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marcus44
04-01-2006, 03:30 AM
Anyone use crossbows? If so what can you suggest? I am contemplating buying one in the next couple years and wanted to start looking into it, what people thought of them and any suggestions for buying.

rocksteady
04-01-2006, 07:02 AM
Oh boy, you may be kicking up a hornets nest with this one...Have you read the prior threads about crossbows:shock: :shock:

Personally, I own and hunt with a Horton Hunter Elite 175lb bow...I love it..Great quality, shoots great....Lifetime warranty on the barrel, which is machined aluminum, not nylon, like some out there....

My father-in-law has one too, he bought his in Kelowna (forget the shops name, but paid almost $1000 for the setup)..I watched and searched EBay for about 6 months and got my package for around $500 CDN, after the exchange, duty and taxes etc were all over and done with...Same bow, half the price.

There are a number of good bows out there, as well as some junk...Do your research...

I personally did not care for the excaliburs (MY OWN OPINION) because the heads were not compound, which made them quite wide, could be a pain packing in thicker brush....

Go for a good quality package, practice lots and buy good quality broadheads and you should be satisfied....Dont try to pinch pennies or you will wound stuff, get pissed off and end up hating it..


I am sure you will get more opinions than mine, so hang on to your hat...

J_T
04-01-2006, 07:27 AM
My suggestion if you want to enter the realm of bowhunting is do your research to determine your need. Check the regs as well for bowhunting opportunities.

If the crossbow is what you are looking for, there are lots of them out there. Take the time to compare performance with cost. There might be a difference between what Can Tire will sell you and what a quality sporting goods shop will sell you. You might also want to consider your support network. Are you alone in this endeavour? Who will make adjustments to the machine? Where will you shoot? Supplies?

It would be my wish that this thread remains civil.

Your subject line is sort of like laying a wounded animal out in a pasture in the midst of a bunch of wolves that haven't eaten in a while.

JT

marcus44
04-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Yeah I kinda thought I may be stirring up a hornets nest... but decided to take my chances... kinda been pondering it for a while now dont know if and when I will.

As for repairs and such, I know a couple of the hunting stores down here have a lot for bow supplies and what not. But another reason I am starting now and preparin for the future with lots of research on the subject. Plus it would be kinda nice to maybe get the wife involved to, as she has mentioned she wouldnt mind tryin archery.

Thanks for the opinions guys, any and all are welcome... just hopefully I dont start any major fights.

huntwriter
04-01-2006, 09:33 AM
Your subject line is sort of like laying a wounded animal out in a pasture in the midst of a bunch of wolves that haven't eaten in a while.

JT
Very true, lets hope the wolfs have eaten and are sleepy now.:grin:



Yeah I kinda thought I may be stirring up a hornets nest... but decided to take my chances... kinda been pondering it for a while now dont know if and when I will.
You made the right choice by "taking a chance". After all this is still a free country and not Soviet Russia.:-D We should not be intimitated by those who not like what we are doing.

Like it has been do your research before you make a decision. The web is a wonderful place for researching and reviewing. Use it. There is a lot of company independednt information out there. Look at all the options and don't get hang up on a particular brand name, because they don't mean much. Suitabilty and quality price relation however, does.

Good luck

Ddog
04-04-2006, 10:42 PM
i won't get into this one. (yet, lol)

brotherjack
04-05-2006, 05:58 AM
I'd vote for an Excalibur, hands down.

calvin L
04-05-2006, 06:53 AM
I myself have never hunted with one but I have friends that do. As I see it they take out one step the bow hunting that is you can walk around with it cocked all the time . This takes out the drawing process . I used to be dead set against them on the 3d crouse or hunting but after some thought and trying a couple of them . I have changed my mind . I have been a archer for 13 years. I thought they gave a advantange to the person using them untill i tried one . (there is a little do to the fact you aim it as a rifle) You still have to judge the yardage & place the shot . As I see it we (me included)that have run clubs or shoots in the past or even now are at some fault for not allowing the cross bow's at the 3d shoots . There are some shoots allowing them now which is good . This will allow the people that own a cross bow to get out and practice. They do not do any more damage tha I have been able to see than a fast compound bow's and carbons . There is more damage done to the targets on removal of the carbon arrows if not lubed or soaped . I gess my biggest problem is the people that buy any type of archery equpment and not become proficent with it . IT PI$$ES me off that people have the nerve to buy any type of weapon for 2 extra week's of hunting there should be a manditory cource you take to get the change to hunt with archery gear . Just my thoughts AND I KNOW THAT THERE A SOME THAT WILL ******DISSAGREE STRONGLY ***** but would it not be better for all of us and the game if we all became proficent with any of the weapons we choose . PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME UP TO BAD LOL
calvin L

