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endtimerwithabow
04-12-2006, 04:25 PM
I am new to bowhunting and last year was my first year. I have a pse II 60-70 lbs older but a nice bow shot 5-6 times before I got my hands on it my arrows are aluminum the heavest ones I can shoot with this bow they are easton 2315 lite XX75 camo hunter. I find they break and get bent ( I do need more practise) easily, are the carbon arrows harder to damage and do they come as heavy as the ones I'm currently using?

I havent harveted any large game yet but this year I want a early season Elk and a Whitetail. My son and I are shotn just about every day my grouping is about 7-8" and gettn smaller. I apprecite any and all adivce.

Thnx Doug

cowboy-up69
04-12-2006, 04:30 PM
Im new to bow hunting to, so Im curious to what other people say on here! I like my carbon arrows, but they break pretty easy when u hit rocks with them!! ;)

Kirby
04-12-2006, 04:33 PM
Carbons are much stronger than Aluminum. The only thing to watch is if you hit a rock, etc, Carbons can fracture, but not visibly show the damage. So you just Take it, bend it, and listen to it. I use to shoot Aluminums, and now shoot nothing but carbons(Gold tip 5575 Hunters) and love them.

Kirby

mtnmax
04-12-2006, 04:53 PM
I am new to bow hunting as well. This year will be my first hunt for deer with it. I have an older bow - Martin 2500 , Bangel. My draw is 26" with 63lbs. My arrows are Easton 2114 Superlite XX75 Camo Hunter. My grooping is about 6"-8" and getting better. Every bow guy who sees me shoot always tells me to get carbon arrows.
I would also like to know the difference and are the carbons going to make shoot better aside from skill.?

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 05:12 PM
What do you do with them arrows? Do you shoot them into a brick wall? Or do you bend them back and forth when you pull them out of the target? I use nothing but aluminums, even the camo hunters, but have yet to breake one in over 15 years of slinging arrows and hunting. And as anyone, knowing me, will tell you I am not busy footing around with my gear.
Just curious.

Carbon arrows are good but they have their weakness too. If all else is said and done both are about equal, other than the price.

bsa30-06
04-12-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm new to bowhunting aswell so i wont offer any advice but i use aluminum arrows and the only problem i've had with them so far is i clashed 2 of them together last week and put small dents in each one.I have also been told to try carbon arrows and i will because the advice came from people with way more experience then me and that is the only way to learn.

calvin L
04-12-2006, 05:17 PM
Kirby I am having trouble getting gold tips in kelowna are there any in kamloops . And they do make carbons stronger than alum as Kirby said . There is a fine line between a heavy arrow and a lighter arrow with more energy . I shoot gold tip xt 55-75 at 66 lbs I have been able to harvest white tail & mule deer ,bear , bear , & a moose .They work great . I have been shooting the same 12 arrows (down to 6 ) for the last 5 years hunting & 3d . I know there are alot of good carbon arrows I have just found gold tips work for me
calvin L

Kirby
04-12-2006, 05:31 PM
Calvin, nobody around here that I would go to. I tend to go to the coast or caribou, Boormans, Hub sports, Specialty shooting sports, are all good dealers. Or I go to http://www.canadiancamo.com/

As for the weight = Kinetic energy, really its not true. If you pick up 3 grs of weight you loose 1 fps, use this and do the math. http://www.bowhuntinginfo.com/KineticEnergyNew.htm

380gr arrow @ 280 fps = 66.17
increase the weight by 60 gr, you loose 20 fps with the same set up.
440 arrow @ 260 fps = 66.06

IF you up your arrow weight, and your draw weight then you increse KE
440 @ 280 = 76.62

As to cost:
Easton XX75 2413(what I use to shoot) = 80.00(alum)
Gold tip 5575 Expedition hunter = 69.00(carbon)
Gold tip 5575 XE hunter(What I shoot) = 89.00(carbon)
The cost of carbons is close to the cost of aluminums, and they are stronger.

Hunt writer, are you serious? cause I've gotta call bs. I've shot for close to 20 years, and toasted more arrows than I care to count. I don't think its possible to shoot much, other that target and not break arrows.

Kirby

Bow Walker
04-12-2006, 05:42 PM
For those looking for a heavier hunting arrow......
You should seriously consider the Gold Tip 7595. If you are shooting 50 lbs or greater these arrows will provide you with the needed KE to hunt anything that walks or crawls in Canada (or the usa).

