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870
12-22-2008, 08:24 PM
he so I was out in the marsh today and herd someone using an electric snow goose call. it seemed to be working well, as the nailed a few. I did not know those are aloud. are they? where in the regs does it talk about using electirc calls? and do they work well? where can you get one?

870

f350ps
12-22-2008, 08:46 PM
Illegal, but so is shooting Swans. So guys just don't get it!! K

Qwa-honn
12-22-2008, 11:50 PM
Yeah Illegal. Effective. But still Illegal.

Jimbo
12-23-2008, 12:22 AM
How does an electric call sound compared to 2 or 3 hunters with conventional calls ??

870
12-23-2008, 12:57 AM
the thing almost sounded like an air raid siren. there is no way it was man made. should I of called the co?

fowl language
12-23-2008, 07:20 AM
we have pasted a resolution at the region 2 level of the bcwf for the use of electronic calls for snow geese,hopefully it will pass at the annual convention and talks have already taken place with the right biologists in this manner.heres hopeing.but as of now we need to pass this along to the area co,s.......fowl

sawmill
12-23-2008, 07:41 AM
What do electric geese taste like?

870
12-23-2008, 08:28 AM
What do electric geese taste like?

the taste is actualy quite shocking!

porcupine
12-23-2008, 10:36 AM
I thought they tasted revolting
________
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sawmill
12-23-2008, 12:23 PM
:biggrin:I gave you guys that one.Merry Christmas..Joe

308BAR
12-23-2008, 04:01 PM
the taste is actualy quite shocking!


I thought they tasted revolting

My understanding is that they're more Wattery.

f350ps
12-23-2008, 10:10 PM
Can't figure out why we would need E-Callers anyways? No offence D but I hope the resolution fails. JMHO K

fowl language
12-23-2008, 11:14 PM
well k.i would suggest that you dont use a robo duck or other such motion attractants,because its basically the same thing .hell you could consider your new deeks the same thing for that matter.we need to at least maintain the flock and with the exeption of this cold snap in the marsh this seasons adult kill will be a minimum compared to what we have seen in the last few years.if we cant knock down the numbers some,disease will do it for us.e calls will do the same as the robo duck,it makes a med. hunter into a good hunter and a good hunter finished quicker to make room for some one else to shoot some more.....no offence taken ...fowl

f350ps
12-24-2008, 04:17 PM
I knew you'd come back with the Mojo comparison. Yes, i use a Mojo but that don't make it right either. I would be all for a total ban on them but until then I'll continue to use them. I got no problem with fancy decoys and the like but where do you draw the line. It will be the guy with the most money wins. You'll get guys with big honkin amps trying out out call the next guy then what, regulations governing decibels, then ya got CO's comen out measuring yer gear, what next?? If it's just the numbers yer worrying about maybe we could get some cannon nets, then ya wouldn't have them nasty holes in the birds. The problem is we don't have enough hunters to keep them in check, ecallers or not. Bag limits won't do dick all cause ya still don't have the shooters. I say let mother nature sort it out and leave well enough alone. We didn't have a problem with 20,000 birds in the 70's and 80's, maybe that's what we'll end up with after a die off? This is just my personal opinion, i guess we'll see what way it goes, but I don't wish ya any luck with it. P.S. Let me guess, you'll reply with, " You better not use an Ecaller when they're legal." To that I say, I will be one of the first guys to get one as it's the same thing that happened with the Mojo, if ya don't have one ya get out decoyed by the guy next to ya. Still don't make it right!! Merry Christmas! Kelly

f350ps
12-24-2008, 07:51 PM
I can see it now, " I'm hunting with so and so cuz he's got Dolby Digital with surround sound and Super Bird Buster amps. K

fowl language
12-24-2008, 09:56 PM
do you think we might get any new hunters with e callers.when the snow goose limit went up so did the number of mig.bird permit sales by 7 or 8 %.i agree to an extent that e callers will have the same effect as robo ducks,this wasnt just a willy nilly idea,ive researched this in the prairies with game dept. guides etc.and all agree that e callers not only inccreased mig.bird license sales but increased shooting oppurtunities. so on one hand it will hopefully introduce new hunters but it makes things easier for the experienced guys.we dont have to use them,but we also dont need to use 500 decoys but we shoulld have that right to be able to use them....we might as well try to get in some shooting till disease gets them . its true that the seasoned goose hunter doesnt need them but i hope it helps bring in new hunters.its a gamble that i think we should take especially on years like this when harvest numbers are down significantly. i see this aspect good for the bird population.ho ho ho ...fowl