Walksalot
04-05-2006, 07:02 AM
As long as the weapon of choice is legal and one can shoot it good enough to humanely harvest an animal then who are we to judge.

sealevel
04-05-2006, 07:05 AM
Let`s turn this into a constuctive thread then. Some think u can just buy a Xbow sight it in and go hunting. I could teach someone in a day to shoot a compound good enough to shoot a deer or bear at 25 yards if i tell them what to shoot it at. The hardest part of shooting is knowing your distance. Thats with any archery it takes practace to learn to shoot up or down hill. I have watched xbows and i personly wouldn`t shoot one for several reasons but is there an advantage to shooting one NO

Walksalot
04-05-2006, 07:41 AM
The bottom line is that if a person doesn't have time to practice to get the form down, which is a very important factor in becoming a consistently accurate shooter, for a traditional or compound then a crossbow would be the choice.
Without a dought it is distance guesstimating which is the key to any archery weapon.

huntwriter
04-05-2006, 10:12 AM
IT PI$$ES me off that people have the nerve to buy any type of weapon for 2 extra week's of hunting there should be a manditory cource you take to get the change to hunt with archery gear . Just my thoughts AND I KNOW THAT THERE A SOME THAT WILL ******DISSAGREE STRONGLY ***** but would it not be better for all of us and the game if we all became proficent with any of the weapons we choose . PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME UP TO BAD LOL
calvin L
I do not disagree strongly...I just disagree with anything that has the word "mandatory" attached to it.

What you suggest has been tried elsewhere and it had no positive effect whatsoever on the proficiency of hunters.
Hunting is way over regulated and tied up with "mandatory obligations"...in fact this is the #1 cause why many new and young people stay away from hunting.

How are you going to do such a proficiency test?
In New York State every hunter has to make a proficiency test. In order to pass you have to shoot five arrows at 35 yards into the kill zone.

Here is the crux with that test.

What if you are not comfortable shooting at this distance and only shoot at 25 yards? You fail the test, evenso you are proficient out to 25 yards.

What if you have test nerves and miss by one arrow? You failed the test.

The New York statistics show that most hunters who fail the test never re-take the test again and go back to rifle hunting. The various bowhunting organizations who at first lobbied a proficiency test are now trying their best to get rid of it because the bowhunter numbers shink fast.

Should we make tests at different ranges, and then make out certificates stating that hunter A is permitted to shoot deer out to 25 yards and hunter B out to 30 yards? Who is going to enfoce that once the hunter is in his treestand?

You see, it's very much like driving a car. We all have to learn how to drive a car and we all have to make a proficiency test. Does it work? Of course not! If it would work there would be no speeders, no drunk drivers and no road-hogs sitting behind steering weels causing accidents. Neither can it be enforced because there are more car drivers that police.

So what makes us think it would work with hunters.

In America some states have no hunter education and proficiency tests whatsoever, some others have voluntary hunter education and proficiency tests, still others have mandatory hunter education and proficiency tests. There is clear evidence that overall in America hunter education and proficiency tests have not made one iota of difference how hunters behave. Hunters that have to take a hunter education course and proficiency test are not better than the ones that don't. The only diffence it made is in the hunter numbers. Where education and tests are mandatory the numbers are in steady decline. Where hunters do not need education and tests or where it is volunatary the numbers hold even or climb slightly.

Before someone comes up to say, but huntwriter look at what the different hunter education organizations say how ethics and hunter safety have improved because of education. Let me say this; Hunter education organizations are first of all a business making money of the hunters, with that they have to speak positively of themselves. It's called advertising and with that comes making up stories and tilt aspects in onse favour to look good and state a purpose of existence.

