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Bow Walker
11-17-2009, 07:09 PM
Well, as some may or may not have heard, I just got a longbow. A Bamboo-backed Hickory longbow to be exact.

The brace height is within parameters, and the draw weight is as specified - but I want to put a nocking point on the string.

Time for the "newbie/dumb" question here...

Is the nocking point established at 1/8" above or below the level mark?

Just wanna be right before I do anything wrong.

Blacktail
11-17-2009, 07:34 PM
try starting with around 5/8 of an inch above the level nock point.

you need more clearance off the shelf than you do with a compound.
Kinda put the compound tuning shit at the back of your mind.It doesn't work the same with a stick

For arrows,try those that are spined 5 pounds lighter than what you think you should be

Onesock
11-17-2009, 09:43 PM
As Roy saiid start at 5/8 of an inch above level. If you are shooting carbons you will end up about 1/2 inch above level. Start the brace height at about 7 inches and go from there. Your bow will shoot the best at the lowest brace height that you can make work. I would also think you should be 5-10 lbs under spined on your arrows from where you think you should be. Thats it, go fling and fine tune from there. Once you get form established you can start to bare shaft your arrows to fine tune it.

Bow Walker
11-17-2009, 10:23 PM
Thanks you two.

Who'd of thunk it?!? Underspined is better? Wierd. I made up some Gold tip 7595's for their stiffness. 6 arrows at full length and the other 6 cut down by about 4.5 inches.

Looks like I went the wrong way and should have gone with the 3555's instead.

I will try the nocking point at the 5/8" mark and see how she shoots. All things being equal (and if the skies don't open up - again) I'll be able to fling my first few arrows tomorrow, while working(?) at Eagle Eye.

Thanks again.

Bow Walker
11-17-2009, 10:25 PM
Oh, yeah - Roy...I have tucked the compound tuning stuff into my back pocket for the time being. That's why I posted up here to get the straight goods. Thanks for the advice.

houndogger
11-17-2009, 11:55 PM
Leave your arrows long to begin tuning. Shorten in quarter inch cuts to fine tune for perfect arrows. You already know your knocking point for up and down. If you arrows are over spinned and you don't want to shoot a longer arrow you can increase your tips. Start your bare shaft shooting at 5yards and move back as you get the results you are looking for. I also like to use paper tuning with feathers on if you don't want to use a bare shaft. Just starting out I would increase your brace height above 7 inches for starting out. Way more forgiving if you are used to shooting a release with your compound.

I guided Denny Sturgis Jr. this fall for moose. He sent me his masters of the barebow set. 3 videos and a must for stick shooters in my oppion. Has world champion barebow shooters to the world famous longbow hunters. Has improved my shooting.

Your hooked now.:mrgreen:

Onesock
11-18-2009, 07:50 AM
:-DYour shooting needed improving!!!!!!LOL

Bow Walker
11-18-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm finding that the string needs stretching and the bow seems to like being flexed a bit.

I was told (via the included instruction sheet) not to leave the bow strung for more than 8 hours maximum.

But. I am reading "Traditional Archery" by Sam Fadala (ISBN0-8117-29433-5 Stackpole publishers) that specifically states that it is beneficial to wax the string "heavily", string the bow, and leave it "overnight" to stretch out the string a bit and to "flex" the bow. All this is prior to establishing a preliminary nocking point.

While at work today, I left the bow strung (after flinging a dozen or so arrows) and just after lunch I found that my brace height or fistmele had change by a good 1/2". So I unstrung the bow and twisted the string to re-establish the 7" fistmele and am going to leave it overnight to see the results.

After the string settles in a bit more, and I have shot a few more arrows, I will start the tuning process.

Any thoughts?

J_T
11-18-2009, 08:01 PM
BW. I've left my recurves strung for a while. My primary hunting Chekmate Takedown has been strung for 14 years..... My sons chekmate crusader was bought in 1992 and it's been strung for most of those years.

The info everyone has given you above is perfect. I agree with 5/8's and softer spined arrows on the longbow.

Something to think about depending on how you are going to split your fingers around the nocking point. 2 under and 1 over? If you do that, consider nocking your arrow on top of your string noc. I don't do that, but I have friends who do and it's easier on the fingers and the arrows do seem to fly better for them. I hope to make that transition the next time I have my string let off and I'm tinkering.

But I've got whities to kill right now so I won't be tinkering with my set up for a bit.

JT

Bow Walker
11-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Thanks for the tip J_T, I'll try that for sure as I do shoot the Euro method of one over and two under.

I can't get my head around softer spined arrows for longbows though. Has it got to do with the flex of the shaft as it leaves the bow (archer's paradox) regarding traditional as opposed to compound?

