Canada In The Rough

[The 'Hummer']

I watched Canada In The Rough this morning, Episode 13: VELVET CARIBOU. Anyone else watch it? If so, what did you think of it?:?: I thought the shooters decission or judgement to take the shots he did exhibited a total lack of ethics. :mad: The first shot, the animal appaered to be 50 M's + away, it was trotting away, & a fairly strong side wind was blowing. The second shot, while perhaps not unethical, was questionable at best. The animal was quartering sharply towards him & he shot way over it. He didn't have a clue of what the range was, and admitted to some of the shots on the hunt being 50, 60 & 70 M's. I think an unethical exhibition such as this puts all bow hunters in a bad light.:-( Or is it just me?:?: Comments?

[bsa30-06]

I've seen a couple episodes of this show and have to say that i find alot of what he does questionable.

[ruger#1]

i watch jim shockey hunting bears in bc and easton shooting antalope in wyoming.on the outdoor channel.

[bsa30-06]

Keep rubbing it in mark.

[ruger#1]

lloyd you can buy a free to air , it is legal , but only if your watching dishnetwork , it isnt legal if you watch bellexpressvu chanels.you can get a hole system for about $300.00

[4blade]

i was thinking the same thing,and if he had stuck with it the caribou he did get was coming into bow range

[BlacktailStalker]

Dishnet ch.153 and 218, hunting and fishing 24hrs a day, with exception to a few infommercials, 4x4, atv and snowmobile shows. Gotta love it for the times you can't be out doing it yourself.

[Macgregor]

It.s funny you mention that. I thought the same thing when I seen that this morning. I'm glad he missed the animal because if he had hit it chances are it would have hit the hind quarters.

[willyqbc]

I went on there website immediately and registered my displeasure with what they had shown. I also told them if they do not straighten up I would start a campaign to encourage anyone and everyone to stop watching the show, mentioning the power of the internet as a highly efficient way to get the word out....will see if they reply.

Chris

[Steeleco]

Even my 10 year old thought he was nuts and we know nothing of bow hunting and what skills are involved in those kinds of hunts.

[Onesock]

Not only does this put bow hunting in a bad light but I think it puts all hunters in a bad light. THIS GUY IS DOING NOTHING FOR THE HUNTING COMMUNITY. If his web site doesn't respond I suggest getting hold of his sponsors to voice our displeasure.
Onesock

[The 'Hummer']

Not only does this put bow hunting in a bad light but I think it puts all hunters in a bad light. THIS GUY IS DOING NOTHING FOR THE HUNTING COMMUNITY. If his web site doesn't respond I suggest getting hold of his sponsors to voice our displeasure.
Onesock

I sent the website & production company an e-mail voicing my 'displeasure', just before I put in the thread.:mad: Overall its not a bad half hour show. 'Something' like that could happen on a hunt but I couldn't believe they would film & air it!:-o He almost seemed to think there was a comical aspect to it when he made mention of some of the long shots taken & missed. If nothing else, it serves as a good example of how not to hunt. When people see things like that in the media, especially on TV, it isn't hard to see why the anti hunting sentiment is growing.:sad:

[BC4Bowhunter]

I wasn't to impressed either with the display of "bad shot choice" and wonder how much of a bow hunter this guy really is. I don't think any ethical bowhunter would take a shot @ 50 yards at a moving animal. I know I wouldn't. However I have seen other hunting shows film the hunter take a poor shot at game. Some you can see the game are gut shot or wounded what I think you don't see is the guy with the three hundy finishing the animal off. I agree it make us bowhunters look bad

[Fred]

I watched 3 or 4 episodes of that tripe quite a while back and gave up on it. I also figure that it is only on TV because it is produced in Quebec and Wally uses a Franco-phone pornounciation on his last name. Fred

[Dragginbait]

I was wondering if someone was going to mention this mornings episode because it was a fu#@ing discrace. If I were watching this, being from the general public/non hunter and seen him just flinging arrows in the general direction of his target I would have thought that this is normally how it was done (being the "professional" that he is). Sure he was a hero hitting a bird at pissing range,but he should have left his bow at home or not aired his screw ups for the world to see and stuck with his close range rifle shot. p.s. Don't get me started on his high speed walrus hunt last week!!!oh ya someone should teach him how to pronounce his last name.

