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branthunter
02-14-2009, 01:40 PM
There have been recent threads on chokes, shotguns, and shells and in each the posters often relate the subject under discussion to accuracy and/or killing power. None of these three things are, in my view, the primary factor in the ratio of shots fired to birds down. Shooting is a hand/eye coordination sport and we need to look at the factors affecting that performance to understand why some shoot better than others and why our own accuracy varies from day to day and season to season. Only then can we improve or help others improve. Ian F. in one of those threads mentioned recoil as a factor affecting accuracy and I assume he was referring to involuntary flinching so that could tie the kind of gun directly to accuracy of aim.
In my case the single biggest reason I miss is gun alignment ( followed closely, with brant and Canadas, and sometimes ducks, by sitting up too soon). This holds true now ( I probably average 1.5 to 2 shots per bird down on ducks, better on snows) to back when I rarely hit anything (a box and a half for 4 ducks was a good day). If when you bring the gun to shoulder you don't automatically, every time, have the gun tucked under your cheek so that the bead sits on the back of the barrel you will almost surely miss. I now surprisingly frequently hit shots where I know the gun wasn't in the right alignment, but it's taken the upstairs computer 40 years to get to that stage. A lot of things affect achieving this alignment---eg. thickness of clothing worn, body position relative to where the bird is coming from, how far to the right or left you have to swing to get on and past the bird, fit of the gun to you, whether you start sitting or standing, etc. (there are , I am sure, lots of others). For instance when hunting brant with the extra Helly on over my marsh hunt jacket I have to make sure I throw the gun out further before I bring it to my shoulder or it will hang up and be too low in my shoulder to get the correct sight plane and I will be "seeing barrel". I still regularly practice bringing the gun to shoulder at home so that it ends up pointed at a chosen spot on the wall or ceiling with the sight plane bead-on-barrel (if you can see any part of the barrel you’re out of whack).

Another factor to be aware of when learning to shoot birds is, when you go out to hunt make sure you don't have all your focus on the bird when you sit up to shoot. I finally started to hit birds (with a friend's help) by repeating to myself "Gun first...gun first...gun first" as the birds were incoming so that when I sat up to shoot, before I looked at the bird , I checked the barrel/bead alignment. If good then swing on the bird, if not, fix it then go to the bird. After doing this enough it will come naturally and you can dispense with the "gun first" prayer, but when my shooting goes off it's what I always go back to first.

Another big cause, I think, of missing decoying birds is sitting up way too soon . I do this a lot on Canada geese (but often on the other birds too) and it means I end up with too long a shot by the time I get on the bird and past him and pull the trigger. Canadas are so big and look so close as they are setting into the decoys that I think I feel like I'm cheating if I let them come right in.

Another easy way to set yourself up to miss is to position yourself too far from your decoys. If you are 35 yds. away then, by the time you sit up, get on and past the bird, and pull the trigger you could well be trying a 50+yd. shot, and believe me, that is a much tougher shot for a learner to make than a 25 yd. shot. This factor is especially important when the wind's blowing hard because the birds can flare away with the wind (often in a curving flight line that will also throw off your lead) and gain a lot of ground on you before you shoot. Perfect your hide and set up close.

These are just a few ideas meant to help out those who are new to the game and struggling with "missing". Even when you get the above concepts under control there is still a lot of practice needed ( on real birds, in real hunt situations----while clays have their place in the whole process I believe one can only become a good bird shooter by shooting at lots of birds) before your brain will build in the correct lead for distance, wind, angle of the bird's flight, etc.

What other advice can we come up with here to improve accuracy?

JRG94
02-14-2009, 02:03 PM
just throwing this out there,but u could try to keep both eyes open while shooting so that you have a good veiw of what u are shooting at and the bead of the barrel

kastles
02-14-2009, 02:18 PM
Well it has been proved that alchohol impedes our hand-eye co-ordination. But I'd improve my shot your way.

kastles

fowl language
02-14-2009, 07:52 PM
good article bob,if i may add to it,lifting you gun is an unnatural act so throwing out your gun and bringing it back to your shoulder as bob said is the best way to mount your gun but you need to practise this alot to strenghten your back and shoulder muscles as they dont get used much other than this.....sako, some people such as myself have a dominate eye that is opposite so your shooting side so i have to close my off side.ie.im left handed but my right eye is dominant,so i have to close my right eye.another real bad habit i find with new shooters is they tend to lift there had off the stock,remember keep your head glued to that stock.....fowl

Marc
02-14-2009, 08:21 PM
To help with judging the range of the birds I put the furthest decoy 15-20 yards out. If the birds are within the decoys you know you're good to go even if they're skirting the outer edge.

I learned a lesson this fall as well. I had a sling on the shotgun and several times in the layout boat the sling got caught on the bead and messed up my shot. Sling is now in the closet.

Pattern your gun for different shot size, what choke patterns with one size may not be the best alternative for another shot size.

Try and keep your shots within 40 yards, if you've tagged one and it's still flying tag him again until your gun is out of shells or it hits the ground!

Maybe we should try and maybe get a skeet day put together for the members on the off season.

