in some MUs in the OK, early results of the study have shown that sperm supply is not an issue (very high pregnancy rates).
Provincially we saw some changes last year reducing the mule buck limit to one buck in the central and southern regions. There is no plan to change the any buck season at this point until the wide spread reduced buck limit proves ineffective.
Areas in the east koots and boundary region have gone to a 4 pt only season and have watched their mule deer numbers continue to go down
SSS
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
It's not just Reg 8. Reg 3 is struggling as well. Logan lake is a sanctuary for Mule deer. Last fall there was hardly any deer around. My buddy is born and raised there and he is as in tune with the wildlife as anyone could be. Normally trees around town would be scraped up during the rut but this fall the deer were just not there. I also know a hunting guide and he says mulie #s are down 70% compared to historical levels around Kamloops. The WT are taking a hit as well. He has over 20 cams out and says he didn't get on buck over 160 last fall and saw few bigger deer.
My buddy hunted private land near Kamloops near the end of Nov and saw over 50 MD in one day but only a few were small bucks.
Scary shit.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ourea
Walksalot, have you looked at the data on pregnancy rates with this project?
It's almost 100%, and, a good percentage are sporting twins.
(they do field ultrasounds on captured deer)
If MD are showing almost 100% pregnancy how will closing any buck seasons help make more deer?
Will they get even more pregnant?
It will only impact age on bucks.
I see the same thing in R3, in the mu's I hunt.
But, with all that, I still don't see an increase in population (and I think they could sustain higher #'s there)
There is something happening between December, when al these fawns still exist, and after the hunting season!, till the following season.
Maybe it's between Dec and Apr/May.
I am just glad to see that people recognize there is an issue.
And I am glad they have some "quality" people looking into it.
However, I wish they could have collared more deer!, BUT, requires more funding!!??
Looking forward to seeing the results.
All I heard is, there was some "oddity" to a deer's movement etc!?
Something about "not expecting" what they were doing.
Again, shutting down a season might show some "short term" benefits.
But again, if the issue is "not hunting as per their decline", then "long term", we have achieved sweet F'all,
and then you will see their #'s further decline, and no hunting...ever...because you haven't
"addressed the issue that has created the decline"!
Seen that in the EK with elk.
Not addressing the "real issues" is what has screwed up all the game pop's in the Province.
Not hunting
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Coyotes, wolves, cougar, bear, vehicle strikes....deal with the issues.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Wildfires, loss of habitat due to forestry and increased predator numbers seem to be major factors.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bubbacanuck
Wildfires, loss of habitat due to forestry and increased predator numbers seem to be major factors.
As stated in the article, fires help wildlife.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
all I know on the matter is that when up there last year, we went to a few vineyards and a park on the far side of the lake. I saw 7 or 8 mule deer does and 3 of them were injured on the back end...not sure if it was hit by cars, attacked by dogs, or attacked by predators but it looked like they may have been attacked while giving birth and had their fawns taken as there were no fawns in the groups of 2 or 3 that I saw....I know this anecdotal info means nothing but it did strike me as a bit disturbing seeing so many wounded/injured does
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
On the east side of Penticton there was a pretty substantial migration corridor where there used to be an abundance of mule deer pass through now they have all but vanished.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
My question is how can they have let the declines go for this long without research and action!!!???
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wideopenthrottle
all I know on the matter is that when up there last year, we went to a few vineyards and a park on the far side of the lake. I saw 7 or 8 mule deer does and 3 of them were injured on the back end...not sure if it was hit by cars, attacked by dogs, or attacked by predators but it looked like they may have been attacked while giving birth and had their fawns taken as there were no fawns in the groups of 2 or 3 that I saw....I know this anecdotal info means nothing but it did strike me as a bit disturbing seeing so many wounded/injured does
coyotes at birthing, car strikes, fence mishaps
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I have participated in collaring some of the deer and this study is beginning to reveal some important information. It will only continue to do so as it continues. AS for collaring more deer, I believe they are doing so this year. I think it is fawns if I remember correctly. As for the fertilization rates, its true that almost all does are impregnated and carrying twins. The buck ratio is where they are targeting, but we are not seeing the mature buck cohort in the population. I love seeing big muley bucks, and it appears they are harder to come by than ever before in region 8. I am all for providing opportunity, but I would love to see more big mature bucks either wandering the woods or being taken by lucky hunters.
