Tough arrows

[Grantmac]

Alright folks it's opinion time.

I'm after the absolute toughest set of carbon arrows I can find, weight is secondary.

I shoot the bags on the Malahat 2-4 times a week and that place is murder on arrows (couldn't be my technique).

Don't bother recommending Beeman Hunters or PSE X-weaves, I go through those like they are wood.

I'd like to actually loose a full set before they fall apart, most don't make it past the first set of fletches.

So bring out all your opinions and have a nice civil argument for me ;)

Cheers,
Grant

[Ambush]

Learn to hit the target.

Arrows don't "...just fall apart"

[Kody94]

What do you do to go through arrows that quick?

FWIW, I use Easton ST Axis Obsessions and have only wrecked one in three years.

[Ron.C]

Sorry to ask, but what are you shooting at to go through all these arrrows??? I have used Beaman Hunters for over 5 years shooting from a compound. The only time I break one is when I completly miss a 3d target during practice "my own fault", someone hits my arrow during a 3d "shit happens", or I bust one on a pass through shot of an animal "part of bowhunting".

[Grantmac]

I guess I should be more specific.

I shoot only traditional and I push out the distances that I'm comfortable making shots at everytime I shoot (unless I'm working on my short game). I rarely shoot marked distances. Frequent shots between trees and over obsticals are a part of my practise routine.

Right now I'm fairly comfortable hitting the bags well out to 30-40ish yards depending on the shot, but I'd like to extend that out a ways further. There always seems to be that one shot at a 3D that is further then I think I can make, so I practice further then I can expect to see on set for me.

When I shot a compound I never did break a carbon shaft, probably because it was very rare to miss something the size of a bag inside 40 yards. The technology took most of the fun out of archery for me, so I went back to the simple side.

Basically I will never take an easy shot in practice unless I'm warming up. It makes all of the shots for 3D and hunting seem that much easier.

Cheers,
Grant

[Ron.C]

PM Hermit or Onesock. I know they both shoot carbon arrows with a traditional bow. Maybe they can suggest something

[huntwriter]

I guess I should be more specific.

I shoot only traditional and I push out the distances that I'm comfortable making shots at everytime I shoot (unless I'm working on my short game). I rarely shoot marked distances. Frequent shots between trees and over obsticals are a part of my practise routine.

Right now I'm fairly comfortable hitting the bags well out to 30-40ish yards depending on the shot, but I'd like to extend that out a ways further. There always seems to be that one shot at a 3D that is further then I think I can make, so I practice further then I can expect to see on set for me.

When I shot a compound I never did break a carbon shaft, probably because it was very rare to miss something the size of a bag inside 40 yards. The technology took most of the fun out of archery for me, so I went back to the simple side.

Basically I will never take an easy shot in practice unless I'm warming up. It makes all of the shots for 3D and hunting seem that much easier.

Cheers,
Grant

Take shorter shots until your hand eye coordination is perfect and then increase the distance a few more yards. The biggest mistake a traditional (instinctive shooter) can make is to keep switching distances back and forth before the hand eye ordination has settled at one particular distance. The next mistake is to change distances radically from lets say 20 to 30 yards or more. Use small increments of distance and permit the brain do make the necessary adjustments. Once you're instinctive at all distances then you can go wild and keep practicing invariably at all distances and from any angle and position. First get the distances ingrained the rest will fall in place. It will safe you a lot of broken arrows.

Of course it also could be as simple as a concentration problem. To become truly good at instinctive shooting you have to erase everything in your mind and only concentrate on that one tiny spot.

[Grantmac]

I agree completely with what your say Huntwriter, if I was new to traditional archery I'd be taking that approach; but new was about 15 years back (with a small hiatus). Thats how I shoot after an absense from the bow (I travel with work for extended periods) or when I am learning a new bow/arrows, but then it's off to unmarked ranges and 3Ds.

