PDA

View Full Version : Bowhunting Bias



greybark
12-17-2005, 07:10 PM
:mad: Hey Walksalot , Firstly your method of operation was to paint most of traditiion bowhunters as being totally incompetent and then back off a little on your comments when confronted . Thus leaving an "I am dissgusted with Tradition Bowhunters " message behind .
:mad: Now you just launch into a full blown traditional bowhunting bashing , Often hi-jacking a thread to do so (I`m guilty on this one) .
Do the Math , There are many more unfavourable stories in regards to Compound bowhunters compared to Traditional bowhunters for three reasons (1) There are many more Compound bowhunters and (2) Most bowhunters start out the Compound route (I did) . (3) Most Tradies are well past "Must Kill" phase.
:grin: There is a well known Bowhunting Report out in reguards to a Wounding Study at Camp Ridgley in the States that all bowhunters should read (In Particular You Walksalot) . I will try to get the reports summary posted in order to calm our waters a bit.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Walksalot
12-17-2005, 08:53 PM
Greybark, the comments made in the thread you are referring were to answer the totally off the wall comment made by Onesock and I was not the one who initially hi-jacked the thread.

I get sick and tired of these holier than thou traditional bowhunters who think they are God's gift to bowhunting and pureistes to the core.
If the philosiphy of Onesock is that of all traditional archers I think it is totally undemocratic. What's next Greybark, banning compound and crossbow shooters from hunting in your season.

I stand by my comments about the 3D shoots and the proof of the pudding is the scores at the end of the shoots. You guys point fingers at others when you should be cleaning up your own ranks before you start on anyone elses.

Onesock makes totally off the wall comments and now you have to come to his rescue. Well good on you, he needs all the help he can get.

greybark
12-17-2005, 09:23 PM
;-) Hey Walksalot , You were down on Tradies long before Onesock enter the disscussion.
:grin: I posted that I would have some factual information on the various wounding rates of the "trad vs compound" based on actual studies and am working on it.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Walksalot
12-17-2005, 10:07 PM
;-) Hey Walksalot , You were down on Tradies long before Onesock enter the disscussion.
:grin: I posted that I would have some factual information on the various wounding rates of the "trad vs compound" based on actual studies and am working on it.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Greybark, you are absolutely right. I am down on Tradies as you call them because so many go to traditional equipment totally unaware of the time and commitment to constant practice it takes to be come proficient and remain proficient with traditional tackle. I see some traditional guys on the 3D course and cringe when I hear them talk of going hunting. If they had an ounce of respect for the animals they would be carrying a crossbow.

I would be curious as to who paid to have this factual information on wounding compiled.

Onesock
12-17-2005, 10:48 PM
I don't need anyone to "rescue" me as you put it Ridesalot. If YOU new the first thing about traditional equipment you would know that 3D shot distances and hunting ranges are two different things,as I said before. Do you think that because there are 50/60 yard shots on a 3D course that you should be taking them whilst hunting? Sadly mistaken if you do! You said you ride a quad because you have an injured knee. It sounds like you participate in 3D shoots on a regular basis, do you ride your quad there?

ruger#1
12-17-2005, 11:39 PM
as i said before, the only traditional bow hunters are the native Indians, or are you guys trying to fill there pants to, HA HA, once this liberal gov bans guns then they will be after bows next, its just a matter of time.and I'm not giving my bow up. and PS i ride a horse into my hunting spots. so what if walksalot uses an ATV, he hunts and sounds like a proud hunter, maybe he cant walk as far as you can, he still hunts.so put a sock in it one sock, it seems like your always looking for an argument. start fighting for us hunters, instead of fighting us!

willyqbc
12-18-2005, 12:25 AM
just a quick note before this gets out of hand. Express all the opinions you guys want to, but keep it civil. I can see some hard feeling developing here. If this gets ignorant or into any serious personal attacks I will lock it up. Nobody has crossed that line yet....lets keep it that way.