I believe we can both provide opportunity and manage for some bigger studs in the bush by reducing the month long general open season from Oct 1st - Oct 31, down to Oct 1 - Oct 15th. In talking to a reputable taxidermist in town, he has records that show a drastic reduction in mature bucks come into his shop since the season went from ending on the 15th to ending on the 31st. His argument has some merit. He believes in the later half of October, those young immature bucks that lack experience will pair up with doe groups before the mature bucks in hopes of beating them to the breeding. That lack of experience results in a disproportionate number of young immature deer being harvested before they reach that 5-6 years needed to mature. JMO, but I think it would lead to better representation of bigger bucks. I also agree with SSS, in that in light of the recent reduction to the provincial bag limit on mule deer, we will not see any further restrictions until we begin to get an idea of how the recent changes affect both deer numbers and hunter habits.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
The north Ok has lost 2 or 3 good houndsman in the last few years. Is anybody picking up the slack?
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brez
My question is how can they have let the declines go for this long without research and action!!!???
THEY need money, and a lot of it.
Collars, helicopters and expert staff are not free.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ourea
THEY need money, and a lot of it.
Collars, helicopters and expert staff are not free.
Yup and the recent release of the provincial budget is the status quo......sweet FA for wildlife! It's really too bad, but its becoming a broken record.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Seeker Quote;I believe we can both provide opportunity and manage for some bigger studs in the bush by reducing the month long general open season from Oct 1st - Oct 31, down to Oct 1 - Oct 15th
If they reduced the any buck dates in the north Okanogan down to Oct 15th i think there would be a drastic drop off of hunters even bothering to head into the bush to hunt.The mulies dont even start to rut untill the last couple days of Oct and are held up deep in the bush and basically nocturnal until then.I put in 10 days dawn to dusk hunting this last season from the 20th of Oct to the 31st without seeing one buck until shooting a nice 2-point the last day on the 31st,he was well into rut,swollen neck and beating up some scrub brush when encountered
.We were constantly on mulie doe's right thru and many older doe's were without yearlings from the previous yr.Preditation i believe is whats really affecting numbers,we have wolf tracks constantly ,even walking down the road near home the last week...
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Predators, predators, predators.....funny how the cariboo herds started to miraculously rebound soon after implementing wolf culls. Who would have ever thought ? Hmmm
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Takla
Seeker Quote;I believe we can both provide opportunity and manage for some bigger studs in the bush by reducing the month long general open season from Oct 1st - Oct 31, down to Oct 1 - Oct 15th
If they reduced the any buck dates in the north Okanogan down to Oct 15th i think there would be a drastic drop off of hunters even bothering to head into the bush to hunt.The mulies dont even start to rut untill the last couple days of Oct and are held up deep in the bush and basically nocturnal until then.I put in 10 days dawn to dusk hunting this last season from the 20th of Oct to the 31st without seeing one buck until shooting a nice 2-point the last day on the 31st,he was well into rut,swollen neck and beating up some scrub brush when encountered
.We were constantly on mulie doe's right thru and many older doe's were without yearlings from the previous yr.Preditation i believe is whats really affecting numbers,we have wolf tracks constantly ,even walking down the road near home the last week...
Not that I want to take away from the thinking here, as I do believe younger bucks do group up with does "much sooner"
Sadly, this is all I saw in Novemer as well, on a couple of trips, fyi (4 separate 2pt's, all with atleast 6 does in each group)
BUT.....
