Back from elk / antelope in Utah

[David Heitsman]

Just returned from a 10 day elk and antelope hunt in Utah. I hunted antelope in the desert near Duchesne.
Saw a few bucks and took the 2nd best I could find
with my new Bansner's rifle. This is a pretty easy hunt as you drive most places till you find and then initiate a stalk.

The elk was a landowners tag I bought north of Vernal that bordered a huge BLM (crown) reserve. I spent four days in there staying at a ranch cabin at 8,000 foot level. Got onto about 6 different bulls with the best in the 310" class. The area holds 350" plus bulls and we had one a couple weeks prior on the trail cam that pushed the 375" mark so I kept holding out
hoping that a big one might come in for the herd of cows we were monitoring.

Wasn't to be this year and I was disapointed at the short 8 days season. I'd like to see it longer for out of staters to be able to try and come back. The locals get two seasons for elk. However of the six of us hunting that week I was the only one who didn't take a bull.
The weather was in the 30's daily even at that elevation and the elk tended to get nocturnal to avoid the heat.


The mule deer in this area are exeptional. I'd say the ratio is 3 - 4 to 1 / does vs bucks with at least 4 of the
50 bucks I saw in 4 days exceeding the 170" mark. It was pretty unreal to see batchelor groups of up to a dozen bucks at a time. Utah has excellent trophy game management and is producing some great trophy hunting opportunities. Hat's off to their beaurocrats who emphasize quality over quantity.

Won't likely go back however unless I can draw as the cost is high.

I didn't have an antelope yet so it's one less on my "29 quest" to go.

[bearass]

All in all sounds like you had a good trip.Sounds like fun. Did you ask them how they manage there mule deer?

[Devilbear]

Just returned from a 10 day elk and antelope hunt in Utah. Utah has excellent trophy game management and is producing some great trophy hunting opportunities. Hat's off to their beaurocrats who emphasize quality over quantity.

Won't likely go back however unless I can draw as the cost is high.

The cost is high and they manage for ...quality..., eh? It seems to me that they "manage" for commericial trophy collecting by wealthy people and discriminate against those humble "average" hunters who cannot afford such rarified pursuits as "trophy" collecting.

This attitude is exactly what we DO NOT WANT here in B.C., as OUR hunting tradition is based on getting meat for your family and this is, IMO, THE best reason to hunt.

There is FAR too much Yankee influence and interference in Canada, now, we do not need to emulate their hunting practices and favouritism shown to the wealthy.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Pretty sad that we let the masses of peasant hunters ruin it for the all the rich hunters here in BC:roll:.

Glad you had a good time:|.

As you can tell by past threads here on HBC we have some pretty damn nice mule deer and elk hunting here in BC. Just have to work for them.

SSS

[BiG Boar]

Congradulations on a great hunt. Would love to see pictures of it!

[6616]

I was disapointed at the short 8 days season.

Hat's off to their beaurocrats who emphasize quality over quantity.

Contradictions....?
We can have trophy management in BC too, it just means killing fewer animals, and it might mean 8 day GOS seasons for all species all across the province.

[David Heitsman]

The cost is high for those who don't draw. The residents draw any of the trophy areas within 7 years or sooner. That's because they have implemented a preference system which BC insists is coming but haven't seen it yet.

The tags you can buy are given to the landowners in exchange for reducing cattle grazing and providing and maintaining water source to the game even when the cattle are moved off the ranges. Seems like we could try that here too. The tags are also taken away when the ranches are subdivided so this provides incentives to maintain large tracts.

As to techniques they use, I'm not sure. It's just that the kill is limited and this lets them grow up as you are reluctant to kill a young animal on a draw you waited for knowing that the trophy potential is high.

As to Utah meat hunters, there is a lot of cow elk available for cheap as some are allocated to the ranchers as well and they can barely give them away.

There is also non-managed areas in the state where the 'masses of peasant hunters" can hunt with over the counter tags. I glassed into some of this near the Diamond Slope and could see herds of deer. Plenty of bucks as well but too far to judge quality.

[Devilbear]

The situation in the western USA is far different in respect of land ownership/alienation and historical development as well as hunting traditions than is the case here in B.C. Due to "limiting factors" that affect ALL populations of "game" as well as other organisms, the sort of "stockpiling" of Elk, Mulies and so forth that can, to some extent, be done there will not work here.

I also take exception to the use of the adjective, "quality" in respect of hunting, as my concern is, WHO defines WHAT this means? To me, the real quality in a hunt is to hunt wild, free-ranging and freely-evolving animals in a non-strictured and wild environment and to harvest these so that the populations remain as they evolve in terms of sex ratios and age classes.

This is destroyed by so-called "trophy management", which reduces magnificent free, wild animals to a sort of "barn stock", manipulated by tame "bios" to provide ego-satisfaction for quadhuggers who shoot them....even at feeders.

We can certainly improve ALL aspects of environmental management here in B.C. and I hope to see a government actually DO this before I am too old to hunt, but, a programme that gives preference to "trophy hunting" will not do what I think most B.C. hunters want.