Carry on

Chris

Fred
12-18-2005, 12:26 AM
I have walked the 3D course with Walks and really missed it when I couldn't get out this past season. He does ok on those short easy walks but after a while you can see it getting to him. I would go out with him again anytime if he is willing to put up with me! :biggrin: Fred

Freshtracks
12-18-2005, 12:34 AM
:redface: Something tells me hunting season is over.

Mooseman
12-18-2005, 12:49 AM
:redface: Something tells me hunting season is over.

That. And it is election time !

Walksalot
12-18-2005, 12:55 AM
just a quick note before this gets out of hand. Express all the opinions you guys want to, but keep it civil. I can see some hard feeling developing here. If this gets ignorant or into any serious personal attacks I will lock it up. Nobody has crossed that line yet....lets keep it that way.

Carry on

Chris

No fear Willyqbc, I totally respect their opinion howerver wrong it might be.

Mooseman
12-18-2005, 01:00 AM
Compounds and crossbows are umbeatable for accuracy.
No really. No matter of your weapon there are people that are rude and there are respectful hunters. The choice of weapon is not the determining factor.
After 29 years of guiding hunters from all walks of life I have a statistic that will show you that most wounded animals I have to find with my dogs have come from 300 win mag. shots. Does that mean that all 300 win mag. shooters are wounding all animals???? NO. It means that some of the not very well trained shooters have used that caliber because marketing had made them believe that it is a magic bullet and it will kill everything you look at. Well not quite so I guess.

As a matter of fact, traditional shooters have a very close range on average (under 20 yards) and less then average wound game. That is just my experience and means nothing special.

Onesock is actually a good shot! I would have a hard time to keep up to him.

Compounds and crossbows are unbeatable for accuracy. So are rifles.

Walksalot
12-18-2005, 01:06 AM
I don't need anyone to "rescue" me as you put it Ridesalot. If YOU new the first thing about traditional equipment you would know that 3D shot distances and hunting ranges are two different things,as I said before. Do you think that because there are 50/60 yard shots on a 3D course that you should be taking them whilst hunting? Sadly mistaken if you do! You said you ride a quad because you have an injured knee. It sounds like you participate in 3D shoots on a regular basis, do you ride your quad there?

Onesock, name calling, absolutely brilliant. A feeble attempt at a come back from a guy backed into a corner.

Marc
12-18-2005, 04:26 AM
I've already said this in another post and I'm going to say it again just incase it gets missed.It seems that since the hunting season for most of us has come to an end in most areas that people have nothing better to do but sit behind their computer and vent. I'd hate to think that this site would be degraded because a few grown men can't have a sensible discussion without insulting each other.

sealevel
12-18-2005, 08:01 AM
Its not just just tradies making bad shots at 3d shoots there are archers in all forms making bad shots ( i think 3d permotes bad shots) cause the easy part is learning to shoot the hard part is leaning to judge distance .

Walksalot
12-18-2005, 08:58 AM
Its not just just tradies making bad shots at 3d shoots there are archers in all forms making bad shots ( i think 3d permotes bad shots) cause the easy part is learning to shoot the hard part is leaning to judge distance .

Sealevel, I agree that with a compound bow with fixed sights, peep and release or with a crossbow, with a bit of competent instruction and practice, one can be shooting fairly accurately within a fairly short time frame. The beauty of the compound and crossbow is that after the shooter masters the basics of form the shooter can lay the bow down for a period of time and then return to shooting and within a short time be back in the groove.

With traditional equipment I have to disagree. People go to traditional equipment because it's simplicity but in actuality becoming proficient and remain proficient with traditional equipment is far from simple To become proficient with traditional equipment one has to learn to shoot with fingers and then master the skill of instinctive shooting. This demands a commitment to practice and constant practice which, in my opinion, few archers are willing to commit to.

I laid my compound down for a year and took up traditional tackle which included the 3D circuit. The amount of commitment to practice I found to be over whellming. At the end of that year and just before the start of the bow season I set up a McKenzie deer at 20 yds and flung 30 arrows at it. The net, net was 10 arrows as good killshots and the rest were marginal to down right wounds. I totally missed the target with none. This, in my opinion was totally unacceptable and totally unfair to the animals I was hunting so I sold my traditional equipment and went back to my compound.

We owe it to the animals to be proficient enough to be able to say that the vast majority of shots taken would result in a quick and humane harvest of that animal.

Onesock
12-18-2005, 09:23 AM
I totally agree with your last statement Walksalot. Most traditional bowhunters I know, as well as myself hunt at 15 yards and under.Just because you are not accurate at twenty yards doesn't mean you can't hunt with a stick, just don't shoot twenty yards. As far as practise, it is every day or at least every second day. Sealevel says learning to shoot is the easy part and judging distance is the hard part, I assume this is with a compound and I agree with him. Guys that lay their bow down for months on end and then shoot a few shots before hunting season will end up shooting at 40 yards and wounding animals. Suffice it say, Walksalot, that I don't know you and you don't know me. My argument is that we have to do the best we can so we will be able to keep hunting for years to come. If we do not police ourselves we will loose this great pastime we all enjoy so much. I think you have to agree with me that 40-50 yard shoots off of a quad does not make anybody look good.

CUJO
12-18-2005, 09:31 AM
Walksalot, one thing you are overlooking is ethics. You said at 20 yards you only had 10 kills and marginal kills and wound with the others on a 3-D animal, what if you limited your shots to 10 yards?? I see a ton of deer going within 10 yards of my stand in the past several years. Take the time and set up right and you should have some good luck.

The problems I have seen with xbows have been with gun guys putting in for bowhunting LEH's and getting a xbow a week before the hunt, thus having no experiance at the range of the weapon. All LEH's forms a single person should get should be gun or archery, and if its archery you should have to show the form seller your lisence showing the archery box checked. Thats why I always thought we should have continued the additional charge on the lisence to archers showing true archer numbers and it would also give us extra leverage with gun hunters when fighting for more bow seasons.

Also there is a future to consider, at this point some xbows are shooting up to 375 fps and withing the next couple years will be into the 400 fps, at what point will the xbow become like the muzzleloader did in archery season?


Gotta go to work, someone has to make those terrable traditional weapons...

Mooseman
12-18-2005, 09:49 AM
It is not the weapon that wounds the animal. It is the shooter behind it. Ethics. Boring to some, important to me.

huntwriter
12-18-2005, 10:00 AM
I never really understood what all that controversy about different hunting styles is. But it seems to go on everywhere in North America traditional bow hunters bash the compound bow hunters and both together have a go at the cross bow hunters then the riflehunters get involved too and so on with no end. What gets to me really hard is when hunting organizations of a barticular hunting style give their "input" to the government authorieties which is another form of bashing another hunter weapon types.

What I find particularly sad is that the animal rights movement and anti hunters which lobby governments to ban hunting mostly compile their evidence against hunting from hunting forums like this one. As we speak North Americas biggest anti hunting group, the Humane Society of America merged with another animal rights giant making it the worlds largest anti hunting group with millions in the bank account. This anti hunting giant made it their duty to get rid of all bowhunting by the year 2010.

While this is going on we waist all this valuable energy on bashing each other and delivering material to the anti hunting crowd. Just imagine what we all could achieve if we would spend all that energiy in finding out what unites us as hunters. Namely that we are all enjoying our hunting heritage and the great outdoors and that we all an endagered species which others have determind to get rid of.

I hunt for over 40 years and in all this years I have encountered many "slob" hunters from all walks of live and with all weapon types. I never found that one weapon type brings about more "slobs" than another one. But overallI met more good hunters than "slobs" and this is backed up by a study done some years back which clearly indicates that the hunting sport participants have the highest ethical and moral attidude of all sports, now thats something to be proud of.

In fact it is not the weapon that promotes slobiness or is not a proficient weapon. It is the person behind that weapon which is the deciding factor and not the weapon. Diffierent weapons need diferent skills to master but I would hesitate to say that a hunter who has to dedicate more time to become proficient with his weapon is a better person or more ethical hunter because of it, he is just more dedicated to that weapon style.

I hunt with all weapons because I am a Hunter first and foremost but I will admit that I am better with some weapons than with others. For example I simply do not have the time and the inclination to spend all the time needed to become a good shot with a traditional bow and thus I am only able to take game with it at about 10 yards. Does that make me a "Slob"? Yes, if I listen to some other traditional hunters. Heck, I even have heard from one and the other that I am a "traitor" or "would like to be..".(Some hunters make a religion out of their weapon type, these are the worst once they bash everybody even their own). But personally I don't think so because I know my limits and I am sticking to it and that is really all what it is about, knowing once limits with any given weapon and sticking with it. That to me is what I call ethics, to be honest with one self. How hunter hunt and how they get to their spots be that walking or with ATV, who really cares. Do I road hunt, no but I am not against it either if it works and is legal then it is alright by me even if I do not agree with it. We are different people luckely we are not robots and we are not yet totaly organized and "cultured" by a communist government and thus we still can do what suits us best and that is good so and hopefuly we can keep it that way.
I hope the day will come where we all can spend our energy where we should, on defending our hunting heritage and not our special interests.

ruger#1
12-18-2005, 11:55 AM
very well put. thanks Huntwriter.

bsa30-06
12-18-2005, 12:08 PM
Well put Huntwriter.I wanted to try bowhunting next year and i thought this would have been a good place to try and learn a few things but after reading some of the bowhunting post on here lately i think i'll just stick to my rifle.You guys are scaring me.

houndogger
12-18-2005, 01:09 PM
This is getting old and boring! Hunt the way you want and be dam sure you can hit what you are looking at! Pick a spot!;-)

sealevel
12-18-2005, 05:10 PM
bsa 30-06 don`t let all this keep you from trying archery its a very rewarding sport. Even if you never hunt with a bow if you use a trigger release it will sure help your rifle shooting. All the archers i have met and shot with are realy good guys . every one at sometime on this dammed puter say things a little stronger than they realy mean.

huntwriter
12-18-2005, 07:21 PM
Well put Huntwriter.I wanted to try bowhunting next year and i thought this would have been a good place to try and learn a few things but after reading some of the bowhunting post on here lately i think i'll just stick to my rifle.You guys are scaring me.
bsa30-60- please don't let that stop you from taking up the bow. Do what you think and want to do. It really does not matter what you hunt with or how you hunt there always will be people that will criticize you, it seems to have become very fashionable in resent years and not only in hunting. It seems people are more bored nowadays and thus take up bashing as a relief of frustration.

The important thing is to know that you do not have to justify yourself or explain yourself to anyone but yourself. If you can look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day then that is all that counts and not what other people think or say.

As I said before I am a hunter first and foremost. We only hunt a very short time out of a full year and I never saw any desire to make this time even shorter by limiting myself to one weapon type. I would like to encurage you and others to do the same it ads more time to your season plus is a lot more fun too.

greybark
12-18-2005, 08:38 PM
:) I first read about the "McAlester Wt Management Deer Hunt" several years back in a bowhunting magazine articale . The hunt and study took place in an old Ammunition storage site in the state of Oklahoma.
The biologist in charge of the programn decided on only Traditional archery be involved. Basicly he reasoned that a rifle hunt would harvest the required number of deer out in two weeks and Modern bows in several months , Thus his choise for a sustainable hunt and study.
The study was prlminary a wounding rate investigation and when completed McAlester officials found the Traditional wounding rates were even lower than previous Modern bow seasons .
No stats were provided with this site at http://www.freehunters.org/article.aspx?id=560
My sourse for a detailed bowhunting study is away hunting and I will forward its findings in regards to wounding rates and recovery distances between Traditional and Modren bows when available.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Walksalot
12-19-2005, 06:34 AM
I have read that report also.

I have also read reports of the number of Grizzly bears in British Columbia. They even caused a shut down of the season for a while.

Walksalot
12-19-2005, 08:47 AM
I have walked the 3D course with Walks and really missed it when I couldn't get out this past season. He does ok on those short easy walks but after a while you can see it getting to him. I would go out with him again anytime if he is willing to put up with me! :biggrin: Fred

No, thanks for putting up with me:grin: I enjoyed your company immensely and we will do it again.:grin:

sealevel
12-19-2005, 09:02 AM
I to have walk a couple courses with walksalot and i hope to again.

Fred
12-19-2005, 10:33 AM
I have a desent vehicle under me again and will have to come to a couple of the spring 3d shoots. And this time maybe I will bring the Barnett, or maybe the Mathews! Anyone bristleing yet!! :biggrin: Fred

sealevel
12-19-2005, 11:17 AM
Only about that mathews way would you shoot that boat ancher-----:smile: :smile: :smile: lol

Jetboater
12-19-2005, 11:57 AM
We always had a good chuckle when the tradies were coming back to camp talking about how a buck was at 18 yards, Three yards out of their comfortable range. We used to always bring my old hound up to rock creek to assist in the track jobs left with arrows, now for the record I have shot 5 deer with a traditional bow, but now hunt with a compound, solely because I can not put in the time it takes to be proficient, but We had to track a lot more deer shot with cedar arrows than with aluminum and carbon. Granted there is a select few traditional archer that strive to make the perfect shot, but the majority do not put enough time in. I am not ethically holier than the rest of the bowhunting community, I have made a few poor shots over the years, I have also lost an animal or two, I have also shot over 20 deer with a bow,So I have a chosen to hunt with a compound. when that monster steps out at 35 yards I want to be able to snuff him thats the bottom line, I have a limited amount of time to hunt each year, this year I had to hunt for meat so it was nice when the first buck of the season stepped out a 51 yards I made a great shot and the second one stepped out at 30 yards and I made a decent shot, the second buck needed a second arrow, big deal.

J_T
12-19-2005, 12:13 PM
My only concern with this whole thread is that we are again, continuing to pick each other apart. Rather than act like brothers we are attempting to prove moot points that quite frankly "shouldn't" matter. Of course wounding is an issue and it is important for each of us to ensure we minimize it, but it happens, whether it's a bow (trad, compound crossbow) or a rifle. Are percentages, really that important?

What matters is that we stand together, and it seems because we don't take the time to communicate effectively, there is tremendous risk that what we say will make another angry. I don't think we always post thinking that someone will be upset by our comments, but without body language or verbal tone we are left with the written word. And in most cases, it triggers anger.

If we don't communicate effectively, if we don't stand together as archers, as bowhunters, as hunters, we will most certainly fall as a minority.

I would recommend we stop judging each other so harshly.

JT

python
12-19-2005, 12:42 PM
I like JT's approach. I have hunted 10 years with rifle, 10 years with compound and 10 years with a recurve so I think I can say I have been in everyones camp. Sh_t happens when you hunt, but we must all try to minimize undesirable situations. Taking the time to practice and make good decisions makes us all better hunters and conservationists. That is what is expected of us by society. Be proud to be a bowhunter. It is a term not to be used lightly. You earn the term "Bowhunter" through dedication, skill and knowledge.
Let's all remember that bowhunting is an up close endeavor. It is not a 3-D course. These are real live animals which demand respect if we are to take their lives. Again, get closer then you think your abilities allow. You owe it to the animal.

Merry Christmas

Walksalot
12-19-2005, 05:55 PM
I to have walk a couple courses with walksalot and i hope to again.
I look foreward to it also.:grin:

Avalanche123
12-19-2005, 10:01 PM
I agree with your statements Python and JT. Good points.
And Mooseman, Nice avatar!

Merry Xmas Folks, no matter what weapon you carry.

Fred
12-19-2005, 11:17 PM
Only about that mathews way would you shoot that boat ancher-----:smile: :smile: :smile: lol

Boat anchor? BOAT anchor?? Actually when I was trying to find my own compound(my sis wanted her Hoyt-Mate back) the only thing I could find in my draw length at a price I could afford was this old Feathermax. It and I get along fairly well,but we shall see when I go back up to Penticton this spring!! :mrgreen: Fred

greybark
12-20-2005, 01:48 PM
:wink: Hey Walksalot , Here are three studies done on wounding rates. Two of which are rather old but still give a definate number trend.
# Michigan - Recovery Rates - 1983
Deer hit at 0-10 yds had highest recovery rate
Deer hit at 10-20yds Had lower recovery rate
Deer hit at 20-30yds had still lower recovery rates
Deer hit at + 30 yds had 0 recovery rate
I realize this is one of the first archery studies done and is primative and basicly points out only shot and distance ratios.
#Missouri (sp) - Harvest Ratios - 1989
Deer Harvest Success Rate
Compound Unlimited----- 20.5%
Compound Fingers ----- 18.1%
Traditional ------------- 16%
Deer Wounding Per Cent
Compound Unlimited ---- 17.3%
Compound Fingers ------ 12%
Traditional -------------- 9.9%
OK , On to a more up to date report that took to years to compleat. This report was done in 1994 by Roy Marlow and the Lonestar Bowhunters of Texas involved 6000 questionairs and 4000 returns .

#BOW TYPE ------------MIM VALUE (yds) MAX VALUE (yds) AVERAGE VAL --
---------------------------------SHOT DISTANCE -(yds)
COMPOUND -----------------5--------------- 50-------------- 19.6
RECURVE -------------------10-------------- 25 --------------16.5
LONGBOW -------------------7--------------- 20------------- 12.2
-------------------------------RECOVERY DISTANCES (yds)
COMPOUND -----------------0---------------999--------------96
RECURVE -------------------0---------------300--------------75
LONGBOW ------------------0----------------70-------------- 58
---------------------------------RECOVERY TIMES (hrs)
COMPOUND -----------------0----------------16-------------- .7
RECURVE -------------------0-----------------2---------------.3
LONGBOW ------------------0-----------------1.1------------- .5

There is an excellant wounding study called The Camp Ridley Report which is more recent and should be read by all bowhunters .
I am now tired of all this and going to have a nap !!!!

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Jetboater
12-20-2005, 03:03 PM
No Offence, Greybark, but I can make any study look beneficial to any user group . stats and charts are great but the sad reality is that being profficient with traditional bow takes more practice and dedication than any other bow.
anyone wants to try this , go into your back yard and shoot one arrow a day at a 3-d target at a different yardage and see how accurate you really are, I think most people would be rather embarrassed.
Sad reality is on a tradional bows you are shooting off of assumption, you are assuming your arrow drop on an assumed distance,
Nontheless everyone should be working together to ensure that we have hunting rights in the future.
I have a 40 yard indoor heated range that I shoot at every day. everyday in 100 arrows or so , I make a poor shot or two.it happens even when we strive to make the perfect shot.

greybark
12-20-2005, 05:09 PM
:) OK Blacktail , Come up with one !!!!!

Mooseman
12-20-2005, 05:25 PM
No Offence, Greybark, but I can make any study look beneficial to any user group . stats and charts are great but the sad reality is that being profficient with traditional bow takes more practice and dedication than any other bow.
anyone wants to try this , go into your back yard and shoot one arrow a day at a 3-d target at a different yardage and see how accurate you really are, I think most people would be rather embarrassed.
Sad reality is on a tradional bows you are shooting off of assumption, you are assuming your arrow drop on an assumed distance,
Nontheless everyone should be working together to ensure that we have hunting rights in the future.
I have a 40 yard indoor heated range that I shoot at every day. everyday in 100 arrows or so , I make a poor shot or two.it happens even when we strive to make the perfect shot.

After 19 seasons of guiding traditional, compound and rifle hunters I have my own statistic. The person shooting is a "MUCH" higher wounding factor then weapon choice.
If you can hit a loonie at 100 yards with your bow 150 times a day, that does not mean that when taking a bad shot at an animal you could not wound as well!

3D shoots are for fun and practice but are not real hunting shots for traditional bowhunters for the most part. Even for compound they are often not ethical shots when the kill zone has an obstacle in front or the animal is quartering to the shooter.

Compounds are way more accurate on average then traditional bows but rifles are more accurate yet!

houndogger
12-20-2005, 06:12 PM
I think all this talk about this is due to some serious cabin fever. Why don't ya'll get out and hunt some wolfs or something.:wink:

Walksalot
12-20-2005, 07:19 PM
:wink: Hey Walksalot , Here are three studies done on wounding rates. Two of which are rather old but still give a definate number trend.
# Michigan - Recovery Rates - 1983
Deer hit at 0-10 yds had highest recovery rate
Deer hit at 10-20yds Had lower recovery rate
Deer hit at 20-30yds had still lower recovery rates
Deer hit at + 30 yds had 0 recovery rate
I realize this is one of the first archery studies done and is primative and basicly points out only shot and distance ratios.
#Missouri (sp) - Harvest Ratios - 1989
Deer Harvest Success Rate
Compound Unlimited----- 20.5%
Compound Fingers ----- 18.1%
Traditional ------------- 16%
Deer Wounding Per Cent
Compound Unlimited ---- 17.3%
Compound Fingers ------ 12%
Traditional -------------- 9.9%
OK , On to a more up to date report that took to years to compleat. This report was done in 1994 by Roy Marlow and the Lonestar Bowhunters of Texas involved 6000 questionairs and 4000 returns .

#BOW TYPE ------------MIM VALUE (yds) MAX VALUE (yds) AVERAGE VAL --
---------------------------------SHOT DISTANCE -(yds)
COMPOUND -----------------5--------------- 50-------------- 19.6
RECURVE -------------------10-------------- 25 --------------16.5
LONGBOW -------------------7--------------- 20------------- 12.2
-------------------------------RECOVERY DISTANCES (yds)
COMPOUND -----------------0---------------999--------------96
RECURVE -------------------0---------------300--------------75
LONGBOW ------------------0----------------70-------------- 58
---------------------------------RECOVERY TIMES (hrs)
COMPOUND -----------------0----------------16-------------- .7
RECURVE -------------------0-----------------2---------------.3
LONGBOW ------------------0-----------------1.1------------- .5

There is an excellant wounding study called The Camp Ridley Report which is more recent and should be read by all bowhunters .
I am now tired of all this and going to have a nap !!!!

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Greybark, I am truely flattered and God bless your heart and liver because you must have spent some time on the computer to accumulate this information:) I am sure your eyeballs must feel like they are bugging out of your head.:smile:

With all due respect the fact remains that reports can have a predetermined outcome before the study ever takes place.

When I am asked a questioned by a person interested in bowhunting and which tackle to use the first question I ask them is "how much time do you have to practice"?

greybark
12-20-2005, 09:14 PM
:) Hey Walksalot , A good and gracious post , Take note Blacktail:grin:
I will certainly try to make it up to one of your 3-d shoots Walksalot , We should be well matched you with your bum leg and me with a bum ticker LOL . Merry Christmas Walksalot.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingeertab On --

Fred
12-20-2005, 09:46 PM
Maybe we could lean on each other since I have pee poor knees!! :wink: Fred

Walksalot
12-21-2005, 02:41 AM
We will be a sight to see.:grin:
A Merry Christmas to you too Greybark.:grin:

Jetboater
12-21-2005, 10:03 AM
Greybark, Is that you Ken, You miserable bear.

greybark
12-21-2005, 11:40 AM
:grin: Hey Blacktail, You bet!!!!!! Take the sadness out of your posts (pun) and have a Merry Christmas !!!!

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

greybark
12-21-2005, 08:44 PM
:grin: Hey Blacktail , Is that you Roy ???? Missed seeing you at rock Ck the past frew years . Merry Christmas to you and your family. (even if you are not Roy)

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

ruger#1
12-21-2005, 09:04 PM
well grey you might of seen me in rockcreek, ive hunted there for over 25 years or more,Merry Christmas, and keep those arrows straight.