I thought with the 1MD LIMIT this past season being introduced, that I would see "LESS HUNTERS"..NOPE!!!
I actually saw more hunters during the Novemer/Dec 4 point season, especially the November long weekend.
What I am say is, some who may have taken 2 bucks in previous seasons, 1 being a meat buck I suspect, and then
the other to be a big boy attempt, have made a decision to "not hunt meat bucks"....
It would be very interesting to see how many "less" younger bucks were taken who are not 4 points are harvested in the
next few years "due to the 1 MD limit Change"!
I am betting due to this new limit, less young bucks will be taken.
We may "not need to shorten" that any buck season!!
I have no clue what kind of stats are out there, as to MD harvest, and how many are taken that are not 4 point as
compared to 4 pt in a season.
Maybe they don't exist???
I think the 1 MD change has already changed some hunters thinking and is changing what age bucks are taken because of it.
I bet you there is going to be a decline in the amount of any bucks harvested, as some hunters will take more chances looking for the big one!
I think people...hunters need to realize that we just had a significant regulation change!!!
Does anyone expect that in 1 season of that change there is going to be dramatic changes to what you see out in the woods??!!
Give it some time folks.
More important right now is to figure out what is happening to the "offspring".
Why are they not there by "next season" after this season has ended???
FIX that, and then you will see a difference out there for the better!
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bugle M In
Not that I want to take away from the thinking here, as I do believe younger bucks do group up with does "much sooner"
Sadly, this is all I saw in Novemer as well, on a couple of trips, fyi (4 separate 2pt's, all with atleast 6 does in each group)
BUT.....
I thought with the 1MD LIMIT this past season being introduced, that I would see "LESS HUNTERS"..NOPE!!!
I actually saw more hunters during the Novemer/Dec 4 point season, especially the November long weekend.
What I am say is, some who may have taken 2 bucks in previous seasons, 1 being a meat buck I suspect, and then
the other to be a big boy attempt, have made a decision to "not hunt meat bucks"....
It would be very interesting to see how many "less" younger bucks were taken who are not 4 points are harvested in the
next few years "due to the 1 MD limit Change"!
I am betting due to this new limit, less young bucks will be taken.
We may "not need to shorten" that any buck season!!
I have no clue what kind of stats are out there, as to MD harvest, and how many are taken that are not 4 point as
compared to 4 pt in a season.
Maybe they don't exist???
I think the 1 MD change has already changed some hunters thinking and is changing what age bucks are taken because of it.
I bet you there is going to be a decline in the amount of any bucks harvested, as some hunters will take more chances looking for the big one!
I think people...hunters need to realize that we just had a significant regulation change!!!
Does anyone expect that in 1 season of that change there is going to be dramatic changes to what you see out in the woods??!!
Give it some time folks.
More important right now is to figure out what is happening to the "offspring".
Why are they not there by "next season" after this season has ended???
FIX that, and then you will see a difference out there for the better!
I would agree with this ^^^
It will take time to see results from the change but they should be positive for population and hunting quality in the long run. I am a believer in the theory buck to doe ratios have an impact on fawn health but steps are taken to improve ratios
Fawn survival rate and factors involved are something I hope comes out in this study and I think we all expect predators are a factor
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
It is scientifically proven that roads cause a significant behavioural change in wild animals and they make it far easier for all predators regardless of how many legs they have to be successful. Check out the road density in the province. Do you think it was always that way?
Winter range is critical to ungulates. Where did it all go?
Lack of fire on the landscape. It wasn't always that way...
These three things are in my opinion, some of the more important issues for our wildlife problems in the province. They are all caused by people, period.
We cannot change what has happened in the past, but we can learn from it and change how we impact the landscape moving forward.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I do have a thought/suggestion that might work/help (you be the judge)
It's obvious there is a lot of "finger pointing" going on even between hunters as to issue, whether it be Predator/Habitat/Land Usage/Hunter Success, and it is creating a big divide between us, and that is not going to help to go forward, especially when hunting as a Tradition is on the line more and more everyday.