I shot cut-down GT 7595's (28.5") today - without the benefit of a nocking point on the string - and they seemed to fly pretty darned good. While shooting I did pay particular attention to nocking the arrow in a somewhat level position and this seemed to be the better spot.

All this is just preliminary shooting though.

I certainly appreciate all the input thus far, too.

horshur
11-18-2009, 09:18 PM
Archers Paradox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzWrcpzuAp8&feature=related

M@B
11-18-2009, 09:18 PM
BW You nailed it right on the head with the archers paradox comment. most(if not all) long bows and even a lot of recurves are not center shot. true center shot bows(like compounds and some recurves) will fire stiffer arrows as they don't need to flex around the riser.

As for your bow string. It's a flemish twist I'd assume with that much stretch. I twist my own strings. I twist them quite tight when I'm doing it too. I usually get about 1/2"-5/8" of stretch out of it before it settles in.
If you have already got 1/2" out of'er she's probably settled in.
If you leave it strung over night it will get most if not all the stretch out.
I string mine up, wax it up, draw it a dozon times and set it in the corner over night. Next day I serve it. I don't find it stretches anymore after that.

As for leaving your bow strung. For all wood bows like yours, it will last much longer if left unstrung when not in use but, leaving it strung for long periods (ei: all day) won't kill it. I would imagine the 8 hour deadline Jim gave you would equal a day hunting type thing. All wood bows WILL take "set" after a while. meaning the bow will slowly start to keep the profile of a strung bow. So the more you keep it unstrung the better.

Post a pic of that sucker!

Regards, Matt.

Bow Walker
11-19-2009, 06:14 PM
horshur - I'd forgotten how the string on a finger-shot bow goes "sideways" before going towards the riser! Took that cool video to remind me. That movement of the string imparts a heckova lot of paradox into the arrow as it begins its journey.

The one where the arrow almost wraps itself around the riser before clearing the shelf is particularily interesting.

Bow Walker
11-19-2009, 06:58 PM
BW You nailed it right on the head with the archers paradox comment. most(if not all) long bows and even a lot of recurves are not center shot. true center shot bows(like compounds and some recurves) will fire stiffer arrows as they don't need to flex around the riser.

As for your bow string. It's a flemish twist I'd assume with that much stretch. I twist my own strings. I twist them quite tight when I'm doing it too. I usually get about 1/2"-5/8" of stretch out of it before it settles in.
If you have already got 1/2" out of'er she's probably settled in.
If you leave it strung over night it will get most if not all the stretch out.
I string mine up, wax it up, draw it a dozon times and set it in the corner over night. Next day I serve it. I don't find it stretches anymore after that.

As for leaving your bow strung. For all wood bows like yours, it will last much longer if left unstrung when not in use but, leaving it strung for long periods (ei: all day) won't kill it. I would imagine the 8 hour deadline Jim gave you would equal a day hunting type thing. All wood bows WILL take "set" after a while. meaning the bow will slowly start to keep the profile of a strung bow. So the more you keep it unstrung the better.

Post a pic of that sucker!

Regards, Matt.
This particular bow does have a cutout - although it isn't cut as far as center shot. That's probably why I can get away with shooting the stiffer arrows than what would be "normal" for the poundage (45-50 @ 28").

When I checked the bow this morning, after leaving it strung overnight, it had relaxed back to a 6.5" brace height from the 7" I had twisted it to last night. Seems that the string was in no way pre-stretched before being shipped.:mad:.......

...and yes, the bow is beginning to acquire a bit of a "set" from being strung. Not a definite set from which it can't relax, but a noticeable one. If the gerschtunken weather would co-operate I could at least get out there and shoot the string in. Much more fun than sitting and watching the bow get a permanent set.:) BTW, I have no intention of leaving it strung for any longer than I am either shooting or hunting with it.:wink:

There are (as I recall) two types of strings for traditional bows, Flemish Twist, and ...(I forget the other one). What are the differences? Is one better than the other? Is one for Recurves and the other for Longbows?


Is it difficult to make a bow string for longbows?

Blacktail
11-19-2009, 07:56 PM
I can make you a flemish for you if you like:tongue:

A true flemish is a three ply string twisted as it is built.A handlaid string is a 2 ply string that is somewhat quicker and easier to build.
The true flemish is a better string as the individual plies lay into each other tighter and bond better making it less bulky and quieter when shooting.

M@B
11-19-2009, 08:33 PM
Hey BW, I would assume that the string will countinue stretching if it was twisted fairly loose. As I said before, when I twist mine up, I twist them very tight. My fingers are on fire after twisting one up!!lol! So I would think that's why I only get very minimal stretch with my strings. Yours will stop stretching eventually, I promise.