Crazy_Farmer
02-14-2009, 08:31 PM
Maybe we should try and maybe get a skeet day put together for the members on the off season.


Real men dont shoot clays or skeet in the off season. They kill crows, pigeons and starlings. :eek: :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Sounds like something the "team berretta" guys need to do, all those nice light loads, wouldnt want to get their shoulders sore now would we.

Funniest thing ever was at a shoot once two members were shooting infront of us, they had their fancy berrettas, one didnt have the "kick off" system, well he fired the gun, and said,"jeez that really kicks alot harder".......Are you serious, you're shooting 7/8oz loads of 7.5 or #8s come on man, he had it look like it hurt him!

Should also put this out there, you know what the X stands for in SuperX2 or SX3?? Thats right it stands for Super Xtrema2, way better then just a normal xtrema2, its SUPER!! :tongue:

shotgunjohn
02-15-2009, 09:08 AM
I have to agree with Brant hunter that not mounting the gun properly causes the most misses. The U.S. olympic shotgunning coach also says this is the case. I've got to the point where the first thing I do in the blind is to practice mounting the gun a few times to make sure I can do so smoothly. My wife bought me a new duck hunting coat for Christmas and my shooting went for a loop the first couple of times I wore it. Its just a little tight in the shoulder and I wasn't mounting the gun cleanly. Part of that involves getting your cheek down on the stock but I too think it is possible to hit stuff anyway. The olympic coach above has people tape a flaslight with a narrow beam to their gun then practice mounting the gun while watching the beam of light as they swing following the edge of where a wall meets the ceiling. She (yes it's a woman) says not to look at the gun at all.
For practical field shooting I would disagree with one point and that is if a flock of geese is passing over and not setting in to decoys I think most people wait to long to shoot. They end up shooting straight up or bending over backwards which is not only difficult but can be dangerous as well. Ducks are different because they will flair up at the first shot.
Skeet to me has little use in field shooting as you already know where the "bird" is going and this is never the case in the field. You also already have the gun mounted so it doesn't even give you practice in that.

Marc
02-15-2009, 06:00 PM
Talking about instinctive shooting. I've caught myself a few time shooting ducks and not remembering looking down the barrel. I had two mallards jump one time just at day brake and I could see them in the reflection of the water from the moon but soon as the ducks cleared the reflection of the water water I couldn't see them anymore just as they made the transition I pulled the trigger and one duck came down out of the black and into the water. I'm guessing the one I was leading. :mrgreen: Another time this fall I was hunting from the boat and a duck was going around to my left and to far to twist to shoot the shotgun so I leaned back and pulled the trigger when it felt right and the bird came down, pretty much shooting sideways.

Like anything else the more you do something the better you get at it. I'm thinking of taking my layout blind and doing some skeet shooting out of it this summer as I do a lot of this style of shooting from my duck boat and I just picked up a layout blind around Christmas so it would be good practice to break the doors open, and get on aim, and shoot.

branthunter
02-15-2009, 08:27 PM
Talking about instinctive shooting. I've caught myself a few time shooting ducks and not remembering looking down the barrel. I had two mallards jump one time just at day brake and I could see them in the reflection of the water from the moon but soon as the ducks cleared the reflection of the water water I couldn't see them anymore just as they made the transition I pulled the trigger and one duck came down out of the black and into the water. I'm guessing the one I was leading. :mrgreen: Another time this fall I was hunting from the boat and a duck was going around to my left and to far to twist to shoot the shotgun so I leaned back and pulled the trigger when it felt right and the bird came down, pretty much shooting sideways.

Like anything else the more you do something the better you get at it. I'm thinking of taking my layout blind and doing some skeet shooting out of it this summer as I do a lot of this style of shooting from my duck boat and I just picked up a layout blind around Christmas so it would be good practice to break the doors open, and get on aim, and shoot.
What is a layout blind Marc? I assume it's something different from your layout punt.

Marc
02-15-2009, 08:35 PM
What is a layout blind Marc? I assume it's something different from your layout punt.

It's one of those blinds they use in fields for shooting geese.Your in a recliner and it has two doors that you push open to shoot. It has bungees on it to attach vegetation and blend in with the surroundings.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Pod/04/90/83/p049083sq02.jpg

Crazy_Farmer
02-15-2009, 08:40 PM
And when you blend in right, the geese wont even know you're there.:biggrin:

Theres two blinds grassed up in both pictures.

http://members.shaw.ca/stevensml/hunting/nov%2015th.jpg


http://members.shaw.ca/stevensml/hunting/dec%2022th_800x600.jpg

PGK
02-15-2009, 10:45 PM
I don't know why I miss, mostly. I've missed a few shots that I could swear there was a blank in the gun.

I find I have some of the same problems I had when I used to shoot archery, believe it or not. I've always been an instinctive shot, whether it be guns or bows.Gun up, BOOM! Even shooting compound, I was always fastest off the line, and often had the best groups.

I think when I'm shotgunning that sometimes I shoot too quick, but I also struggle with the idea of 'lead'. I don't really lead, I just shoot, if that makes sense. If I find myself missing, I'll try to lead, and then I usually miss more. If I just point and shoot, I hit pretty good.