So, what could help!!??
I am not a big fan of the hunter harvest questionnaire, not because i don't want to fill it out, but because it is too vague.
Yes, it will tell you how many days one spends in the field, and where and the % of success, and male or female, but that's it.
So, why don't we have a "Mandatory Tooth Inspection for Any Harvested Species"??
Think about it.
If successful, we can download the pdf with the pertanent questions.
Where, When, even how (bow/rifle), Days, Sex and Antler Points.
A tooth will tell us what we are "actually harvesting".
Just because a buck is 4 pt, is he 4 years old, or 10 years old??
Especially females, are they young, 11/2 year old or 10 years old?
This can tell us a lot.
It can tell us what age of animals are really being harvested on average.
We can see by point size what hunters are targeting.
Just because someone took a buck in Oct, doesn't tell you his point size, let alone if he is young or old.
Same goes for females, are most of them young or are we harvesting old ones who have a lot of survival experience.
Heck, we could even maybe tell if some areas are holding males that have a defective gene that never reach 4 pt (deer) or
6pt (elk) status.
We cant tell from our current questionnaire any of these things.
It will never tell us how these species are mainly meeting their demise, but we can help find out what we as hunters
are harvesting rather than speculating!
There is a few issues with this.
The FN don't even tell us now what they harvest let alone get them to enter into a compulsory tooth inspection, but wouldn't it be nice if they would.
Secondly, such a program, with teeth from all species harvested in BC would cost a lot of money.
But there would be some great info for Bio's to use which in the end would benefit all of us, imo.
Might help put some arguments to rest once and for all??
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I would think the biggest danger to mule deer numbers in reg 8 is the continuation of development on winter range.....where I hang in central reg 8, numbers I see are good, from my observations anyway..
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Bugle M In
It's worthless data for the most part if numbers keep trending downward.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ourea
Bugle M In
It's worthless data for the most part if numbers keep trending downward.
Yes, I know and you are correct, we need to find out what is causing the actual decline...fully agree.
I was just trying to put to rest the division as to if issues are hunters or other.
Tooth inspection might aid in the end, especially for hunters know what other hunters are "actually doing"!
To get rid of this speculation on "oh, we should close this, or we should introduce this reg change etc"
Lets face it FisherDude gets bashed for some of the Stats.
Reason being, the stats are a bit vague.
Not his fault, but again, shows hunters bashing hunters.
This would help the "hunting issues" and what changes might be needed.
The major declines are most certainly outside factors....so I am with you!!
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I've mentioned this on my Whitetail thread.......
if you can't answer 'who, what, why, where and when you will have a hard time consistently killing better animals.
This project is going to answer a lot of questions replacing educated guesses with quantified data.
Better decision making will result.
Where do these captured MD go after leaving their winter range?
How far do they travel?
What are the travel routes, do they avoid certain roadways etc?
What is causing the high mortality specific to each fatality.
When do most of the fatalities happen?
When exactly do they move the most?
Pretty exciting when you think about it.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I'm no expert but this seems like a fawn survival problem to me. If the buck to doe ratios are where they should be and the does are all pregnant and some with twins what else makes sense? For a population to increase you need more does of breeding age. For a population to decrease and to decrease rapidly you need a declining and ageing(barren) doe population. If that's happening in conjunction with poor fawn survival, populations will drop fast no matter how many bucks you save.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keta1969
I'm no expert but this seems like a fawn survival problem to me. If the buck to doe ratios are where they should be and the does are all pregnant and some with twins what else makes sense? For a population to increase you need more does of breeding age. For a population to decrease and to decrease rapidly you need a declining and ageing(barren) doe population. If that's happening in conjunction with poor fawn survival, populations will drop fast no matter how many bucks you save.