Hunter ethics cannot be thaught in a 40 something hour course. Hunter safety has not improved. Hunting always has been one of the safest sports, a lot safer than basketball. The reson why accident numbers have dropped is because hunter numbers have dropped too. As far back as 30 years and more the hunter accident rate is allways around +/-1%. This number is taken from the government accident statistics and are a lot more accurate and unbiased than the once released by hunter education groups.

Proficiency is what we make it. For some it might be 25 yards for others 50 yards, but it can not be regulated. Once we are in the woods we are alone and it is up to us to decide what's right and what not. There always will be the odd one that does not care but it would not be right to make laws because of them alone. Laws never prevented slobs, poaching, being a road-hog and such.

The real problem with hunting, but not only, is peer preassure. I lost count how many times I heard; "Only sissies wear a safety belt in a treestand", "If you can't shoot an arrow out to 50 yards you should not go hunting with a bow." or "If you are a serious rifle hunter you have to own a .300 magnum." It is this negatieve macho peer pressure that leads others to "measure" up and unethical behaviour.

calvin L
04-06-2006, 07:41 PM
HUNTWRITER you are right about to many course's and cash grabs my be if in the core program if they toughed on archery a bit more it would help . I do realize we will never be able to stop all of the $hit for brains out there but it would be nice. I have some buddies in nova scotia that had to take a course before they could hunt with a bow it was part of there core program . there hunting family thought it was a great idea . I see in your reply some good well thought out and informed infromation .I gess I am just upset we all have to deal with crap like I listed in my post in this day and age . There still seem to be a lack of respect by some for the sport,the animals we hunt and other hunters .

bcfarmer
04-07-2006, 07:11 AM
The bottom line is that if a person doesn't have time to practice to get the form down, which is a very important factor in becoming a consistently accurate shooter, for a traditional or compound then a crossbow would be the choice.
Without a dought it is distance guesstimating which is the key to any archery weapon.

I have to say this is what i thought when i bought my first crossbow 4 years ago. I couldn't have been more wrong. It takes a great deal of practice to be able to hit where you want, from all angles, in order to be confident that there will be a clean kill.

I hunt / 3D shoot with a crossbow because of a shoulder injury which does not allow me to practice enough with a longbow or compound. So some people should think about disabilities before they denounce the use of crossbows.(just a general statement,,not directed at anyone)

As has been stated before...if its a legal weapon then encourage people to get into the bush.

bcfarmer

Onesock
04-07-2006, 08:00 AM
In a way I have to agree with bcfarmer and calvin. The only way to stop hunters from buying a weapon and hunting before they know what its short comings are is to have mandatory bow hunter education. I would not want to see proficiency testing brought in. Teach them how an arrow kills and give them some bowhunter education. Why should we have mandatory proficency for a bow when it is not required for a firearm? Mandatory bowhunter education tes, mandatory proficiency testing no.

sealevel
04-07-2006, 08:17 AM
How many people hunting with a rifle can`t hit the broad side of a barn door. There are lots of hunters come to the range 2 weeks before hunting season bench rest the rifle take a couple shots and go hunting. Most of them couldn`t hit a 2foot square box off hand with a rifle. And if there 45 years and under they took the core so what good do`es that do. No mandatory course is going to make anyone practace shooting bow crossbow or rifle.

Onesock
04-07-2006, 09:02 AM
I agree with you sealevel 100%. But if they have to take the IBEP course they have to think about what they are getting into prior than 2 weeks before they do it. They would have to take the course sometime before hunting, so it would not be spur of the moment. It would make these new guys think about what they are doing. But I do agree a course will not make someone become proficient with their weapon of choice.

huntwriter
04-07-2006, 12:50 PM
In a way I have to agree with bcfarmer and calvin. The only way to stop hunters from buying a weapon and hunting before they know what its short comings are is to have mandatory bow hunter education. I would not want to see proficiency testing brought in. Teach them how an arrow kills and give them some bowhunter education. Why should we have mandatory proficency for a bow when it is not required for a firearm? Mandatory bowhunter education tes, mandatory proficiency testing no.