[rocksteady]

He's an idiot and the show sucks big time.......

I don't know why they would even air his misses, they were not even close !!!!!!

Did you see the week before where they followed the Muskox on snowmobile, till they were tired and circled up for their last stand and he shot one with a crossbow.......Really challenging hunting when their standing their with their tongues hanging down to their knees.......


He really gives hunting a bad name, not just bowhunting either, we will all be branded the same.....

The less press this idiot gets the better, hopefully the lack of viewers will cause the sponsors to cancel his ass......

[rollingrock]

I've never liked the show. It has never exhibited the nature of hunting to the audience. Each trip looked so easy, each shot he took was so perfect, each game he hunted was so dumb. what the....

[Fred]

Perhaps someone who knows how should forward him this thread! Might open his eyes some to how the public thinks of his program. Fred

[The 'Hummer']

I don't know about anyone else that has sent a 'comment' to their website, but I know I haven't received the courtesy of a reply.:( I think the suggestion:idea: by Onesock is a good one and it hits where the pain will be felt most, in the sponsorship which translates to $$$$$$. Lets 'do it'.:!:

[ruger#1]

you guys should get free to air and watch some real hunting,was watching black bear hunting in bc with jim shocky.and its legal

[The 'Hummer']

you guys should get free to air and watch some real hunting,was watching black bear hunting in bc with jim shocky.and its legal

Where abouts did it take place? On Vancouver Island, Port McNeil - Port Hardy area by any chance? I believe he has a guiding area & camp around there somewhere. By the way, what channel & date/time, cable or dish? Any access to any other good hunting / wildlife shows?

[ruger#1]

hummer it is on the outdoor chanel on dishnetwork there are some hunting shows on the mens chanel. there are some more chanel , but i need a rotor for my dish.the show was on sunday mid day. was watching turkey hunting at 4 pm.

[huntwriter]

I have read this thread from front to back and feel it is time to say something which only a very few people know. What I have to say shall be in no way, shape or form viewed as an excuse or even in defense of the show or the guy who hunts. In fact I can't stand him, never could. He tries to much to be a copy of Roger Raglin but does a very bad job of it.

As background information. I have 30+ years professional experience in the production of Videos and TV-Shows with animals all over the world. Not on the production staff but in the acting part and as consultant.

In the production of TV shows it's all about money and timming. Every single hour of production costs thousands of dollars. The light and weater have to be right too especially so in so called life shooting which is the oposite of staged shooting where they work with extra lightening, shading and colour effects, i.e. indoor or outdoor studio. This means that all partaking parties are under a constant pressure to produce the "goods" under any conditions available at the time. Every lost oportunity costs money, real money, but also waisted time and very often a waisted trip to God knows what corner of the world.

One of my hunting friends was one time involved in a TV show hunt and he told me after that this was his worst experience in his life. "I had a producer breathing nervously down my neck and a cameraman above me telling me what to do and another cameraman oposite me in a treestand shouting at me through the earphone that he could not get me on camera unless I move an inch." When he missed a nice buck neither of the production team hesitated to tell him that he just waisted 100'000 dollar production money and that because of him they would have to move on without getting the kill. I just could smile politely because I knew exactly what he was talking about, I do it for more than 30 years and I am still taking valium. No not really. I learned to tune out.

TV Show productions are planned many month ahead with a tight travelling schedule that they have to keep because the hunts a booked and the money will not be refunded. There is almost not room for error or missed scenes. giving more time costs a lot of money, that's not what sponsores pay for, they pay for results in the shortest time possible.

A Video production is a lot more relaxed since it often conists of several different hunts shot over a period of several months or even years and most importantly there are no deadlines to meet. The video will be finish when it is finish. A TV show is scheduled to be shown at a specific time and the production team has to meet that deadline come hell or high water, the TV Station is not going to reschedule them on a later time and if they hafe to then it will cost even more money, possibly even a lawsuit.