f350ps
12-24-2008, 11:20 PM
Is this proposed just for Snows? If so, which I hope, but am probably wrong about, what happens when you have a flock of Canadas come in to yer set, take them or were they enticed by the machine? HUGE gray area there in my opinion. Another concern I have is, say something stupid happens and they allow them and then two years later there's a major correction attributed to mother nature with 15,000 birds remaining on the Pacific Flyway, what then?? And don't think for a minute that can't happen cuz it's happened before. If it's new hunter recruits that is driving this then I think it's So,So wrong, it's sending the wrong message I believe. Maybe I'm gettin old but whatever became of time and patience. It seems we are always looking for instant gratification. Good word eh?? Kelly

fowl language
12-26-2008, 10:21 AM
knowing that time and patients is the correct way to learn the fed believes we need to have more voices or we will eventually loss our ability to hunt, so this is the lessor of 2 evils.on your point of correction the game dept has the ability to recind the bag limit and use of e calls on short notice, as was the case of hunting on sundays in delta,all you have to do is get this info to the sporting goods stores and it spreads like wild fire,every body pretty muchly knew in 2 or 3 days.the e caller will be on snows only as it is in every other province from quebec west,i guess the question i have for you is how many times have you had canadas come to your snow goose set.personally i have never had canadas come into a set of snows,come and look yes but never within gun range.i dont feel this is an issue,but you dont have to shoot them if they did.......fowl

Gunner
12-26-2008, 11:51 AM
I love watchin' you two go!Personally I could care less about the Ecallers,I use em' for coyotes.I think Kelly is right Mother Nature will be the ultimate arbitrator,if the flock population drops,E callers and 10 bird limits will go too.As far as new hunters joining the sport to kill umpteen snows,I wouldn't be interested in hunting with them in any case.I had a lot of fun doing it the old fashioned way in the old days,and can see no reason to change!Happy Boxing day to both of you!Gunner

Gateholio
12-26-2008, 11:58 AM
I am sure I am like many hunters in saying that using an E caller will increase the chances that I may participate in a particular style of hunting.

I started hunting coyotes after E callers were made legal, and I might start hunitng geese!

It's not so much about "instant gratification" it's just making the learning curve a little shorter. It's hard enough to get people out hunting, making one aspect of it a little more accesible is a good thing.

branthunter
12-26-2008, 02:59 PM
My concern is the noise the damn things will make and how that will impact on the environment as a wildlands experience. Personally, I don't like being in the marsh near someone who is constantly on a duck call. When you get 2 or 3 sets (and, I would wager, even one)out in one area of the marsh using these things the noise will be absolutely rude and will, I guarantee it, totally ruin the experience for anyone who loves the marsh for what it is. It'll be worse than sitting in a closet with a smoker.

Gateholio
12-26-2008, 03:07 PM
Mouth calls make noise, too.:razz:

f350ps
12-26-2008, 05:37 PM
Mouth calls make noise, too.:razz:
This was his point, nothin worse than being stuck beside a guy that got a new call for christmas. Gatehouse may hunt geese if they allow ecallers is enough reason to not allow them. I think Bob hit the nail on the head! I'm done with this but I sure hope it don't get through. Kelly

Gateholio
12-26-2008, 09:12 PM
This was his point, nothin worse than being stuck beside a guy that got a new call for christmas. Gatehouse may hunt geese if they allow ecallers is enough reason to not allow them. I think Bob hit the nail on the head! I'm done with this but I sure hope it don't get through. Kelly

I thought you said we didn't have enough hunters out hunting geese? Or is that more hunters only on your terms?

If it's not a conservation concern, and it helps get people out hunting, I am all for it. :)

branthunter
12-27-2008, 11:46 AM
I thought you said we didn't have enough hunters out hunting geese? Or is that more hunters only on your terms?

If it's not a conservation concern, and it helps get people out hunting, I am all for it. :)

So if you're out hunting birds at the best spot in the marsh, or perhaps an easy to get to spot, and have your decoys and blind set up, I take it you'd be OK with some other outfit coming along and setting up 50 yds. from you? And maybe starting up a full day of hi-fi goose calling as well? After all, no conservation concern there and they might be discouraged and go home if they couldn't use that particular location. I direct this inquiry/comment not at the original issue of e-calls v. no e-calls but rather at the specious argument you use to prop up your view of that issue

Gateholio
12-27-2008, 12:08 PM
]
So if you're out hunting birds at the best spot in the marsh, or perhaps an easy to get to spot, and have your decoys and blind set up, I take it you'd be OK with some other outfit coming along and setting up 50 yds. from you? And maybe starting up a full day of hi-fi goose calling as well? After all, no conservation concern there and they might be discouraged and go home if they couldn't use that particular location

I'm not much of a waterfowl hunter, but I would think that setting up that close would be rude, no matter what sort of equipment was used?