100% correct.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
The way the mule deer disappeared goes, in my opinion, far beyond predation. Something had decimated the mule deer population and we had better find out what pretty soon. Had a discussion with a forester and we talked about the economic value of our forest and how logging can enhance habitat but I pointed out the poor buggers need a place to hide. As pointed out subdivisions on lower elevations above the valley bottoms are really impacting their winter ranges. My wife is sick of me commenting at every advertisement for residential subdivisions with spectacular views of the valley.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ourea
I've mentioned this on my Whitetail thread.......
if you can't answer 'who, what, why, where and when you will have a hard time consistently killing better animals.
This project is going to answer a lot of questions replacing educated guesses with quantified data.
Better decision making will result.
Where do these captured MD go after leaving their winter range?
How far do they travel?
What are the travel routes, do they avoid certain roadways etc?
What is causing the high mortality specific to each fatality.
When do most of the fatalities happen?
When exactly do they move the most?
Pretty exciting when you think about it.
Yes it is.
I think back in the day, we had an idea of their migration habits.
But, lets face it, there has been a ton of changes to our landscapes in many ways.
I think we will see some of those old ways of MD migration etc have changed.
What is happening to fawns is extremely important, and I think we well see that mortality is happening in a lot of
the year where we don't hunt.
And for many, "what" is causing the mortality, especially on HBC where many different opinions exist.
But then, I hope there is money to make the necessary changes!!???????????????????
And will it be applied, not just another study that gets tossed into the storage cabinet!
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
When a lot of hunters think of helping wildlife numbers they default to regulation as a magic wand that will help with recovery.
Here is something to chew on......
The boundary country has had an increase in hunting restrictions, rd closures, 4 point only etc, yet numbers continue to fall dramatically.
Simply put, more restrictions allowing the majority of overall bucks not to be hunted has done nothing to slow the decline in numbers and buck to doe ratios.
Harvest data from the region.
Decrease in harvest yet still a decrease in numbers.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attach...tid=7335&stc=1
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bugle M In
Not that I want to take away from the thinking here, as I do believe younger bucks do group up with does "much sooner"
Sadly, this is all I saw in Novemer as well, on a couple of trips, fyi (4 separate 2pt's, all with atleast 6 does in each group)
BUT.....
I thought with the 1MD LIMIT this past season being introduced, that I would see "LESS HUNTERS"..NOPE!!!
I actually saw more hunters during the Novemer/Dec 4 point season, especially the November long weekend.
What I am say is, some who may have taken 2 bucks in previous seasons, 1 being a meat buck I suspect, and then
the other to be a big boy attempt, have made a decision to "not hunt meat bucks"....
It would be very interesting to see how many "less" younger bucks were taken who are not 4 points are harvested in the
next few years "due to the 1 MD limit Change"!
I am betting due to this new limit, less young bucks will be taken.
We may "not need to shorten" that any buck season!!
I have no clue what kind of stats are out there, as to MD harvest, and how many are taken that are not 4 point as
compared to 4 pt in a season.
Maybe they don't exist???
I think the 1 MD change has already changed some hunters thinking and is changing what age bucks are taken because of it.
I bet you there is going to be a decline in the amount of any bucks harvested, as some hunters will take more chances looking for the big one!
I think people...hunters need to realize that we just had a significant regulation change!!!
Does anyone expect that in 1 season of that change there is going to be dramatic changes to what you see out in the woods??!!
Give it some time folks.
More important right now is to figure out what is happening to the "offspring".
Why are they not there by "next season" after this season has ended???
FIX that, and then you will see a difference out there for the better!
The summer of 2017 was the driest on record. The winter of 2017/18 was long and tough.
We all know that summer moisture plays a key roll in fawn survival. Add the tough winter and I would bet that we lost a significant portion of the fawns....which the male portion of this would be the yearling bucks in the fall of 2018.
I’m guessing that all those hunters that you saw in the late fall were ones that had a hard time finding a yearling 2 pt to shoot.