I've shot out to 70m on a FITA range with my longbow on more than one occasion (and made hits once I was accustomed to it) without hurting an arrow doing it. However that doesn't help me make that 25 yard uphill shot while balancing on a loose log with the shooting peg stuck in it.

It's these damn rocks and trees that are a killer up here. If you've ever shot a 3D at VFGPA then you know what I'm on about.

Whats happening is just a process of challenging myself and then seeing the result. I figure if I'm not missing then I'm not being challenged. Its not even that I miss much, but the cumulative effect over a lot of practice takes it's tole.
Of course shooting exclusively after work during the week may be affecting my concentration. If I'm having an off day I keep the distances reasonable and work on something simple like my loose or alternate positions.

So lets just sweep the technique comments aside and just think about what arrows you would take to shoot a 25 animal round of steel bears and that should pretty much cover my practise routine:mrgreen:

-Grant

[huntwriter]

It's these damn rocks and trees that are a killer up here. If you've ever shot a 3D at VFGPA then you know what I'm on about.



Say no more.:mrgreen: I know what you're talking about. Unfortunately there are no arrows on the market yet made for stone deer. Every arrow no matter what material will break on stones and trees.

[mikeinajeep]

Fire bolts seem tough has a bag of rocks. I don't know if they make them for bows but they take big X-bow shooting.

[mikeinajeep]

I looked around the net and it seems the fire bolts are only for X-bows. Sorry

[greybark]

:wink: Hey Grantmac , One basic difference between Modern and Traditional shooting is the fact that many more arrows bite the dust during practice .
:mrgreen: Getting better with a Trad bow involves launching arrows at the next NEW yardage , setting a new MENTAL PIN and suffering the sound of missed arrows . That however is how you improve and know your limits . It`s the self imposed challanges (shooting between tree and over obstacles) that stimulate and teach .
Follow the leader(winner of last target) is a hoot that involves lots of shots out of your effective distance that test and tease you .
Don`t worry about broken arrows enjoy them .
:wink: Remember a miss teaches you as much or more as the ten ring even thou it often results in a broken arrow . I`m sure you know this .
:wink: Wood arrows can be made an inch longer then required as they tend to break behind the point . Re-sharpened and pointed results in a free arrow....

[Foxtail]

I have heard the Trophy Ridge arrows are very very durable but unfortunately I haven't been able to get my hands on any...

[Bow Walker]

Grant, as you may know, I just got a Long bow and have been shooting carbons fletched with feathers from it. Being a complete neophyte (as far as traditional goes) I have been missing the target quite a bit - even at closer ranges.

My arrow of choice has always been Gold Tip. I use the Expedition Hunters and/or the XT Hunters. I've hit rocks, metal target stands, trees, the side of my shed, the ground, and sometimes even the target.

Gold Tip shafts have been standing up to all that I throw at them - be it using a compound or traditional. I highly recommend them.

[The Hermit]

Talk to Onesock. He has a bunch of Patriots that are now out of production and can be had at a good price. Anything will break up at the Hat that is for sure so might as well shoot cheap ones for practice then a week before hunting season switch to your preferred hunting arrow and broadhead for practice sessions INSIDE your max hunting distance.

[Coyote]

I hear you and feel your pain re the Malahat. As a long term stick shooter I have a couple of suggestions.

1) stop shooting long distances in that rock pile. Practice your form there by all means but at distances that don't result in buggered equipment.

2) find a place to practice long distance that is easier on your equipment. Vic Bowmen could help you there. Also give stump shooting a try in an area with less rock.

3) When you miss is it because of a hi/low shot or left/right? In general terms left/right can usually be down to form or tuning. Hi/low may just be range estimation. Bottom line here is make sure you and your equipment are tuned properly and that your form is correct and consistent.

4) try footing your carbons with sections of aluminum shafting (you'll need to find the right size). It won't make them indestructable but it could prevent breakage on some hard landings.