There are two types of strings, the traditional flemish twist and the endless loop string. Endless loop strings are used on alot of "modern" bows. they're even used on compound bows with cables. I'm not sure how they string really new compunds that don't use cables as I'm by no means an expert on compound bows.
Both strings have their place and their benefits. Endless loops strings are very easy to make. you can make them to the exact lenth you want. There is Zero "break in" period. you can make a pile of them in no time so you have enough strings to last a life time while you are watching the hockey game.
The cons of this style of string are: Serving! there is soooo much serving involved for both loops and the middle of the string. Also durablility, they are nowhere near as durable as a flemish twist.

Flemish Twist pro's: Durable. plain and simple. wax'em enough they'll last a very long time.
Very little serving involved(I don't know why this is an issue with me but, I hate serving!) Once settled in they are as stretch free as any string. Not to mention that they look bad ass.
Con's: Harder to make, longer "break in" period.

I personaly make alot of both but, all my personal bows have flemish twist strings. Why? simple, the durablity. One less thing to worry about when I draw on a critter(and they look bad ass....did I mention that before?).

As for the set your bow is taking. Don't worry about it. it will probably take a little more set(being a new born) then it'll settle and take little to no set after it's broken in(if cared for properly).

M@B
11-19-2009, 08:36 PM
One more thing. making a bow string isn't hard. it takes a little practice but hard, not really. PM me if you need a string made up.

Bow Walker
11-20-2009, 10:37 PM
I finally got a pic of the bow (as requested), so here goes.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Nov_20_2009_008.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=16335)

74" of pure fun.

houndogger
11-21-2009, 12:30 AM
:-DYour shooting needed improving!!!!!!LOL
Is that a threat to do a few 3Ds next year:mrgreen:

Bow Walker
11-21-2009, 10:00 AM
..and yes - that's my dog's bed. I got her permission (as per the "pussy whipped hunters" thread).

I measured the weight of the bow - listed as 45 - 50 lbs @ 28 inches inches - by using a hanging electronic scale and a draw indicator arrow. I slowly pulled down on the bow and took note of the weight when I reached 28 inches. The weight shown on the scale was 57 lbs., verified by a co-worker.

Is that normal? I'd ordered a 45-50 lb bow, and that's what is written on the riser. But I think there's been a mistake, or do the bows "relax" into their proper weight range after a bit?

I've shot about 20 - 24 arrows from the bow (due to the pissin' rain keeping me indoors) and am finding it a tad uncomfortable.

Any thoughts?

Onesock
11-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Hopefully that remark will get you out shooting your stick again!!! I hope..

Bowzone_Mikey
11-21-2009, 11:15 AM
Thats a sweet looking Bow there BW ...

as for the weight discreptancy ... they are hand made .... did you measure from the front of the riser or the rear ... could be a discreptancy in scales .... I know that my personal hand held draw scale measures light my 60 pound 101st for example when maxed out measures only 55# peak weight ... the Birth cert says 61 and 4 other scales I have tried say anywhere from 54 to 62 .... that said I build my 3d arrows for a 62 pound bow (313 grains total weight) at 29" draw I get about 310 fps (IBO rating is 320 something ...) but thats for a differant thread

I would imagine that the weight would settle out a bit after use .... also how preloaded are your limbs??? I thought I read something about string twisting to get back to BH spec ?

M@B
11-21-2009, 01:18 PM
That is a nice unit there! 57lbs is a little high. could be the scale but, if it feels uncomfortable it probably isn't the scale. It will loose a bit of wieght after it's shot in. Pass a couple hunderend arrows through it and it will probably come down to 50-55 It'll never loose 10 pounds though. it would have to be re-tillered if you want a 45(ish)lbs bow.

Bow Walker
11-21-2009, 06:22 PM
I talked with Jim and he says that the bow will likely lose about 3lbs max after a lot of shooting. He wants it shipped back to him for evaluation and/or replacement. He wants to "make it right". Gotta love that.

Can I expect to pay more customs duty when the bow crosses the border to me again?

BTW - the string did stretch another 1/4" overnite. Seems it's made of "Hemp that is bow-quality". Just when I'm getting to know this bow it's gotta go back!

Bowzone_Mikey
11-22-2009, 09:55 AM
you shouldnt as long as you and "Jim" state that the bow is warrantee /repair .... expect some sort of brokerage fee tho depending on who you use to ship

I reccoment post office ... 5 bucks typically for brokerage ...

Bow Walker
11-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Yeah Mike, I learned early on that the USPS is the cheapest way to go - and, very often the fastest to boot!:wink:

I'm packaging her up today and will go into the P.O. tomorrow to start the process. I'm missing the "plinking" already.:(

BTW, has anyone ever read the book titled "Traditional Archery" by Sam Fadala? It's an older book, but the info is still very relevant today. Tons of info on longbows and recurves, arrows, gloves/tabs, strings, and shooting. Makes for a great read even if you're not a traditional bow shooter. :)