These are very reasonable, even if not desireable, cirumstances that can lead to a hunter shooting at everything that moves just not to waist sponsor and production money and time. This is even more of an issue with a small show as is the case with Canada in the Rough. This is not Mossy Oak or Realtree with 100's of staff, 50 camera teams and 30 hunters at any given time all over North America gathering footage for the next TV show and then still ahve some time to go to a high fense game preserve to shoot fill in kill scenes. Here we talk about 1 hunter and 2 cameraman that have to bring home the goods every single week or go home without being paid.

Like I said this is not an excuse for his behaviour but shall shed a bit light on, what might a person motivate to a certain behaviour, desireable or not.

But yes, by all means complain to the production of the show and tell them that you are displeased with what you have seen. I did. Either, they have to pack it in or hire more hunters and staff it's that simple.

If they pay well I might conceder an offer too.;)

[The 'Hummer']

Although I don't have the benefit of your experience Huntwriter, I do recognize with all the logistics & variables, filming a hunt is a daunting task to say the least. We have all missed shots, life isn't perfect.:oops: What disturbed me the most was his attitude in taking & missing shots, the numerous instances he claimed to have done it, and most of all, the way he seemed to make light of the fact.:-o Inexcusable!!:mad: That's not the portrayal of any hunter we need to see in the media. The anti-hunting sector has enough ammunition as it is. Last but not least, if filming 'these' shows poses such insurmountable difficulties, why don't we see similar 'exhibitions' on all the other hunting productions, on a regular basis? :?: The bottem line #1 basic consideration should be an ethical portrayal of the hunt. I'd rather see a shot or shots not being taken rather than doing something stupid.

[willyqbc]

I think the point here is there was no need to SHOW him shooting at running cariboo 50+ yards away. If your not capable of doing it with a bow in the time alloted then use a gun, production company gets their footage in a timely manner and at a reasonable price, and more negative stereotypes are not plastered all over the airwaves.

Chris

[huntwriter]

Although I don't have the benefit of your experience Huntwriter, I do recognize with all the logistics & variables, filming a hunt is a daunting task to say the least. We have all missed shots, life isn't perfect.:oops: What disturbed me the most was his attitude in taking & missing shots, the numerous instances he claimed to have done it, and most of all, the way he seemed to make light of the fact.:-o Inexcusable!!:mad: That's not the portrayal of any hunter we need to see in the media. The anti-hunting sector has enough ammunition as it is. Last but not least, if filming 'these' shows poses such insurmountable difficulties, why don't we see similar 'exhibitions' on all the other hunting productions, on a regular basis? :?: The bottem line #1 basic consideration should be an ethical portrayal of the hunt. I'd rather see a shot or shots not being taken rather than doing something stupid.
You are right, as I stated clearly I do not like the guy and never have. He puts me off the moment I see his mug on the TV or elsewhere.

The reason why we do not see that on other shows, or some of the other shows, is because as I stated. Most of them are very large companies. Take Mossy Oak, Realtree, Buckmasters and many more as example. They have a very big staff at hand and any given time up to 40 hunter/camera crew teams all over the place at all times. On the other hand, Canada in the Rough is basically a two man team in the field that has to come up with all the goods for every single show.
As I said clearly before this shall not serve as an excuse for his behaviour and attitude.

Having said all that I have to tell you that some of the "blooper footage" I have seen of bigger companies are at times very "painful" to watch too. I also know from hunters who took part in big production hunts are also under enormous pressure to "perform". There is one large company whose name I shall not mention here, which hosts several hunting shows and produces videos like a baker bread. They make a big fuss about "ethics", "heritage protection", "future hunting generations" and what not in every single show. Yet behind the scenes they couldn't care less about anything than shooting a big buck on camera any which way possible, even in high fenced enclosures. They even have contracts with their pro-staff hunters that clearly state if they can't "perform the requirements needed" they are fired.
The pressure of high end money and the hope to make another million and to capture that monster buck on film makes people sometimes forget what hunting is all about.