That would drive even more hunters away from our sport. I mean how much more schems do we come up with to make hunting difficult for beginners.

The worst case scenario would then look something like this.
Mandatory Hunter Education.
Mandatory Achery Proficiency Test.
Mandatory Firearm Proficiency Test.
Mandatory Crossbow Proficiency test.

I already feel sorry for the hunter who would hunt with different weapons. The hunters would have a pocket full of licenses and emty bank account and there still would be slobs out there. Laws and mandatory obligations never will stop wrongdoers. Strict law enforcement of existing laws and punishment however will.

I know we live in an age where we are hell bent on eradicating all accidents, sloppiness and other unplesant things with ever more laws and regulation plus still more "education". I was in Soviet Russia and Mao China, they tried the same thing there too. The perfect society where people carried stacks of licenses around from such simple things as child rearing licence to street sweeping licence and bicycle riding. Each of these licences had to be gained trough mandatory education courses. It was an almost perfect world with the only notable differece people where not free anymore not even in their own bedrooms. Heck before you could get married you had make a martiage education course and then got a license that you are fit to marry.

We are heading fast that way too.

huntwriter
04-07-2006, 01:22 PM
I hunt / 3D shoot with a crossbow because of a shoulder injury which does not allow me to practice enough with a longbow or compound. So some people should think about disabilities before they denounce the use of crossbows.(just a general statement,,not directed at anyone)

As has been stated before...if its a legal weapon then encourage people to get into the bush.

bcfarmer
For the utterly undeserved bad reputation the cossbow has you can thank organizations like the IBEP, Pope & Young Club plus other high profile archery organizations who in the preservation of their small minded interest spent an unbelievable amount of time, effort and money on bad mouthing the crossbow when it first became popular. It is thanks to them that the very effectieve and traditional crossbow (crossbows are in use for over 800 years) has been reduced to a "disabled hunter" weapon.

Only recently, when the crossbow became more popular and some American states, quit rightly, ignorerd the whining of the archery lobby and declared the crossbow a legal hunting weapon for ALL hunters in the archery season, has the IBEP changed his mind. I guess they smelled the money that could be made of crossbows, and offer now crossbow education courses. We even see now that some archery organizations changed their mind by "welcoming crossbows and an exiting new addition to archery". Can you spell HYPOCRISY

I made the right decision when I turned my back on the IBEP and the P&Y Club years ago for their stance on crossbows.

Onesock
04-09-2006, 01:38 PM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess.

Phred
04-09-2006, 06:38 PM
I'm not a new hunter, but i am new to bowhunting. The more I look and learn about bowhunting the more bowhunters look the dysfunctional cousin in the hunting family.
The elitism is astounding. (not necessarily in this thread, just this forum overall)

huntwriter
04-09-2006, 08:09 PM
You hit a nerve there. You are right, but believe me it's not just on this forum. Bowhunters can be very single track minded. In fact to become a successful bowhunter you have to have a bit of a stubborn streak in you. Bowhunting is very involved, you have to shoot your weapon more just to stay in shape. You have to scout very differently then a rifle hunter. Just finding any old area that holds game is not enough. You have to find the exact location and then the right tree to hang you stand. And so the list goes on.

I am 60% bowhunter but you are right, there have been times where I have been almost ashamed to say that. When I ever I have a heated opinion exchange then it is with bowhunters. A rifle hunter never would say to me, "What you hunt with a bow? You are not a proper hunter." But I hear such nonsense talk quit often from bowhunters when I tell them that I also hunt with other weapons like rifle, slug guns and muzzleloaders, don't even mention crossbows. If you do most will treat you like you just told them you have the plague.

I often wondered why that is and I still can't figure it out. To me bow hunting is all about having fun and having yet another option to harvest game.Neither do I find that a bowhunter is more ethical or a better hunter, not in the least bit. A bowhunter just uses different skills that all. So does the muzzleloader hunter and the crossbow hunter. Many elitist bowhunters would be very surpriced to see how much skill is needed to shoot a crossbow, but since they refuse to try they never will know and keep talking about something they have no clue about it.