. Do you care anything for the environment we play in or the esthetic qualities of our sport? I direct this inquiry/comment not at the original issue of e-calls v. no e-calls but rather at the specious argument you use to prop up your view of that issue

Why not just stick to the issue instead of making up scenarios where someone might go home if they dopn't get thier perfect spot?

E-callers aren't any less "esthetic" than a mouth call, they both make noise, and both can be loud or quiet, depending on what you want to do.


Maybe autoloader or pump shotguns shouldn't be allowed. After all, they aren't as esthetic as a O/U or SXS, and they hold one extra shell. Probably sending the wrong message.:wink:

branthunter
12-27-2008, 01:18 PM
"I'm not much of a waterfowl hunter, but I would think that setting up that close would be rude, no matter what sort of equipment was used?"

That's my point. You can't use arguments of conservation and promotion of hunting to support behaviour that negatively impacts the experience that others around you are seek (ie. is rude). It has nothing to do with those two things, it's just an issue of behaving (I'm characterizing the use of calls as behaviour here) in a way compatible with the enjoyment of the place by others.

"Why not just stick to the issue instead of making up scenarios where someone might go home if they dopn't get thier perfect spot? "

Are not disputes often effectively addressed by the use interoggative simile and challenging comparison? You do appear to agree with me that rude behaviour cannot be justified by the argument you put forth in support of e-calls.

"E-callers aren't any less "esthetic" than a mouth call, they both make noise, and both can be loud or quiet, depending on what you want to do."
It takes effort and talent to use a mouth call effectively. My fear is that once the button is pushed on an e-caller it will, by far too many, be left on as long as there is a goose visible above the horizon (and probably even when there isn't). Furthermore an e-call puts a whole symphony of goose noise in a place where by mouth call there is but one goose. Another horror that occurs to me is the situation where 3 sets in one area start to compete in volume with each other.I suspect that all this matters for nought in most, if not all, Canada goose hunt situations where the sets tend to be more widespread and limited by virtue of availability of terrain and ownership control of access. My concerns are arising more out of my situation of wavy hunts where we tend to be closer to each other by virtue of the limited area available and unlimited access---and the fact that we snow goose hunters in the marsh tend to hunt solo, or at most in pairs, so that the amount of noise we can make is limited (unlike Canada shoots, many of which appear to involve groups of shooters and callers). In fact most wavy hunters , like myself, use mouth and throat to call without the aide of any artificial call, a method that is even less intrusive than Mr. Olt's implements. Maybe a set of Regulations governing locale of use, duration of on time, appropriate times to push the on button, etc. might solve the problem . (I trust you see my tongue in my cheek as a say that) .

"Maybe autoloader or pump shotguns shouldn't be allowed. After all, they aren't as esthetic as a O/U or SXS, and they hold one extra shell. Probably sending the wrong message.:wink:[/QUOTE]"
Why not stick to the issue etc. :-D. This isn't an issue of what one uses to hunt or how one uses it ( altho as intimated above that latter could be an issue if in fact the things do come in), but rather one of how the method of hunting affects the experience of those in proximity to it.

And my apologies for the inquiry I edited out.

Gateholio
12-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Rude behaviour is not controlled by inanimate objects. A hunter with a mouth call can be just as rude or polite as a hunter with an e-caller.


[QUOTE]
"E-callers aren't any less "esthetic" than a mouth call, they both make noise, and both can be loud or quiet, depending on what you want to do."
It takes effort and talent to use a mouth call effectively. My fear is that once the button is pushed on an e-caller it will, by far too many, be left on as long as there is a goose visible above the horizon (and probably even when there isn't). Furthermore an e-call puts a whole symphony of goose noise in a place where by mouth call there is but one goose. Another horror that occurs to me is the situation where 3 sets in one area start to compete in volume with each other.I suspect that all this matters for nought in most, if not all, Canada goose hunt situations where the sets tend to be more widespread and limited by virtue of availability of terrain and ownership control of access. My concerns are arising more out of my situation of wavy hunts where we tend to be closer to each other by virtue of the limited area available and unlimited access---and the fact that we snow goose hunters in the marsh tend to hunt solo, or at most in pairs, so that the amount of noise we can make is limited (unlike Canada shoots, many of which appear to involve groups of shooters and callers). In fact most wavy hunters , like myself, use mouth and throat to call without the aide of any artificial call, a method that is even less intrusive than Mr. Olt's implements. Maybe a set of Regulations governing locale of use, duration of on time, appropriate times to push the on button, etc. might solve the problem . (I trust you see my tongue in my cheek as a say that) .