In parts it is our fault, because that is what the majority of the hunting show watchers, hunting video buyers and magazine readers want to see, read and demand. Nobody is going to watch a TV show where they only harvest does. This week they shot a 10 point B&C monster, next week they have to shoot two of them to make the people watch the show.

It's the same with hunting magazines. If you do not have a big buck story to tell or a list of of "sure fire" tactics for monster bucks then don't bother to send the article to the magazine because they are just not interested in it. Nobody wants to read about how you shot a doe and still had a good time with friends in the field.

A smaller video production company I know very well has at one time produced a video about scouting and really helpfull tips on finding deer plus basic solid advice on hunting strategies. It was one of the best videos they ever produced and should be in possession of every beginning or young hunter. Yet that video was a total flop it not even generatated the sales needed to cover the production cost. Another video of the same company, a "best of the best" where they show nothing but big bucks tropping left, right and center all over North America from hunts filmed over the span of ten years and taken out of various videos became an instant hit over night. He made more money with that one video than with all the others combined. He got rave reviews for the slow motion impacts of arrows and bullets on deer too. Guess what that guy is going to do in the futrue.

[The 'Hummer']

I think the point here is there was no need to SHOW him shooting at running cariboo 50+ yards away. If your not capable of doing it with a bow in the time alloted then use a gun, production company gets their footage in a timely manner and at a reasonable price, and more negative stereotypes are not plastered all over the airwaves.

Chris
EXACTLY!! Again, life isn't perfect, but lets at least try and maintain and show adegree of acceptable ethics.

[huntwriter]

I think the point here is there was no need to SHOW him shooting at running cariboo 50+ yards away. If your not capable of doing it with a bow in the time alloted then use a gun, production company gets their footage in a timely manner and at a reasonable price, and more negative stereotypes are not plastered all over the airwaves.

Chris
I agree with you 100% but again have to play devils advocate without any intention whatsoever to make excuses.
If the production company decided to make a bowhunting segment then the hunter cannot change the weapon in mid hunt. Production script writers can turn into very angry people if they a forced on short notice to change the script because the "actor" fails to perform according to the script. Plus it will cost a lot more time and money. Like I said a hunting Show production is not a few guys going to the woods for a good time. It's a tightly written and planed storyline with story boards and everything else that belongs to a proper produced and proposed film. The hunters are mere actors in a movie set, if you will, performing their described roll right down to what they say and how to act.

You see the very sad aspect of all this is, that it always boils down to the finacial bottom line and nothing else really matters much. Unless people like you, others and me take the time to write our disapproval of such shows. If we are lucky and more people do the same the company might change its ways.

[greybark]

;) In addition to his bad ethics concerning his archery skills I observed him walking after an animal with an arrow in in hand facing foward .
If he was to trip and fall the Guides would have to field dress him to make their dragging out chore easier.
It is safer to leave the arrow in your quiver untill ready for use or at on the string of the bow where it is out danger to the hunter.


REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

[The 'Hummer']

As my final comment, the conscious decision to take a very questionable & unethical shot, or actually shots, IS THE PROBLEM, regardless of the mitigating factors. That error in judgement was further compounded by the decision to air.

[The 'Hummer']

Yes, I know I said my previous thread was my final statement, however, I've just received an e-mail from Dancing Buffalo Productions. I'm sure the rest of you that sent them a 'comment' have received something similar. Hopefully things will change for the better. Good luck & Good Hunting.:D

[Ozone]

Would you mind sharing the basics off the email. I didnt watch on sunday so I didnt feel it was right to email them. Although I have thought about it before.

[MB_Boy]

Would you mind sharing the basics off the email. I didnt watch on sunday so I didnt feel it was right to email them. Although I have thought about it before.

Ozone....although I am not an archery expert or hunter for that matter I will describe for you.

Basically he lobbed an arrow at a running caribou that had to have been at least 50 yards away at a slight downhill if I recall correctly. I saw this episode a couple of months back, but I do recall thinking the same thing as many have expresssed in that it seemed like a pretty "risky" shot to be taking with a bow. :roll: Now please bear in mind.....I am just telling you what I saw and as stated I am no archery hunter.