My advice to you is listen to what others have to say, especially when you still learn, but keep an open mind and have fun. If you hear narrow minded and elitist talk walk away and laugh.

The 'Hummer'
04-10-2006, 09:14 AM
Almost four years ago I was 'introduced' to archery. Since then I get in at least weekly target practice with a compound bow and Deer hunt with it as well, when I get the chance. While I enjoy archery,:) I don't have any intention of giving up my firearms that I use for the same sport purposes. Crossbows are not an interest of mine so I have no intent of getting or using one.:neutral: For those that choose to do so, its exactly that, a matter of choice. To paraphrase & echo a some of the same sentiments expressed by Huntwriter, I feel the ethics should be the same:!: reguardless of the 'tool of choice.' I also like his last advice, "keeping an open mind." The objectives remain the same. For some, the primary purpose is the trophy aspect, for others its to fill the deepfreeze and for others yet, it may be to enjoy the experience & outing in the company of good friends. Where I've found the greatest difference is in the diverse skills and tactics or methods required to be successful with each particular 'tool of choice'. I'm in the preliminary planning stages of setting up for a Moose hunt in Alaska, about 2008, using a 500 S&W handgun. As a result, I expect a whole set of new tactics / logistics will come into play.;-)

Mooseman
04-10-2006, 09:37 AM
:mrgreen:
As a Guide Outfitter & Angling Guide & Traditional Bowhunter, I have passed average life expectancy and will without further ado duck and run now..............>>>

PS: But I am not ashamed to be any of these!

huntwriter
04-10-2006, 10:22 AM
:mrgreen:
As a Guide Outfitter & Angling Guide & Traditional Bowhunter, I have passed average life expectancy and will without further ado duck and run now..............>>>

PS: But I am not ashamed to be any of these!
I understand what you say. But it is exactly that what at times disturbs me a bit, namely that we have to be careful not to open a can of worms. I just wish that folks who do not like crossbows could find it in themselves to skip this thread. Or simply post "I don't care for crossbows" without going on a rant about it. Be happy we are all hunters. Different hunters. But hunters nonetheless.

I like traditional bowhunting, I even would like to try it. In fact I have tried it but it's not for me. But it sure is fun for me to take it out for stump shooting.

Phred
04-10-2006, 01:19 PM
My advice to you is listen to what others have to say, especially when you still learn, but keep an open mind and have fun. If you hear narrow minded and elitist talk walk away and laugh.
Oh, don't worry, when I hear someone spout off about how using certain equipment is wrong or "too easy" I'll let them finish and then promtly ignore them. I'm new to bowhunting, but not to bows (shot them most of my life). The same goes for fishing. While I think fly fishing is the way to go, I'm not about to put down a hardware chucker for using what he wants to use. It's all about the enjoyment of the sport, not what you use.

huntwriter
04-10-2006, 02:25 PM
Oh, don't worry, when I hear someone spout off about how using certain equipment is wrong or "too easy" I'll let them finish and then promtly ignore them. I'm new to bowhunting, but not to bows (shot them most of my life). The same goes for fishing. While I think fly fishing is the way to go, I'm not about to put down a hardware chucker for using what he wants to use. It's all about the enjoyment of the sport, not what you use.

I once mentioned on a fishing forum here in B.C. that I like Bass fishing a lot. Good thing we where not sitting in the same room, I might would have to fear being lynched there and then. It got so ugly that the admin had to lock the thread I think a few got "laid off" too for the language they used to tell me what they think of Bass fishing and fishers who do fish for bass.

Sad really to think that people can be so narrow minded. Sad for them not me.:mrgreen:

The 'Hummer'
04-10-2006, 02:26 PM
I guess I'm missing the point of Moosemans response. I see quite a bit of his experience deals with aspects of angling. I like fishing, and it doesn't matter whether I use herring plug, flies or 'scrap metal' as bait. What ever fits the situation. I am 'catch & eat' though, not catch & release, but I don't begrudge someone if that happens to be their bag.

brotherjack
04-10-2006, 03:13 PM
I once mentioned on a fishing forum here in B.C. that I like Bass fishing a lot.