I didn't miss many ducks this fall. I think I shot over 80% on ducks, but I was getting them at pretty close range. With grouse, I use a 410, so it's more or less a crap shoot sometimes if you even get a lethal pellet on the bird at anything greater than 20 yards. With flying grouse inside 20 yards, I usually shoot about 40%. But then again, they're smaller and a hell of a lot harder to hit and I've got a lot less payload leaving the barrel.

I dunno! Thinking about shooting causes me the most misses! If it's FLUSH-SHOULDER-BOOM, it's usually bird down. And if I have time to watch em put their feet down , they're usually toast!

dutchie
02-15-2009, 11:35 PM
Well... I can tell you exactly why I miss.

I do not lead enough, and i forget to aim. DUH!!! I get "Drake fever" and my itchy trigger finger jumps on the trigger.

Simple enough but I have to say, skeet and trap have helped me out by calling the "pull" (with my gun down) and then getting the gun up to shooting position, and then shooting. Moving back further and further until I get to the 26 yard line from the machine.

And when you move around all the time in the 5 different positions you never get use to how the pigeon flys, so it is always testing me to lead properly.

I don't have permission from any landowners to shoot starlings or crows so Trap and Skeet is the best off season practice I will get other then when I go out shooting the ducks, On my friends feild that has a Bird Damage Permit!

dutchie

HuntNHookSports
02-16-2009, 08:59 AM
I probably average 1.5 to 2 shots per bird down on ducks


I think I shot over 80% on ducks

Wow those are pretty good averages. One guy says he consistently shoots a limit of ducks in 12 shots and another guy says it never takes him more than 10 shots. And never a cripple because he doesn't have a dog. I got to come visit you guys and get a lesson.:lol:

shotgunjohn
02-16-2009, 09:00 AM
The lady shooting coach says not to aim but to point a shotgun. Try the flashlight thing. The beam should focus on the line between the wall and ceiling through the whole mount and swing. This way when the gun is mounted you have already tracked the bird and as soon as the gun is tight against the shoulder you pull the trigger. Something about the human brain not being able to focus on the target and the barrel at the same time so her advice was to ignore the gun and focus only on the target then shoot as soon as the gun is mounted. Trying to figure lead with the gun up you're mind switches between the barrel and the target and you can't really focus on either. Probably the reason most of us shoot better when we don't have time to think about it.

branthunter
02-16-2009, 11:01 AM
The lady shooting coach says not to aim but to point a shotgun. Try the flashlight thing. The beam should focus on the line between the wall and ceiling through the whole mount and swing. This way when the gun is mounted you have already tracked the bird and as soon as the gun is tight against the shoulder you pull the trigger. Something about the human brain not being able to focus on the target and the barrel at the same time so her advice was to ignore the gun and focus only on the target then shoot as soon as the gun is mounted. Trying to figure lead with the gun up you're mind switches between the barrel and the target and you can't really focus on either. Probably the reason most of us shoot better when we don't have time to think about it.

This advice holds true only on the assumption that you always automatically mount the gun properly and is the way I, and I think most folks, shoot when I'm hitting . It is the reason behind my and other's recommendation to practice shouldering the gun at home and in the field. It's when I start missing a lot that I go back to the gun 1st mantra.

PGK
02-16-2009, 01:17 PM
^^^ Makes good sense!

shotgunjohn
02-18-2009, 08:52 AM
What she was claiming was the thing to practice to really improve your shooting is just mounting the gun properly. With enough practice it does become automatic. Anyway her advice not mine, just passing it on. I do manage to hit enough to keep my plucking thumbs in shape during the season but still surprise myself how well I shoot when I don't have time to think.

Qwa-honn
02-18-2009, 03:17 PM
the thing that buggers me up the most....... adrenaline. Plain and simple.

branthunter
02-18-2009, 03:24 PM
What she was claiming was the thing to practice to really improve your shooting is just mounting the gun properly. With enough practice it does become automatic. Anyway her advice not mine, just passing it on. I do manage to hit enough to keep my plucking thumbs in shape during the season but still surprise myself how well I shoot when I don't have time to think.

I agree with you and her and it was a useful addition to my original theme since, once you've got the gun mount thing mastered, focusing on and getting on the bird is the next important thing and indeed is the toughest thing to master because the excercise takes place in such variable conditions. It is those variable conditions (eg. wind speed, flight speed, angle of flight, whether the flare & wind combination creates a curved flight path, sun glare, other birds around the target, etc.) that take a lot of the kind of practice that you can't do at home like you can the gun mounting.

sneg
02-20-2009, 11:02 AM
I never look at shotgun and never look at gun sight. I just mount it ,point ,remove safety and shoot.Give some lead,off course. I have try to shoot at target in real darkness,spotligt on target only. This gives amazing feel of the gun. Also when mount and point gun automatically it free up my brain for other things'like observe the bird and surroundings. You may discover that bird will turn back or fly closer hence giving better chance for shot. If you feel that lead messing up your shot try to shoot at smaller angles- approaching or leaving bird.