7595's coupled with a 125 grain broadhead is a lethal combination.

sealevel
04-12-2006, 05:48 PM
http://www.nationalarcherysupply.com/ is where i get my gold tips. I have had good luck buying from them.

endtimerwithabow
04-12-2006, 06:12 PM
they break when I miss a rabbit or a grouse they hit branches and rocks:-( . I have broken about 2 and bent about 4. And yes I do pull them staight out when extracting from target. I am tryn out a mechcanical release so I dropped from 63-65 lbs to about 45-50 to train myself when I get better I will increase the lbs to what I feel comfortable with I would like to do some 3d shootn. I am moving to Lumby in 2 wks is there a place to do some shootn around the area? Do the carbons come in heavy weights? The ones that I have held seem alittle lite.

Bow Walker
04-12-2006, 06:22 PM
I second sealevel's recommendation of National Archery Supply. They are more widely known as Heartland Archery. I have found Canadian Camo to be very slow in shipping. Very Slow. That being said, if you have the time to wait, then go for it. They often have competitive prices.

Walksalot
04-12-2006, 06:27 PM
I am new to bowhunting and last year was my first year. I have a pse II 60-70 lbs older but a nice bow shot 5-6 times before I got my hands on it my arrows are aluminum the heavest ones I can shoot with this bow they are easton 2315 lite XX75 camo hunter. I find they break and get bent ( I do need more practise) easily, are the carbon arrows harder to damage and do they come as heavy as the ones I'm currently using?

I havent harveted any large game yet but this year I want a early season Elk and a Whitetail. My son and I are shotn just about every day my grouping is about 7-8" and gettn smaller. I apprecite any and all adivce.

Thnx Doug

I have to question also what you are shooting your aluminum arrows into. A large burlap sack filled with shopping bags will cause minimul damage to your arrows. If you find you are getting tight groups and banging arrows together then this can beat them up too. If you miss the target well that's another story.
The claim to fame of the graphite arrow is that it is either straight or broken. If you miss the target with a graphinte it will beat them up just the same only you won't be able to straighten them. As mentioned before, if a graghite gets a nick in it the arrow should be discarded as another claim to fame of the graphite is they can shatter.

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 06:28 PM
Hunt writer, are you serious? cause I've gotta call bs. I've shot for close to 20 years, and toasted more arrows than I care to count. I don't think its possible to shoot much, other that target and not break arrows.

Kirby

Maby I just was lucky, but I don't think so. In all my years shooting my bow every day, untill three weeks ago when I fractured my shoulder, I never have broken an arrow. Not even once. Now bending arrows, that is another story, there are a few that went into a tree and bent. But I can streighten them out again. Whereas a carbon breaks and is toast. Once I had an arrow hit a rock and the field point got pushed into the arrow. I cut a 1/2 inch off put a new insert in and I still kill deer with that arrow today.

I am not against carbon arrows, not in the least bit. I just have never seen a reason why I should buy any when what I use works fine for me. Now if someone would give carbon arrows to me I would use then without hessitation.

From what I have seen with carbon arrows and the experience I made and have seen by others. I am left with the opinion that there really is not much difference between the two arrow styles. In my opinion they are equal.

Now the first carbon arrows that came out where an absolute mess. I use to refuse to guide deer hunters who used them because we had so many bad experiences with carbons. But since them days they sure have come a long way, very few complaints about them now.

I guess you could say I am just not a gadget guy, as long as I get the results I expect of a product and it fulfills my needs I see no reason th change. But as I said before that don't mean I would not endorse it for others.;-)

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 06:32 PM
I have found Canadian Camo to be very slow in shipping. Very Slow.

A bit like their hunting forum then, a visitor per month and one to two posts per year.:mrgreen:

I often wodered about Canadian Camo, but I will give them a miss, as you must be now 10th person I hear that is not happy with them.

endtimerwithabow
04-12-2006, 06:46 PM
my target is compressed anaconda board its fairly solid.

Bow Walker
04-12-2006, 06:49 PM
Anaconda board?? Is that like a ton of snakes compressed into itty bitty sizes??

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 06:54 PM
my target is compressed anaconda board its fairly solid.

What ever that is. Forgive my ignoraance but I too thought it was compressed snakes.

If that board is a type of wood, or like dry wall or such thing and compressed, then it might very well be way to hard for any arrows. Arrows are designed to go trough flesh and bone not concrete.;-)

endtimerwithabow
04-12-2006, 06:56 PM
snakes thats funny:smile: . its like t-bar ceiling tiles only alot more solid. It works great.

bsa30-06
04-12-2006, 07:00 PM
He's right guys it makes good target material they use it at the indoor range beside boormans.