I love bass fishing too (perch also). Trout fishing is OK, but not near as much fun (too slow). Just curious - you can PM me to keep it from hijacking the thread, but why on earth would anyone have a problem with bass fishing? I can't think of a single complaint, rational or otherwise, that someone might have with bass fishing.. ??

marcus44
04-10-2006, 10:18 PM
Well I guess I sure opened up a can o' worms with this thread... anyways thanks for all the input... I am considering a crossbow as an introduction to Bow hunting... dont know if I will go that way or with a traditional compound bow... if I even do... I have hunted nearly all my life, been brought up with it and all the ethics towards hunting, fishing and the great outdoors in general... and as with anything the only way you will get better at it is to practice... which is why I try to get out target practicing before hunting season starts and to even shoot a few grouse, yotes or rabbits before going for the bigger game to check my bearings and shots... and with a bow of any sorts it would be easier to target practice... I could go in my back yard if I wanted to (cant exactly do that with a rifle or shotgun)... but thank you all for your input...

Fred
04-10-2006, 11:43 PM
I woudn't mind tieing into some Bass again or Perch or Channel Cats! Hey BJ, did you know that there are Walleyes in the Boundry River system? They worked their way up from the states. Fred

ratherbefishin
04-12-2006, 12:57 PM
seems to me you have to get within 30 yards reguardless if you use a regular bow or crossbow-and correct me if I am wrong-but a good part of ''hunting'' is the ability to get in close

Spirithawk ^i^
04-12-2006, 01:00 PM
In the US xbow are legal in some states during archery season and not in others. Here in Missouri, where I live, I have a defermant card being as how I'm disabled. I use an older Jennings Devastator 150 lb draw. It's a heavy bow but Ive found it to be very reliable and consistantly more accurate than a lot of newer bows. I have a Simmons Scope mounted on it. It hits hard, and very fast. One can be had off of Ebay for around $300. It's a good bow to start out with.

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 01:07 PM
seems to me you have to get within 30 yards reguardless if you use a regular bow or crossbow-and correct me if I am wrong-but a good part of ''hunting'' is the ability to get in close
That is exactly what makes me laugh about the silly bow v. crossbow discussion. The only thing some bowhunters have against the crossbow is the fact that the string is not held back by manpower, which for some is considered "not sportsmen like".

Appart from that, the crossbow is every bit like a "normal" bow. It's a short range weapon and highly effective. Heck, you even need to practise with it. Imagine that.:mrgreen:

I like crossbows, the only thing I hold against them is that they can be a bit cumbersome to drag around all day on a spot and stalk hunt.

bcfarmer
04-12-2006, 02:28 PM
I like crossbows, the only thing I hold against them is that they can be a bit cumbersome to drag around all day on a spot and stalk hunt.[/QUOTE]



probably being a bit nit picky here huntwriter(things are slow...lol) but both my crossbows have studs that allow slings to be attached, making tranport actually not to bad. Not sure how a crossbow would be more cumbersome than a recurve or compound when spottting and stalking. I think anything in your hands when trying to get within 20-30 yards wiil be cumbersome...but a fact of life.
after rereading this it is definitly nit picking...must be getting bored.

bcfarmer

huntwriter
04-12-2006, 04:25 PM
probably being a bit nit picky here huntwriter(things are slow...lol) but both my crossbows have studs that allow slings to be attached, making tranport actually not to bad. Not sure how a crossbow would be more cumbersome than a recurve or compound when spottting and stalking. I think anything in your hands when trying to get within 20-30 yards wiil be cumbersome...but a fact of life.
after rereading this it is definitly nit picking...must be getting bored.

bcfarmer

Tong in cheek.:mrgreen: Not nitpicky. Only one serious note here. On a spot and stalk hunt I would never carry any weapon on a sling over my shoulder, defeats the purpose of spot and stalk a bit.

ratherbefishin
04-13-2006, 04:30 PM
when someone who uses a mechanically advantaged bow,with a sophisticated bowsight,and holds the string back with a mechanical release-then claims the use of crossbows is not ''real'' bowhunting,I question the rationale behind their reasoning.I will accept the ''purist'' arguement from the longbow hunter who uses wooden arrows fletched with turkey feathers and only uses his fingers for a release-if it makes any diference