[Onesock]

With the magic of the camera they could show the animal, show the shooter and then the animal running away with a simple "I missed" being said by the shooter. No one needs to see the particulars of the shot that went astray or the running animal. They could have edited this away better.

[bsa30-06]

Hummer, can you share a little info from the e-mail you got?

[Clint_S]

Hunting and profit making. The two just don't mix.
The other morning he was "hunting" walrus, what a joke.

[The 'Hummer']

Hummer, can you share a little info from the e-mail you got?

Yes, but I'm not sure how I can transfer from my in box to this response. I'll try 'click & drag', & if that doesn't work, if you could send me your e-mail address, I'll forward it on ot you. Here goes. I'll try & send all the dialogue. I'll clean it up a bit first, address, date info etc., & it starts at the bottem of the page.
From: <tpigeon@dancingbuffaloproductions.com>

Subject: Re: Episode 13: VELVET CARIBOU
Date: March 28, 2006 2:51 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. Keep watching the show/thomas.
---
Thomas Pigeon
Dancing Buffalo Productions Inc.
producers of Canada In The Rough

On Mar 28, 2006, at 5:35 PM, Johnn wrote:

The fact that you cleanly missed isn't the problem. Life isn't
perfect. There will probably be occassions or circumstances where
we would all miss the shot. My problem was more with the conscious
decission made to take a very low percentage unethicial shot.
Consider the field circumstances especially with the first shot at
the Caribou. The angle and animal direction on the second shot was
far from acceptable as well. The icing on the cake was the comments
made reguarding other long shots on the hunt taken & missed! Then I
feel, the whole error was compounded by the decission to air. To the non hunting viewers, it puts the sport in a bad light. Also keep in mind there are probably a number of junior hunters, just getting started that may have viewed the show. Doesn't act to set a good example for them. Very inappropriate & unprofessional. Surely there are better examples you can and could have used to show "what can go wrong in the field". A starting point for correction may be
to put a statement of clarification at the commencement of the next
show. It takes all the argumentative 'wind out of the sails' when
there is an admittance of 'possible' wrong doing. I do enjoy the
show but in this day in age, the intent to show and strive for
ethics must be visable. Anything less is unacceptable.

- Johnn

From: tpigeon@dancingbuffaloproductions.com
To: Johnn (j-speterson@shaw.ca)>

Thanks for your e mail. It's interesting that the bow-hunting
fraternity have such a problem with this show (And they do). Yours
is not the first e mail we've received on this. Interestingly we
have not had one e mail from anti hunters expressing outrage that
we cleanly missed.

Different than other hunting shows we elected to show real life
what can go wrong in the field. Not every shot is perfect and
hosts or on camera hunters are not always superhuman as many US
originating shows have made them appear to be. . In this case as I
noted during the show, I was not properly equipped and or /prepared
for the field conditions and animal behaviour we encountered, and
rightly or wrongly I elected to show what can go wrong. I have
observed rifle hunters, shotgunners, black powder hunters and more
do some pretty spectacular misses at moving animals and get away
with it. I have also observed very capable archers take down
moving and in some cases running game by well placed , well led,
shots. This is more routine than you might think in western canada
for instance where bow shots are often in the 40 yard plus range
and animals are in the wide open rarely presenting a standing still perfect eastern whitetail style broadside shot.
I take your point though . This episode will not re-air and we
have heard loud and clear the concerns of the archery community.
Thanks again for writing and keep watching the show.

Thomas Pigeon



From: Johnn
To: rdistefano@dancingbuffaloproductions.com
Subject: Episode 13: VELVET CARIBOU

Good morning;

Love your shows but as a bow hunter I have to question the
decission to take, & show, such unethical shots. Specifically the
first one. The animal was trotting, a strong wind was blowing and
the range appeared considerably less than ideal, possibly 45 M +.
A good recipe for a wounded animal. The second shot was
questionable at best. The animal was quartering toward the
shooter, a shot that doesn't provide the opportunity for a high
degree of success. Further more, the shooter obviously had no
idea of the range involved. Again, not an ethical portrayal of
bow hunting.