Unfortunately the previous posts are right. There is no magic arrow that can withstand pounding on rocks and trees. So back to item 1)

'yote

[horshur]

A sand bank I have found the most forgiving of arrows.....last a year plus. going on my second year.

[Grantmac]

I hear you and feel your pain re the Malahat. As a long term stick shooter I have a couple of suggestions.

1) stop shooting long distances in that rock pile. Practice your form there by all means but at distances that don't result in buggered equipment.

2) find a place to practice long distance that is easier on your equipment. Vic Bowmen could help you there. Also give stump shooting a try in an area with less rock.

3) When you miss is it because of a hi/low shot or left/right? In general terms left/right can usually be down to form or tuning. Hi/low may just be range estimation. Bottom line here is make sure you and your equipment are tuned properly and that your form is correct and consistent.

4) try footing your carbons with sections of aluminum shafting (you'll need to find the right size). It won't make them indestructable but it could prevent breakage on some hard landings.

Unfortunately the previous posts are right. There is no magic arrow that can withstand pounding on rocks and trees. So back to item 1)

'yote


Vic Bowmen is unfortunately no longer an outdoor club, they lost the lease or something. I used to shoot in Duncan but needing a membership at VFGPA for my other shooting activities, I just let my membership lapse.

A nice soft practice place would be brilliant but not likely for some time. I'm almost always missing due to falling short and poor range estimation. To that end I'm going to be trading in my 5" helical fletches for some 3" offsets to try and keep some speed in the arrow.

Well anyway I've just put an order in for some N-fused Axis 500s with Richard at Bucky's. They are supposed to be pretty damn tough so we'll see when they arrive. Only downside is they require the inserts put in with epoxy so I likely won't be able to reuse the insert.
I may finish some of my cane arrows with a 3-fletch flu-flu for cheap practice fodder.

Cheers,
Grant

[IslandHunterBXL]

Try alluminums. Myself and three buddies spend 2-3 days a week at the range. 2 of us shoot alum and 2 of us shoot carbons. ben and dave, shooting the carbons, go through 3-4 TIMES as many arrows as brandon and i who shoot alluminums.

[gitnadoix]

carbon express 150 & 250's but if you want to make them rock and steel proof, wrap the front 1.5" of the shaft with the exact same material that people put line-guides on fishing rods with the thread and epoxy. then do another 1/2 inch on the nock end. This method out of a 56 pound long bow at 15 yards into a steel deer results in a mushroomed field tip, but no arrow damage other than a missing nock. I missied on purpose...no honest I did.......

Anyway this makes these already tough arrows almost rock proof. And I thinks it adds little enough weight that you wont notice it.

[Grantmac]

carbon express 150 & 250's but if you want to make them rock and steel proof, wrap the front 1.5" of the shaft with the exact same material that people put line-guides on fishing rods with the thread and epoxy. then do another 1/2 inch on the nock end. This method out of a 56 pound long bow at 15 yards into a steel deer results in a mushroomed field tip, but no arrow damage other than a missing nock. I missied on purpose...no honest I did.......

Anyway this makes these already tough arrows almost rock proof. And I thinks it adds little enough weight that you wont notice it.

Thats pretty brilliant! I may have to give that a whirl with my next set of arrows.

Any idea where I guy would get that stuff?

-Grant

[Bow Walker]

That's a good idea for adding some weight where needed. Thanks for posting it up.

Grant, try using serving thread - it's just the right size.

[gitnadoix]

The serving thread works great too as I have used it for the wrapping. It may even be a bit stronger. As for the two part epoxy that you coat the threads in I imagine that even supper glue etc would work I had just replaced some rod eyes so had the two part epoxy laying around which you can get at any fishing supply place that sells rod blanks.

I have also done it with cutting off a little section of a aluminium arrow but and using it as a sort of splint over top and glued in place. But find the thread wrap simpler and cleaner.