Dirty
04-12-2006, 07:07 PM
Isn't it called duracona? The carbon arrows are way more durable. They do not bend, dent or any of that other nast stuff. I have also missed quite a few targets:oops: and they hold up extremely well. The only time I have destroyed an arrow was when i shot it into my target frame. In addition, the way archery is going, aluminum arrows will be harder to come by as stock purchases from retailers.

sealevel
04-12-2006, 07:08 PM
i think he means dono-cono board and it makes a great butte. Arrows are one thing you get what you pay for. Alum. shafts are to exspensive for me to shoot cause they bend. I have broken very few goldtips only when they get hit with another arrow. A good carbon shaft can take a glanceing blow were an alum can`t nether can take a brick wall. Huntwriter you must be the best shot or you only shoot in real save places.

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 07:15 PM
He's right guys it makes good target material they use it at the indoor range beside boormans.

I still have no clue, blessed are the meek, but If you say so I will belive it.:)

bsa30-06
04-12-2006, 07:17 PM
i believe the name of the material he is talking about is called donacona board ( my spelling might be wrong) but it does work real well.

Awishanew
04-12-2006, 07:25 PM
Endtimerwithabow. At our club we use the shink wrap that is used to wrap stock that is on pallets. We get it from grocery stores or liquor stores. When stuffed into a coffee bean sack and compressed they last a long time and get no pass throughs. Also your arrows are easily pulled out.
Also, if you are new to bowhunting I suggest taking the IBEP course if it is available in your area.

bsa30-06
04-12-2006, 07:34 PM
ok guys i googled it and it is spelled donacona and it is made of compressed sawdust( it is real similar to t-bar cieling tiles)

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 08:08 PM
ok guys i googled it and it is spelled donacona and it is made of compressed sawdust( it is real similar to t-bar cieling tiles)

Isn't that a bit hard for arrows?
All I use are the commerical target blocks, McKenzy Deer and the odd straw bale. So I have no clue as to other materials.

Fred
04-12-2006, 11:19 PM
I thought it was made from somewhat compressed paper. In any event, if it is layered on it's side it is not in the least hard on arrows and they are quite easy to extract. Well at least the aluminum ones are, I don't use carbons. Fred

willyqbc
04-13-2006, 07:17 AM
they are refferring to "donna conna" (not sure on the spelling) when made right they are a B*TCH to pull arrows from but last quite well. Its kind of like soft, flexible particle board sheets compressed together.

Chris

swamper
04-13-2006, 07:36 AM
I was shooting into that crap last weekend and it took two of us to pull my arrows out. Don't know if soap would even help.

sealevel
04-13-2006, 07:49 AM
we have donocono for buttes at our range. If you compress then to much they are hard to pull . If arrows are hard to pull back off on the pressure you on it. Some arrows i have found just stick to that stuff PSE seam to be the worst.

J_T
04-13-2006, 07:59 AM
Yup, donaconna (of course I never thought I'd have to spell it) is real tough to pull an arrow out of. I'm sure aluminums will bend pulling them out.

I have used WD40 on the aluminum arrows when I'm shooting and it does help.

Awishanew is bang on though. I shoot into a carpet bag full of shrink wrap and it is absolutely the best. Much easier for wood arrows.

JT

huntwriter
04-13-2006, 08:04 AM
I spray all my arrows with a thin layer of gun oil, WD40 works too, from the point end up to about a 1/4 of the arrow length. This makes pulling them out of the target very easy.

The 'Hummer'
04-13-2006, 09:57 AM
With my first compound, a Darton Maverick, I used 2413, XX75 & XX78's. I did bend a few, but I could straighten them. What I do like with aluminium, is how much quieter they seem to be. B...U...T, with my Hoyt's, I have gone to carbon, Comp Pro 300's. Aluminium will mark up & bend, carbons will mark/score, break or shatter. When you hit 'rocks' or target frames, both could sustain damage. I believe one to be as good as the other, a matter of choice for the most part & I wouldn't hesitate to use either.:smile:

As the groups start to 'tighten' to help minimize damage to your arrows, especially at closer ranges, shoot one arrow / target or point of aim.;-)

At our indoor range the butt is made up of stacked & compressed telephone books. Outdoors, with a roof cover, sheets of Donacona are cut into strips, about 16" x 48" (I think those are the dimensions), stacked & compressed. If arrows are difficult to extract, it's usually a sign too much preasure is being used to compress. Also, there is a tendency for a residue, to stick to arrows but a soap bar seems to help me there. Another guy I know uses a cloth with Pam or a veggie cooking oil to wipe his arrows with & he says that helps. Haven't tried that myself.:neutral:

