papertest

[westhoyt]

Hi there, new to this forum.
I have a new hoyt superhawk, came with a whisker bicuit rest, haveing trouble with papertest , arrows will not fly straight no matter where I set rest, according to paper readings.
I am getting good groupings at 20 yards , than I tried a broad head and it shot 6 inches low , could not bring it in close to my field point grouping, my buddy is shooting same broadhead and is close to his fieldpoints,
Wasp sst hammer 100 grain broadhead.
I am happy with the bow but want fieldpoints and broadheads to group togeather, Thanks Jody

[Bow Walker]

Jody - there are many things that can affect the flight of your arrow as it leaves the bow. The most obvious one are (in no particular order)....
Fletching contact
Nocking point high/low
Unbalanced arrow (too much/little F.O.C.)
Center shot not tuned correctly
Incorrect spine on arrow (too weak/stiff)
...and the list goes on.

Fletching contact is easy to find. Use foot powder spray on the fletching, and see if there are any tell tale marks on the rest - adjust accordingly.

Low/high nock point will show up in the paper tears as the arrow passes thru - adjust accordingly.

F.O.C. is something that generally shows up at longer distances than those used for paper tuning - something like 20yds and beyond. Usually not too much of an issue. There is a program on Gold Tip's site ("Build Your Own Arrow") that you can plug your numbers into to check your F.O.C.

Center shot is a big item - and it is seldom addressed properly. Make sure that your string bisects your fiber optic pins, your nocked arrow, and is centered right down the middle of your arrow rest.

Hold your bow at arms length and have the string kind of hide the fiber optic ends of your pins (or split the pin 'lights' right down the middle. Then, without moving anything, look down to see where your arrow shaft is. Is it right inline with the string? Is the string cutting the arrow shaft right in half? If not - adjust the rest so that everything lines up.

Spine is also something that usually shows up after a few more yards of arrow flight - unless you are too much under-spined.

Hope this sheds some light on your problem(s) and you can begin to tune your bow.

[westhoyt]

Hi there , not really understanding the centershot idea ,how do I know if the site pins are in the proper place or the rest to start test?
I have a whisker bicuit rest so there is a lot of fletching contact to begin with.
I have wondered if my arrows are stiff enough, they are Radial Weave 200's,with 100 grain tips recommended b y the archery dude at Tyee in CR, I have a 27.5 inchdraw length and am shooting about 58 lbs
I cant really adjust knocking point without putting a new loop on so I have been moving rest up an down.
Everything seemed to be going well until I experimented with the broadhead and than I started screwing around trying to get bullet holes on the paper test, now I am confused, well enough whining ,have to work tomorrow than will try again Thurs. Jody

[Ddog]

lol..i know it can be frustrating as heck Jody, but also how far are you from your paper? doing a paper test you should be about 5feet from your paper. that way you can tell what your arrow is doing immediately after the release.

that will shed some light on the situation as to how to start tuning.
what bow walker is saying for your center shot is your arrow running straight and level from string to point. When you look at your string with the bow in hand and in shooting position looking down your string should look straight down the middle of your arrow like at the knock.obviously it is sitting in the whisker biscuit but are the flights running through the biscuit properly,(the same angle as your flights).

[Ron.C]

Here are a few links to bow tuning articles that may help. When I started doing this myself, I needed pictures to actually get it across "slow learner I guess:redface: "
But there's no better way to get it done than to learn how to do it yourself. Make one and only one small adjustment at a time, shoot, and examine and record the results, and be patient. You may find your adjustment made things worse, but that's how you learn how it all works. And really focus on your form while shooting. You want to be as consistent as possible from shot to shot to really make this all work well. Do yourself a favour and pick up a couple packages of crimp on nock points, and a bag of string loops. You'll may moving your nock point often and adjusting your loop, so better to have spares on hand becuase you will need them, and they're cheap. And just because your buddy shoots and broadhead/arrow combination well, doesn't mean you will. You may find you'll never get your broadheads to hit the same as your field points. I can get mine close, but I am still off by around an inch. This used to drive me nuts until I finally accepted the fact that my broadheads shot awesome groups, and I just needed to make a small sight adjustment for hunting. To be honest, as long as all my broadhead arrows group well, and all my field point arrows group well, I could care less if the don't group in the same spot.


http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/bow-tuning.php (http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/bow-tuning.php)

http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/tactics/tune_0112/ (http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/tactics/tune_0112/)

http://www.papertuning.com/ (http://www.papertuning.com/)

http://www.centenaryarchers.gil.com.au/images/Archery%20Equipment%20Record%20Form%20-%20Compound.pdf (http://www.centenaryarchers.gil.com.au/images/Archery%20Equipment%20Record%20Form%20-%20Compound.pdf)


.

[Bigbear]

No Matter What you do, you will Have Fletch Contact because your using a Whisker Biscuit. 2" Blazer vanes might help some. Whisker Biscuits are very hard to Paper tune. You have to have very good Proper shooting form, for a stable shot. I would suggest going to a Quad Ultra rest which is a Capture Dropaway rest, if your set on a Capture rest.