I DO agree with landowners being well compensated for assisting with preserving wildlife habitat and am willing to pay more for licences to further that process, BUT, I would like to see some carefully regulated access to such lands for RESIDENT hunters if we do provide such compensation...."quid pro quo".

We DO NOT NEED ...a preference system... or ANY increase in "draw" access to OUR game here in B.C.; we NEED to BAN ALL foreign hunting here and keep our game for ourselves and to share with our fellow Canucks who live in other jurisdictions in "The Great White North."

[David Heitsman]

Devilbear,

Your thoughts are a tad narrow minded for me but hey it's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.

Most of the Utah landowner tags are sold to Utahns who didn't get the draw that year, according to my outfitter. The fact that they are willing to pay 10 - 15K for a decent area only shows how much they enjoy hunting.

In BC we are no different, especially when you look at the large increase in resident hunters employing BC outfitters. Some of us are just as into it as our US hunting fanatic counterparts.

[hntcrazy]

Hunt at home spend money at home keep it at home ......
And Thats That

[Gateholio]

Why don't you guys that wish to discuss the politics involved with hunting in Utah, quality vs quantity, land owner tags ,where you spend your money etc etc etc and start a new thread about it?

Me, I just would like to see some pics of the pronghorn, I've been looking at a Wyoming pronghorn hunt, I've always thought pronghorn looked really interesting in a strange way and always wanted to try hunting them, even if it is a F250 spot and stalk.:-D

Any issues with your rifle at the border?

[Johnnybear]

David congrats to you for your ability to go on these hunts. I too would like to see your photos of the hunt and some details etc.:grin:.

Devil bear as much as I agree with alot that you post and admire your passion about it (I am a meat hunter and a resident of B.C.). The man is posting about an out of Province hunt and most on here would like to see some photos and more of the story.

Please continue with this out of Province hunting experience.

[6616]

Any issues with your rifle at the border?

I've been to Montana and Wyoming hunting antelope several times. First you have to get the draw and receive the license in the mail. Then you send a photocopy of the license with an application to BATF for a permit to bring a rifle into the USA. Timelines are tight.
I think the info is on the CFC site.

[BCrams]

[quote=David Heitsman;519026]The cost is high for those who don't draw. The residents draw any of the trophy areas within 7 years or sooner. That's because they have implemented a preference system which BC insists is coming but haven't seen it yet.

Why would I and many other hunters want to wait to draw a buck tag once every 7 years when I can currently trophy hunt bucks every year????



As to techniques they use, I'm not sure. It's just that the kill is limited and this lets them grow up as you are reluctant to kill a young animal on a draw you waited for knowing that the trophy potential is high.

Once again, why would we want a LEH draw for mule deer bucks when a person can trophy hunt them every year as it is??

Lets be realistic here, most of us aren't like you, where you fly to Alberta, get off the plane, shoot your buck the next day and fly home right away.

[BCrams]

Your thoughts are a tad narrow minded for me but hey it's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.

Opinions are one thing. But when you take your opinions and try to push your agenda with the GOABC and the MOE folks in Victoria, it gets a little more personal for resident hunters.


Most of the Utah landowner tags are sold to Utahns who didn't get the draw that year, according to my outfitter. The fact that they are willing to pay 10 - 15K for a decent area only shows how much they enjoy hunting.

Only for the wealthy. I'd like to have a chat with the average hunters regarding their hunting opportunities.


In BC we are no different, especially when you look at the large increase in resident hunters employing BC outfitters. Some of us are just as into it as our US hunting fanatic counterparts.[/QUOTE]

Large increase? I doubt it.

This is probably why you're a proponent of pushing the Gang ? Empire country into LEH hunting for trophy bucks. With the mentality of, "At least I can afford to pay for a guide to keep hunting while the rest are on LEH."

I won't buy into that system. A little hard work will give you opportunities at trophy bucks.

[bayou]

I would like to see the antelope pictures and utah scenery pictures as well.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Why don't you guys that wish to discuss the politics involved with hunting in Utah, quality vs quantity, land owner tags ,where you spend your money etc etc etc and start a new thread about it?

Me, I just would like to see some pics of the pronghorn, I've been looking at a Wyoming pronghorn hunt, I've always thought pronghorn looked really interesting in a strange way and always wanted to try hunting them, even if it is a F250 spot and stalk.:-D

Any issues with your rifle at the border?



I think most guys feel the same way...would be nice to see some pics and congratulate the hunter....but the person who started the thread made some strong political statements and, thus, set the tone for the rest of the thread:-|. Seems like a conscious effort.

It's attitudes like this that made it necessary to start the resident hunter/angler priority fund.


SSS

[Devilbear]

BCRams and StoneSheepSteve have pretty much posted what I would have said, so, I shall not comment further. My interest is in keeping BC as free of commercial hunting for the wealthy few and open to we residents as is possible.....and, as it happens, I could easily afford any guided hunt I was interested in, anywhere I wanted to go.

[Manglinmike]

Well Dave,it seems that you have set some pants on fire in the old hunting in B.C. locker room! But hey, thats the way it goes sometimes, anyway lets see some of those pics from your trip down south.