SSS
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walksalot
The way the mule deer disappeared goes, in my opinion, far beyond predation. Something had decimated the mule deer population and we had better find out what pretty soon. Had a discussion with a forester and we talked about the economic value of our forest and how logging can enhance habitat but I pointed out the poor buggers need a place to hide. As pointed out subdivisions on lower elevations above the valley bottoms are really impacting their winter ranges. My wife is sick of me commenting at every advertisement for residential subdivisions with spectacular views of the valley.
Wildlife needs 2 key components to survive let alone thrive.
1) Habitat
2) Security
(One can drill down further under these two headings with factors such as habitat fragmentation, resource extraction, loss of winter range, preds etc.)
And Walksalot, we are destroying both.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Thats what i was thinking as well,heavy snow pack in the Okanogan is detrimental to deer escapeing preditation from cyottes and wolves,especially the young.I hunt moose as well up in region 7 and see lots of doe yearling pairs when out yet our N.Okanogan hunt after moose last yr was almost devoid of seeing yearlings with doe's.Almost ALL dry doe's we encountered.One area in region 8 outside of westwold we seen at least 5-6 dry doe's per day no fawns.Anyone posting on this thread if you dont mind shareing if you had success juring any buck season up to oct 31st so we can get a feel for success rates.
Oct 31 harvested a tall 2-point
Who else had success?
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Takla
Thats what i was thinking as well,heavy snow pack in the Okanogan is detrimental to deer escapeing preditation from cyottes and wolves,especially the young.I hunt moose as well up in region 7 and see lots of doe yearling pairs when out yet our N.Okanogan hunt after moose last yr was almost devoid of seeing yearlings with doe's.Almost ALL dry doe's we encountered.One area in region 8 outside of westwold we seen at least 5-6 dry doe's per day no fawns.Anyone posting on this thread if you dont mind shareing if you had success juring any buck season up to oct 31st so we can get a feel for success rates.
Oct 31 harvested a tall 2-point
Who else had success?
In the early youth/bow season in reg 3 with my daughter this was the first year that we never saw a single muley buck. We always see yearling bucks ranging from several to 12-15 in a couple days.
Most were yearlings but we see the odd group of older bucks if we are patient and look hard enough.
Last year.... squat
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I don't get as hunters why so many are not open to this research and studies AND actually implementing it and are so open to take away opportunities without thinking of other measures. Last I checked and the people I talk to the mule deer population in region 4 is still declining.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
I have been 4-5 days per week, (work related) in a classic Mule deer wintering area in region 3.
Not alot of snow, only 12"-20" of snow, a few Moose tracks and increasing this past week, not sure why.....
Mule deer are sparse although also increasing sign and I think they are simply moving down because of the recent snow we have had.
Odd, no wolf sign but I bet it increases as more game moves in there from the higher ridges, a few cougars but no big deal.
When I was logging in the same area 25 years ago I would see 10-15 deer or more, everyday at this time of year and tracks everywhere.
There is a road every 1-2km and I can see for miles, basically there is FA for game, hasn't been a fire in there in my lifetime, bugs killed all the trees too, no fires will do that.
I think we will pull out of it and it will be good times again so long as we are not regulated to an end....
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Sadly I think some have just be trained to think that more regs are the only thing that will help wildlife.
In one way, you cant blame them because for years now, that was the only action left to give us.
For years the money has never been there and talking to some Bio's from days gone by (now retired), a lot of the few
projects they did in the day that were beneficial dried up and stop happening for one reason or other.
Since then, we've been on our own.
Everything changing all around us year in and year out, and all we ever had to address it was with regs.
Short term they can help areas were a species might be hurting.
But long term, they never stand the test of time....proven over and over, again and again.
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Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan
Aside from more and more loss of winter range due to development in reg 8, I should also state that I'm hearing of an increase in cougar population - and we know that the cats will make a big dent in mule deer pops...these factors along with lack of burns I believe are the biggest contributing factors to mule deer declines in reg 8..