I use one and it works Very well. You can Use Helical Fletch if you wish, 3 " or 5" fletch, with no contact to influence your arrow leaving the bow,and best of all Its a Capture rest .:razz:

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I have never liked Paper tuning .... I will do it if someone asks me ... But I will Walkback tune before I paper tune everytime ...and walkback tuning will check your center shot better than any paper ever would based upon your point of impact

to walkback tune:
Start at 20 yards with your 20 pin shoot a group ... leave that group there
walk back to 30 , put you 20 pin on the first aiming point shoot a group and it should be directly below ....
do the same for 40 and 50 respectivly ...
I usually walkback to 80 to get a better idea (the further back you go the better you can tune

[Bow Walker]

westhoyt - have someone support your bow in a vertical position, with the bottom cam sitting on a chair or table top. Have an arrow nocked and sitting in your biscuit rest.

Now, you step back about three feet and line your string up so that it covers the pins in you sight - this is assuming that the pins are all in a perfectly vertical line. Now look down the string and see if the arrow shaft (from nock to tip) is "cut in half" by the string....if so, great. If not then move your rest left or right until the arrow shaft is bisected by the string.

This will give you a fairly accurate center shot for your rest/string/pin setup. This is a starting point. Now you can continue to tune using the Walk-back method described by Bowzone Mikey (he's a young pup, but he knows a thing or two).

I like to find a large target butt and run a piece of black tape right down the middle of it. This gives a visual reference point for shooting as you do your walk-back. In a perfect world all your shots would be right on the tape, in a straight line from top to bottom. (don't cheat with 4" wide tape...use electrical or hockey tape).

It's hard to get a visual from the written word, but I hope you can see what we are trying to get you to do here. Don't hesitate to post up any questions or concerns that you might have while you're tuning your baby.

[westhoyt]

Ok in the morning I am going to try a little more, thanks for all the tips, and I will see what happens . Jody

[jessbennett]

westhoyt - have someone support your bow in a vertical position, with the bottom cam sitting on a chair or table top. Have an arrow nocked and sitting in your biscuit rest.

Now, you step back about three feet and line your string up so that it covers the pins in you sight - this is assuming that the pins are all in a perfectly vertical line. Now look down the string and see if the arrow shaft (from nock to tip) is "cut in half" by the string....if so, great. If not then move your rest left or right until the arrow shaft is bisected by the string.

This will give you a fairly accurate center shot for your rest/string/pin setup. This is a starting point. Now you can continue to tune using the Walk-back method described by Bowzone Mikey (he's a young pup, but he knows a thing or two).

I like to find a large target butt and run a piece of black tape right down the middle of it. This gives a visual reference point for shooting as you do your walk-back. In a perfect world all your shots would be right on the tape, in a straight line from top to bottom. (don't cheat with 4" wide tape...use electrical or hockey tape).

It's hard to get a visual from the written word, but I hope you can see what we are trying to get you to do here. Don't hesitate to post up any questions or concerns that you might have while you're tuning your baby.


bowwalker,

that will only work provided that he does not torque his grip at all when he shoots.

sure it may look good when the bow is not drawn, but when drawn he may torque left or right.

[jessbennett]

Hi there , not really understanding the centershot idea ,how do I know if the site pins are in the proper place or the rest to start test?
I have a whisker bicuit rest so there is a lot of fletching contact to begin with.
I have wondered if my arrows are stiff enough, they are Radial Weave 200's,with 100 grain tips recommended b y the archery dude at Tyee in CR, I have a 27.5 inchdraw length and am shooting about 58 lbs
I cant really adjust knocking point without putting a new loop on so I have been moving rest up an down.
Everything seemed to be going well until I experimented with the broadhead and than I started screwing around trying to get bullet holes on the paper test, now I am confused, well enough whining ,have to work tomorrow than will try again Thurs. Jody


westhoyt.

when u have an arrow nocked and in the rest, hold the bow out in front of you looking at the side profile of your bow. does the arrow run level at the same height as the mounting hole for your rest? does the arrow look level?
typically your arrow should run level with the mounting hole for your rest as usually that is the center point of your bow.

if the arrow is above or below this hole, make your adjustments. chances are, you will have to adjust your nocking point accordingly. but all things considered, start here.
good luck..

[Bow Walker]

bowwalker,

that will only work provided that he does not torque his grip at all when he shoots.

sure it may look good when the bow is not drawn, but when drawn he may torque left or right.
You're right Jesse, but it's a starting point for further tuning. If all is "inline" with the string then that, at least, eliminates several variables and he can proceed to thw walk-back shooting/tuning.