- Johnn

[bsa30-06]

Thanxs hummer, thats pretty much what i thought they would say.I'm glad to hear that they had alot of responses to that show, hopefully they will think twice about airing something like that again.I know you don't always get the perfect shot I passed on 2 animals last year and would have rather have seen him do that and explain why he did not take the shot so that younger hunters or people just getting started could see that even the pro's don't make every shot.

[The 'Hummer']

Thanxs hummer, thats pretty much what i thought they would say.I'm glad to hear that they had alot of responses to that show, hopefully they will think twice about airing something like that again.I know you don't always get the perfect shot I passed on 2 animals last year and would have rather have seen him do that and explain why he did not take the shot so that younger hunters or people just getting started could see that even the pro's don't make every shot.

I've been 'at' the archery thing for about three years, had a couple of chances at Does but I've kinda' promised myself a Buck for the first one. So far, the Buck's are batting a 1000, & me, 0. Oh well, if it was real easy, everyone would be doing it. I have no intentions of giving up any of my firearms, but I do enjoy archery. Good talking to you. Hope in the end all our efforts pay off.:grin:

[willyqbc]

yep...got the exact same email back from them

Chris

[huntwriter]

That's more or less the same response I got. It's a standart letter saying basically. "We read what you had to say but we do not care what you think."

The hint he dropped about "bowhunters complaining" just showed me how ignorant he is. Never liked the guy and now I have a reason not ot like him. Sad but true.

Of course they wont re-broadcast it again, but they will turn it into a video in just about four month time from now.

The down right stubidity for calling US hunters the super humans and that he showed the real hunting basically shows me how ignorant he really is. The good news here is if he is in business as he is in these letters then he wont last long on the TV screen.

[Johnnybear]

Good or bad it's about the only hunting show we have up here and to the left. I don't like the guy either but I don't have a satelite to get the american shows so I just watch in bewilderment.

[ruger#1]

i don't understand why people are allowed to watch murder, robberies and people getting run over by cars, and we cant watch any decent Canadian wildlife, and hunting shows, lets just hope that the Conservatives turn it around a bit.

[Walksalot]

I don't get to excited about watching hunting shows as they are all mostly kill flicks. I find myself wanting to scream at the television and try to get the little buggers to run.:biggrin: As mentioned before, to watch a "how to" video where one might pick up some tips on hunting I find very interesting.

If a parent wants to teach his/her son/daughter shot placement on animals don't rent a video just take them to a local 3D archery shoot and ask to join a group of shooters, even volunteer to keep score :D and they will soon see where the kill zones are.:idea:

[The 'Hummer']

I agree walksalot. I'm on cable, at the moment and haven't been able to find any good 'how to' type hunting shows. Do you know of any?:?:

[TBark]

Hi Guys, new member here.
I do like the CITR show, but they do show a few things on hunts that they maybe shouldn't do, or show. Over-all pretty good programming, IMO.
I had a dealing with their producers in the recent past regarding a new product that they were very interested in using from time to time on the show. Canadian show, Canadian made... A great viewer interest topic too.
bottom line was they wanted a lot of product and cash to use my product even though I offered them one item to use and compare to other like items to determin the better product. Didn't matter, money & product.
No further emails betwen us, too bad.

TBark

[CanuckShooter]

Like anything else offered on tv..if you don't like it you always have the option to change channels. It's all we have..so I watch it when the topic is of any interest...no muskox and walrus for me...

[The 'Hummer']

Like anything else offered on tv..if you don't like it you always have the option to change channels. It's all we have..so I watch it when the topic is of any interest...no muskox and walrus for me...

True enough. For the most part, I like the show and in this case, I liked the topic of interest.:smile: The bone of contention was the unsportsman like conduct shown in taking the archery shots they took.:-( The sport gets enough bad press as it is. We don't need to show graphic examples on a weekly hunting show.:!: