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Hemi
02-27-2009, 09:02 PM
I got my bow yesterday, Parker phoenix 32 nice pull smooth and fast. I went today and got my release TRU ball stinger. Doing a finger pull it is nice, after I put the release on it is too much draw. Now the person I got the bow off has a nock loop that is 2.5 inches from the string.. The draw on the bow is 29. My measurements by formula are 29.2 so draw I believe is fine. Should I just replace the nock loop and try again. If so what is the shortest I can get. I was looking at some today and they were 4" or 3.75" But I don't know how small that will make my loop. What do you guys think??

Ambush
02-27-2009, 09:14 PM
Your loop only has to be big enough to easily accomodate your release and nock. You can also shorten your release. I prefer to have the trigger touch just ahead of the second joint of my finger. Your anchor point makes a difference as well. Best bet is to get someone who knows to help you in person.

Lots of small variables can make up an inch.

Bow Walker
02-27-2009, 09:50 PM
Those loops are generally referred to as "D" loops. Probably because of the taut bowstring and the rounded loop forming the letter "D".

As is said above - the loop need only be deep enough so the you can get your release in there easily and not interfere with the nock of the arrow.

My hands are pretty large, so I take enough loop material to easily tie the loop - but before I tighten up the finished loop I'll make it so that it lays flat to the string. I looks like it's way too short - then I insert the nose of a pair of needle-nose pliers in between the "D" part of the loop and the string, and force the pliers apart, thus tighteniong the loop knots.

This is what it looks like when finished....
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/D-loop4.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=5210&perpage=18&ppuser=529)


Here is a collage that shows the steps in tying a D-loop. Obviously it is with a much too-heavy rope and is a huge loop - but it does demonstrate the steps involved. You can see the pliers as well.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/d-loopcolage1.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=5209&perpage=18&ppuser=529)

Hemi
02-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Is it better to buy just the string and make your own or buy the premade ones. whats the differance in cost??

Bow Walker
02-27-2009, 10:52 PM
get a couple of feet of small stiff D-loop 'rope'. you won't be sorry. way cheaper to tie your own. nothing like customizing your setup.

Ron.C
02-28-2009, 07:53 AM
I got my bow yesterday, Parker phoenix 32 nice pull smooth and fast. I went today and got my release TRU ball stinger. Doing a finger pull it is nice, after I put the release on it is too much draw. ??

Regardless of how long the loop is, installing one will in most cases make you feel like the draw length on your bow has increased and is now a tad to long. Like Ambush said, your loop only has to be big enough to accomdate your release. And keep in mind, it will stretch out, a bit, over time.
You may want to shorten your release if you can do that with your particular release in part to compensate a bit or you can adjust and shorten the draw length on the bow a bit.
In the end, the key thing is to make sure your draw length is not too long. You'll have an extremely hard time ever shooting to your potential with a bow that doesn't fit you properly.

Like Bow Walker said, buy a length of loop rope, and make your own. Once you get it the length you like, make a spare and attach it to your bow somwhere. The always seem break at the worst time!

Bowzone_Mikey
02-28-2009, 01:33 PM
I make mine as short as possible ... I have a set of D-loop pliers that I put over 100 pounds of tension on the setting of the loop ... it will never stretch after I set it

Gimme a call sometime and we will go over you new Bow ... you say your 5 mins away ... I have a 40 yard shot in my driveway (50 if I set my target bag up at back of shop ) ... I have thursdays and fridays off

Hemi
02-28-2009, 07:11 PM
I make mine as short as possible ... I have a set of D-loop pliers that I put over 100 pounds of tension on the setting of the loop ... it will never stretch after I set it

Gimme a call sometime and we will go over you new Bow ... you say your 5 mins away ... I have a 40 yard shot in my driveway (50 if I set my target bag up at back of shop ) ... I have thursdays and fridays off..

I picked up what I needed today and tied in a new loop, pretty easy..Hey Mikey I will forsure come over and let you check out the bow. I was practicing alittle today. My target I amde is alittle weak. I had an old 4" foamy and cut it into 4 and tied it together. I was shooting almost all the way through. I then added a piece folded up cardboard boxin between. They now only go through on some shots. My fletching was taking a beating so I stopped. I did manage to site it in a bit better. I am at 20 yards about 2" off bulls eye and my groups are with 2".. Still needs alittle tweaking.. Draw lenght feels good now.. Hey Mikey I am off on Friday And I think it is a Pro D day so my daughter can watch the kids. If you wanted to shoot. I live over in meadow park across from uncle johns nursery..I will PM you my number

PGK
02-28-2009, 08:02 PM
The LOOP is 2.5'' long!?? :| That's ridiculous. Shorten the sucker up. Should be just long enough to accomodate the release, keeping in mind they all will stretch a bit over time.

Hemi
02-28-2009, 09:02 PM
The LOOP is 2.5'' long!?? :| That's ridiculous. Shorten the sucker up. Should be just long enough to accomodate the release, keeping in mind they all will stretch a bit over time.


Already done, shortened up today

Bow Walker
03-01-2009, 06:27 PM
Hemi....good luck over at BZM's.......don't forget your shovel. :wink:

Riverjet
03-08-2009, 02:05 AM
Hemi....good luck over at BZM's.......don't forget your shovel. :wink:

Mike are you a farmer?

Bow Walker
03-08-2009, 05:34 PM
Mike are you a farmer?
I don't think he is - but it's been rumored to have been piled 'steep-n-deep' on occasion.....:eek: :wink: :lol:




























...just tuggin' on yer gam, Mike.8-)

Jagermeister
03-08-2009, 07:18 PM
I'm old school, but willing to try anything once. Progressed from long bow to recurve to compound.
Tried most of the gadgets. Liked and accepted the mechanical trigger release, carbon arrows (for their trueness for being straight), plastic fletching, fall-away rest. You know the drill, archery is a game of gadgetry.
Tried the d-loop a few years ago. It seemed ok although I found that it shortened the draw length too much for my liking, but the one thing that pissed me off the most were the times that it failed (came un-done) at critical moments. I think the one that pissed me off the most was the time that I can near to cold-cocking myself when the damm thing came un-done unexpectedly just as I was coming to full draw. That caught my flush on the kisser, sank me to my knees and I saw them there stars. Came close to knocking my upper front two teeth out, certainly loosened them to the point where I had to have one splinted one to the adjacent tooth for support. That ended my d-loop days. One less thing to put a wrench into a good day was the way I saw it.
Did I mention that bristly thingy-bob, don't get me started on that?

jessbennett
03-09-2009, 10:06 AM
I'm old school, but willing to try anything once. Progressed from long bow to recurve to compound.
Tried most of the gadgets. Liked and accepted the mechanical trigger release, carbon arrows (for their trueness for being straight), plastic fletching, fall-away rest. You know the drill, archery is a game of gadgetry.
Tried the d-loop a few years ago. It seemed ok although I found that it shortened the draw length too much for my liking, but the one thing that pissed me off the most were the times that it failed (came un-done) at critical moments. I think the one that pissed me off the most was the time that I can near to cold-cocking myself when the damm thing came un-done unexpectedly just as I was coming to full draw. That caught my flush on the kisser, sank me to my knees and I saw them there stars. Came close to knocking my upper front two teeth out, certainly loosened them to the point where I had to have one splinted one to the adjacent tooth for support. That ended my d-loop days. One less thing to put a wrench into a good day was the way I saw it.
Did I mention that bristly thingy-bob, don't get me started on that?
the d loop shortened your draw length?

Bow Walker
03-09-2009, 10:19 AM
I'm old school, but willing to try anything once. Progressed from long bow to recurve to compound.
Tried most of the gadgets. Liked and accepted the mechanical trigger release, carbon arrows (for their trueness for being straight), plastic fletching, fall-away rest. You know the drill, archery is a game of gadgetry.
Tried the d-loop a few years ago. It seemed ok although I found that it shortened the draw length too much for my liking, but the one thing that pissed me off the most were the times that it failed (came un-done) at critical moments. I think the one that pissed me off the most was the time that I can near to cold-cocking myself when the damm thing came un-done unexpectedly just as I was coming to full draw. That caught my flush on the kisser, sank me to my knees and I saw them there stars. Came close to knocking my upper front two teeth out, certainly loosened them to the point where I had to have one splinted one to the adjacent tooth for support. That ended my d-loop days. One less thing to put a wrench into a good day was the way I saw it.
Did I mention that bristly thingy-bob, don't get me started on that?
:confused: I think that whomever installed your D-loop (at the time) did a pee-poor job of it. Even when I was trying to teach myself that simple knot (way back when), they never came undone. When tied right, with the melted ends that form a perfect stop from coming undone, the D-loop will last. A very long time.

It also sounds as if the loop was too long - as mentioned, they should be just long enough to get your release in there easily and to clear the nock of the arrow. Go back and check the tying pictures. Don't forget to burn the ends.

Jagermeister
03-09-2009, 04:00 PM
"the d loop shortened your draw length?" Yeah, it did shorten the length of draw. By adding the d-loop, I was not able to get the bow to get to the "sweet spot in the valley" after coming past peak draw. Adding the d-loop decreases the length of pull on the bow by the virtual length of the loop.
I have a question about one of the photos, the one that shows the grey thread inside the d-loop knots. What is the purpose of these threads? If they are nocking points, are they not needed when you're using the d-loop? I've never seen that setup used with the d-loop.

Jagermeister
03-09-2009, 04:24 PM
Ok, I just got enlightened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Ij5aW8l6o&feature=related
and then I watched this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKLkt8lMOoI&feature=related
maybe I'll try it again.
In the first video, he cinches in the upper and lower nocking points (similar to the the question I asked about the "grey thread") before he cinches in the d-loop and in the second video he explains why. The camo d-loop setup was the way I had mine setup.
Got the answer to my own question, ahhh, the power of the internet.

Bowzone_Mikey
03-09-2009, 05:24 PM
Mike are you a farmer?

Ya I Have a 1/3 of an acre of 4' deep snow crop


I set my d-loop by a set of D-loop pliers .. essentially a set of modified retaining ring separators .. in fact here they are
http://worldsbeststrings.com/graphics/gp1.jpg...

I pull the loop a little ... cook the ends of the line then Cinch hard ... I find I get over 100 pounds of cinch power using these

I do it pretty much the same way as this guy
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2185934

Edward Teach
03-15-2009, 08:48 AM
Burn the ends on the D-loop string too! That little hard melted mushroomed bit that forms will help keep the knot from undoing until it tightens.

Bowzone_Mikey
03-15-2009, 10:04 PM
Burn the ends on the D-loop string too! That little hard melted mushroomed bit that forms will help keep the knot from undoing until it tightens.

Dont burn them ... melt them ... when you set them on fire they become brittle and you very much likely to punch yerself in the teeth

Edward Teach
03-16-2009, 06:55 PM
Semantics! Semantics!

Bowzone_Mikey
03-16-2009, 07:22 PM
Semantics! Semantics!

when you haft no teef you wuddent zay thaf ;)