[westhoyt]

Hey thanks for all the input everyone,
Well I adjusted my rest so that arrow was centered ,than went to range and shot really good out to 40yards.
Icame home set up target at 20yards and tried that fixed broadhead and still shot about 3-4 inces low, I remembered my son was shooting mechanicals, so I borrowed one with practice blades and you wouldnt believe it , fieldpoints and broadhead hit bullseye in a 2inch group.
Tried paper test and still had a knock high reading at 6 feet, went out to 10 yards and shot a perfect bullet hole. I think arows are leaving the bow a little wonky but if they straighten out does it matter?
I wanted to stay with fixed broadheads but why when these mechanicals shot great. I realize it was only 20 yards .
Anyway there is lots of time to practice and experiment, I f my arrows are torqueing out should I switch to stiffer. Or change draw weight a little?
Hey thanks for all the help, lots of questions. Jody
Oh I checked arrow and rest hole and it looked great,

[westhoyt]

I will try the walkback method tocheck my side to side tuneing. i kind of hate to move this rest now that I seem to be shooting better. Jody

[jessbennett]

Hey thanks for all the input everyone,
Well I adjusted my rest so that arrow was centered ,than went to range and shot really good out to 40yards.
Icame home set up target at 20yards and tried that fixed broadhead and still shot about 3-4 inces low, I remembered my son was shooting mechanicals, so I borrowed one with practice blades and you wouldnt believe it , fieldpoints and broadhead hit bullseye in a 2inch group.
Tried paper test and still had a knock high reading at 6 feet, went out to 10 yards and shot a perfect bullet hole. I think arows are leaving the bow a little wonky but if they straighten out does it matter?
I wanted to stay with fixed broadheads but why when these mechanicals shot great. I realize it was only 20 yards .
Anyway there is lots of time to practice and experiment, I f my arrows are torqueing out should I switch to stiffer. Or change draw weight a little?
Hey thanks for all the help, lots of questions. Jody
Oh I checked arrow and rest hole and it looked great,


another thing to remember, when shooting through the paper, 6 feet might be a bit close to begin with. look up a slow motion video of an arrow being shot through a bow. u will be amazed at how much the arrow flexes as it is shot. 10 yds in my opinion is alot more reasonable for paper tuning. it will give the arrow a chance to stabilize after it is shot.

if you are shooting bullet holes at 10 yds, id leave it. come hunting season and after alot of shooting your broadheads are still hitting low, adjust your sights accordingly. after all, if you are getting consistent accuracy and your arrows are flying good with broadheads on, that is the important thing. It is not uncommon to have to adjust your sights when shooting fixed heads.

[westhoyt]

Well for now I am thinking of going with Mechanicals because they flew so good, hate the idea of purchasing expensive fixed blades and haveing to screw around to make them work.
Would love to go to some archery shop where we could experiment with different heads and arrows.
This site is great thanks Jody

[Bowzone_Mikey]

Jody .. when it comes to paper tuning you have to askyourself one question ...
Are the arrows hitting where I want them to?

I personally cant think of any top shooter I know that has perfect bullet holes at 5 yrds ... usually a little tail high or tail left at 10 yrds if you got perfect then I would say that you are golden

the reasoning why you fixed blades are hitting low I suspect ... might be others but the most common and IMO most overlooked that angle of blades and angle of fletching are not the same therfore fighting one another thus slowing your arrow dow a bit and lowering your point of impact ...as well as anything sticking away from the shaft will create Drag.... its not so much a physics or balistics thing as much as its an Aerodynamics thing ... where the mechs dont have the "fins or wings" so you have little to no drag effects on the front of your arrow .. just the rear from the fletching

[jessbennett]

Jody .. when it comes to paper tuning you have to askyourself one question ...
Are the arrows hitting where I want them to?

I personally cant think of any top shooter I know that has perfect bullet holes at 5 yrds ... usually a little tail high or tail left at 10 yrds if you got perfect then I would say that you are golden

the reasoning why you fixed blades are hitting low I suspect ... might be others but the most common and IMO most overlooked that angle of blades and angle of fletching are not the same therfore fighting one another thus slowing your arrow dow a bit and lowering your point of impact ...as well as anything sticking away from the shaft will create Drag.... its not so much a physics or balistics thing as much as its an Aerodynamics thing ... where the mechs dont have the "fins or wings" so you have little to no drag effects on the front of your arrow .. just the rear from the fletching


what he said....... :razz:

[Bow Walker]

Well Jody, there are litterally thousands (if not more) shooters/hunters who swear by mechanical heads.:!:

If your point of impact (using mecahnical heads) is the same as your field points, IMHO - as BZM says:cool: - "you're golden", don't change a thing and go out there (in season) and kill something edible.;-)

[westhoyt]

Tried the walk back test to 30 yards and had pretty good results, not sure if the deviation I had was the bow or poor form on my part, my enthusiasum is back up due mostly to all the help I got from you guys. Thanks the input was very help ful, Jody

[Bowzone_Mikey]

Always glad to help Jody ...

Mikey

[Bow Walker]

I'm just glad that what I was preachin is within the educational ballpark. Eh, Mike?

Go Get 'em Jody!