[hntcrazy]

Where are the pics????
Bann him if no pics!!!!!!
Let the pictures flow..
And That Is That

[300H&H]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2003/2189568405_c1003315b0.jpg

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

Lets see some pictures.:shock:

[300H&H]

His Choice !

Not For Us To Criticise !!!

[Islandeer]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2003/2189568405_c1003315b0.jpg
Bartel and fans!!

[BCHunterFSJ]

I am glad you enjoyed your hunt. I, for one, see nothing wrong in expanding my hunting horizons through hunting abroad. I also see nothing wrong with "trophy hunting", as most of us trophy hunters also eat the animals we shoot.
Hope to run into you one day on a hunt in some exotic place (going to New Zealand in April).

[calvin L]

David I just a read a great mule deer article in the current bc out doors . I thing bc rams wrote it . It has some great info on mule deer hunting . I hope it will help you out in bc . Good luck in all your up coming hunts :razz:


calvin L

[Camp Cook]

Great to hear yu had a good hunt Dave...

Post some pic's though especially of that new rifle... :)

[Lil Buck]

Bann him no pics........................

[HD95]

Hunters have got to stop slagging other hunters.We have enough enemies out there with-out the fighting from within.

[BCrams]

Fisher Dude...Why critisize ? His choice to hunt where he wants.

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

I personally don't have a problem with where or how he chooses to hunt. Thats his choice.

The issue at hand for Fisher-dude, myself and others is how he pushes the agenda with the GOABC to have those kind of so called "trophy" seasons in place here in BC.

Everyone is entitled to opinion, however to push for trophy seasons like LEH for bucks in the Chilcotin is bound to ignite controversy.

[bsa30-06]

can we see pics of the antelope please.........would like to get one of those myself one day.

[David Heitsman]

Just returned from up north sheep hunting and as soon as 1/2 Slam gets back from his honeymoon I'll post some pics. He's sposed to show me how it's done. I just don't have the time to figure it out. I've tried and am just not enough of an artiste to figure it out.

(Just way too busy pushing my agendas around I guess.)

I do have probably 30 - 40 animals on Trophyphotos.com if people want to look there.

You can skip the ones killed elsewhere than BC if that somehow offends your sense of provincial pride or fear
of flying.

[David Heitsman]

As some are aware, I bought an auction Bansner's rifle at Grand Slam in Vegas this spring. I kept it in the US
till after the Utah hunt as I wasn't sure of the time lines
or stipulations for getting it back to the US.

I registered the gun in Canada which is a dilema in itself as you have to have the gun in Canada in order to register it but you can't bring it into Canada till it's registered.

I called back to Miramichi and was told some constable would call me. He did within a couple days and we figured it out. The issue was verification since it's a custom built and not production rifle they have no record of the manufacturer in their system.

Within a week they got back to me and had established Bansner's as a firearm maker and gave me a verifier code for the forms. The registration is immediate.

I took this form to Canada Customs in Huntingdon and they assured me that and a pile of $$ for the taxes was all that was required.

Meanwhile I had applied to the BATF for a temporary import permit. Here I had to provide the serial number etc, a copy of one of my US hunting licenses and how many rounds I was bringing. The form said it would be done within 8 weeks and I received it by fax within two. There is no charge. I did this since I wanted to use the gun prior to hunting with it if time would allow.

After the hunt, I went to the border and declared the gun. They poured over my documentaion for a half hour and came out to the truck to inspect the serial numbers and caliber. After another half hour they called me to the counter to quiz me on what I had paid for the rifle which came scoped and in a deluxe embroidered aluminum case.

They felt I had under-declared the value by $3,000 and had all the websites up on their screens for the rifle, scope and carrying case. The retail value was indeed more than I had paid but then I explained that Grand Slam had auctioned it and that extra value was why I had bought it. They then looked at Grand Slam on the web, understood what I meant, sent me over to another counter where I paid the taxes and got me on my way.

I should mention that they told me that if you come to the border with a standard rifle from a regular manufacturer that you can import it right there and they will give you PC access to fill out the registration form and get your clearance.

[Devilbear]

You can skip the ones killed elsewhere than BC if that somehow offends your sense of provincial pride or fear
of flying.

You "wonder" WHY some of the very experienced hunters and outdoors people here seem to find your comments and agenda rather offensive.....

[1/2 slam]

David,

I'll be home from Cabo on monday. How'd the sheep trip go?

[huntcoop]

Congrats on what sounded like a fun and successful hunt. Looking forward to some pictures.

People, quit bitching, David is one of us, a hunter, and willing to share some successful experience. Sometimes this site blows with all the bitching and whining.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Selfish agendas abound in our society - especially within the minds of certain executive of WSSBC. One could even go so far as to use the term "Lancaster lapdog".

[frenchbar]

Selfish agendas abound in our society - especially within the minds of certain executive of WSSBC. One could even go so far as to use the term "Lancaster lapdog".
Lancaster Lapdog:lol::lol:

[David Heitsman]

"Lancaster Lapdog"

Since the terms never been used here before yesterday... I guess I and maybe some other conservationists are going to need a translater. Please use the PM as unfortunately, I'm sure it's somehow derogatory.