At home for a butt or target bag, I've made one out of a bag I was able to get of a material similar to those commercially available. It is about 3' x 5', I've crammed & stuffed as much sheet plastic and used shrink wrap into it as I could into it. It has stood up well after a lot of shooting over the last 3 + years. Another added benefit is it also stands up well to the weather unprotected.:-)

greybark
04-13-2006, 10:24 AM
;-) Hey Gang , there is at least two types of donn-conna board . One of the types is rather dark in color and is a bitch to pull arrows out . The lighter coloured stuff fits the bill perfectly.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

endtimerwithabow
04-13-2006, 10:44 AM
if you all go back and read what my original question was its not about what i shot my arrows into its about what arrows are the best and which ones are the most durable? my arrows donot get bent from pullin them out of the target i shot at. :-)

huntwriter
04-13-2006, 11:30 AM
if you all go back and read what my original question was its not about what i shot my arrows into its about what arrows are the best and which ones are the most durable? my arrows donot get bent from pullin them out of the target i shot at. :-)

As has been said here a few times. Both carbon and aluminum have advantages and disatvantages. In the end they are essentially the same and the rest is personal preference.

Walksalot
04-13-2006, 12:14 PM
Graphites are a bugger to pull out of donn-conna even lubed up.

swamper
04-13-2006, 01:10 PM
I've been shooting 3-D now for 10 years. Like most of us shooting back then I was using aluminum arrows. I would go to a shoot with a dozen arrows and be lucky to come home with 4 useable ones. I found that they bent way too easily and they never would really straighten out good enough to be used for anything other than a grouse arrow. I kept on using them because of the cost difference between the aluminum and the carbons.

I finally broke down and bought 1/2 dozen carbons and low and behold I was coming home with all my arrows. The increase in speed improved my shooting considerably, a gain of at least 25 fsp a the same draw weight. I personally find the carbons to so much more durable. I only use Goldtips as they seem to be almost indestructable. And now you can buy a dozen carbon shafts for virtually the same price as aluminum.

It doesn't matter what you are shooting, if you miss and hit something solid you will ruin an arrow. I have killed 3 deer with the Goldtip 5575's with 100 gr broadheads. More that sufficient kinetic enery and as we all know, shot placement over energy is what really matters when bow hunting. I am more interested in building my KE through speed as opposed to weight. The more speed, the flatter the trajectory and in my opinion the better the accuracy.

FullDraw
04-13-2006, 02:12 PM
I shoot traditional and i use carbons, I have had way better luck with carbons than all the other arrows, Aluminum I find bend and you can never get them straight again, The carbons take a real beating, They can break as well but I have had way better luck with them and not much tuning is needed. You can buy weight tubes for carbons if your worried about them being to light. Spend the money on carbons you won't be let down.

FullDraw

Sitkaspruce
04-13-2006, 03:57 PM
I use GT 5575 XT. If you are looking for GT arrows give Ted a call at T&F Country Sports in Prince George. He is a Lic Hoyt dealer and his prices are the same as Heartland/National Archery. His # is 250-961-3083.

I also use bags stuffed with wrap and I also use "The Block". Both work great.

endtimerwithabow
04-13-2006, 06:45 PM
I would like to thank everyone who took the time to give their oppinion about arrows I am going to give carbon a try. I have a buddy who sells bows and makes arrows in his basement (good deals on both). I am going to order 12 and maybe even a new bow. :smile:

thank Doug

happy easter and remember jesus saves!

adam moleski
05-27-2006, 07:56 PM
I used to only shoot aluminums and five years ago I decided to shoot carbon. I will never go back. they are always strait, way tougher and get great penitration ( not as good as a heavy aluminum, but good enough) the key is to shoot heavy carbons, which means there expensive but worth it. I shoot a beman 340 carbon hunter, and there awsome! heavy arrows fly better and penetrate better. just to confirm arguments I shot a moose with carbons at 58 yards arrow went right through him. shot a goat at 20 yards from the front, arrow went into his chest and out his butt and landed on the rocks and its still in my quiver today with a new broadhead of course! Thats the impresive ones, but I have more too. the key is though is you have to shoot a drop -away rest with carbons of else you will have trouble gettin fletch clearence with the small diameter and your arrows wont fly good. get a drop away and tight helical fletch heavy carbons and you will never go back. oh yeah and shoot a light broadhead that still has a good cutting diameter to balance your arrow! I shoot 85 grain thunder heads. thanks

chevy
05-27-2006, 09:12 PM
With my bow i shoot 65-75 carbon express arrows and have yet to break them i have used the same arrows for years now and i have hit rocks logs and all sorts but haven't broke one yet my groups with alluminums and 4 shots is 4-5 inches with carbons my groups are very tight the only thing i have broke on my carbons are the noks so i would suggest carbon arrows to everybody they are a great buy though they are a bit more expensive than alluminums depending on the type of carbon arrows you buy i have been shooting for over 20 years and i switched to carbons about ten years ago and never had a problem with them!!!