And it's quite possible that none of your fears materialize..Or the effects are limited. Or hunters learn to respect each other in crowded areas, just like most anglers fishing in crowded areas do. But some never will learn the respect, no matter what gear they use.




Why not stick to the issue etc. :-D. This isn't an issue of what one uses to hunt or how one uses it ( altho as intimated above that latter could be an issue if in fact the things do come in), but rather one of how the method of hunting affects the experience of those in proximity to it.

See above^^

If certain locations are so crowded that they need to limit the use of some calls, then maybe that's something to look at, but why not let others that aren't crowded use them?

But I thought there weren't enough hunters out there, anyway???:confused:

Dano
12-27-2008, 06:01 PM
When I was hunting snows in Alberta last october, the guide used an electronic call. I don't know if it made a difference to our hunt (I doubt it) but I can tell you the sound was very annoying!!!
Dan

branthunter
12-27-2008, 07:59 PM
Rude behaviour is not controlled by inanimate objects. A hunter with a mouth call can be just as rude or polite as a hunter with an e-caller.




And it's quite possible that none of your fears materialize..Or the effects are limited. Or hunters learn to respect each other in crowded areas, just like most anglers fishing in crowded areas do. But some never will learn the respect, no matter what gear they use.





See above^^

If certain locations are so crowded that they need to limit the use of some calls, then maybe that's something to look at, but why not let others that aren't crowded use them?

But I thought there weren't enough hunters out there, anyway???:confused:
"I am sure I am like many hunters in saying that using an E caller will increase the chances that I may participate in a particular style of hunting."
You obviously (and self admittedly) haven't spent much time in the marsh or you wouldn't be advocating something that would so desecrate it.
And as to promoting hunting in the sense of getting new people into it that's not what I'm about. I'm happy to help new hunters learn the ropes but I have no desire to bring out the hordes.
:lol:Any time there's somebody else in my marsh ( oh, and Kelly's too) but me and my hunt pal of the day, there's too many hunters-. Anyway......it's my marsh (and Kelly's) and we say no, so that's the end of it as far as out there goes. If you want to use e-calls in every chopped corn field in the valley feel free.:lol:

Gateholio
12-27-2008, 08:39 PM
]
"I am sure I am like many hunters in saying that using an E caller will increase the chances that I may participate in a particular style of hunting."
You obviously (and self admittedly) haven't spent much time in the marsh or you wouldn't be advocating something that would so desecrate it.

Electronic calls haven't 'desecrated" the forest where I've called for coyotes...



And as to promoting hunting in the sense of getting new people into it that's not what I'm about. I'm happy to help new hunters learn the ropes but I have no desire to bring out the hordes.

I doubt you are going to see hordes out there. Making E-callers legal fro predators has made a few more people interested, but it's not liek there are hordes stumbling all over each other!:-D



:lol:Any time there's somebody else in my marsh ( oh, and Kelly's too) but me and my hunt pal of the day, there's too many hunters-. Anyway......it's my marsh (and Kelly's) and we say no, so that's the end of it as far as out there goes. If you want to use e-calls in every chopped corn field in the valley feel free.:lol:

If you hunt on your private property, why would you be concerned about some other guy sitting too close to you and using an E caller?:confused:

mattchu_19
12-28-2008, 10:58 AM
Heres what I dont understand. Everywhere that electric callers are legal are regions where the Mid-Continet snow geese are being hunted, which also includes Blues and Ross's. The reason they have seasons with no bag-limits, unplugged guns and electric callers is because the Mid-continets population grows every year and is out of control. Here on the Pacfic coast we get the Wrangle Island population which fluxuates every year making the reason why we dont have electric callers or a conservation spring season. Also this is the same Reason Alberta doesnt get a spring season due to the fact on the spring migration the Wrangle Island bird come back through Alberta, where is Sask gets a spring season because Mid-Continet birds come back through Sask. I have always been told that the two populations of birds are completely different, meaning which mite work for one doesn't work for the other. I'm not a snow hunter, but what I mainly target is canadas. In Maryland their September Canada season that has unplugged guns and a very high bag-limit which I think is close to 10, You dont see me trying to get our September season changed to those rules.

fowl language
12-28-2008, 06:10 PM
mattchu. we have a spring snow goose season ending mar.10 every year,if it wasnt an international agreement for 110 days of harvest we would have a longer season. as to the pacific flyway it has more then doubled in population and the biologists have realized that they are basically eaten them selves out of house and home.destroying much of the marshes which are tradition feeding grounds are decimated to the point of a waste land were they have ripped up the roots,it is common knowledge we have too many geese for our flyway and the govt s only management tool available is hunting so why not maximis their ability. fowl

fowl language
12-28-2008, 06:25 PM
branthunter how do you feel we felt when you first started hunting in your marsh and had to put up with some of your rookie mistakes,is it fair to say that you were there first and you didnt have to put up with rookie mistakes. we all had to put up with rookie mistakes hopefully you can relate to this know that your one of us....fowl

f350ps
12-28-2008, 07:29 PM
Snow Geese have been eating themselves out of house and home forever, yet they keep coming back year after year. They are just moving to the fields earlier than they would normally do. What's so bad with the opportunity to hunt Snows through out the Fraser Valley, nothing in my mind. There's your so-called opportunity to get new hunters involved, and they won't even need a boat. Win Win and ya don't need E-Callers. K

Gateholio
12-28-2008, 08:09 PM
Snow Geese have been eating themselves out of house and home forever, yet they keep coming back year after year. K


Is it possible that other birds are competing for the same food and not faring as well?

Gateholio
12-28-2008, 08:16 PM
branthunter how do you feel we felt when you first started hunting in your marsh and had to put up with some of your rookie mistakes,is it fair to say that you were there first and you didnt have to put up with rookie mistakes. we all had to put up with rookie mistakes hopefully you can relate to this know that your one of us....fowl

God point, everyone was new at one point!:p

mattchu_19
12-28-2008, 08:34 PM
Yes we do have a Spring Season, but no we dont have a Spring Conservation Season, due to the fact that our snow geese population is nowhere as crazy as the Mid-Continet population. Our spring season is under the 110 days allowed. Anywhere that has a Spring Conservation Season is outside of the 110 day season, which we dont have. I dont even think the Spring Conservation Seasons fall under national duck stamps, they have their own requirments.

fowl language
12-29-2008, 07:31 PM
ordered my new e caller today wish me well on passing the resolution at the fed.agm. i will be the one speaking on it,as no one else has stepped up to speak...
mattchu,i have had disgustions with the biologistists on changing some of the dates around so we can get more time in the spring but they just arent receptive at all,the feeling from all the snow goose hunters i know is to hold off the feb. opening till march which would give us more time when they are actually here but it falls on deaf ears...fowl

f350ps
12-29-2008, 07:40 PM
[quote=fowl language;384791]ordered my new e caller today wish me well on passing the resolution at the fed.agm. i will be the one speaking on it,as no one else has stepped up to speak...
I'm shocked that no one else is behind this good idea! Is the meeting open to the public or do we have to phone and write letters to defeat this? Kelly

Gateholio
12-29-2008, 08:13 PM
[quote=fowl language;384791] Is the meeting open to the public or do we have to phone and write letters to defeat this? Kelly

You would have to be a BCWF delegate to vote at this meeting.

I am sure it will recieve good support,I will ensure our club votes for it.:-D

f350ps
12-29-2008, 08:34 PM
[quote=f350ps;384802]



I am sure it will recieve good support,I will ensure our club votes for it.:-D

So there's a couple more votes. :-D

branthunter
12-29-2008, 09:18 PM
branthunter how do you feel we felt when you first started hunting in your marsh and had to put up with some of your rookie mistakes,is it fair to say that you were there first and you didnt have to put up with rookie mistakes. we all had to put up with rookie mistakes hopefully you can relate to this know that your one of us....fowl

"How do you feel we felt when you first started hunting in your marsh"

1) You missed the smilies.
2)Who is we?
3)What year do you say I first started hunting there?
4)Who is us?
5) Who says I'm one of you? No, leave that one until I know the other answers
6) I'm proud of my rookie mistakes although I doubt that you were there to witness them.

Marsh Hawk
12-30-2008, 02:18 AM
Time to get some facts out on the table here boys. The carrying capacity for the snow geese using the habitat that is available is 40,000 - 50,000
birds. If the population continues to skyrocket as it has in recent years
(last year was approx. 96,000) these birds will be doing damage to the habitat that cannot be regenerated at a fast enough rate to sustain the population. We will then end up with disease entering and eventually have a population crash. It is inevitable. Fisheries is also concerned with the damage being done in the estuary from a habitat perspective for juvenile salmon. We as hunters are the only population control. If we have another tool in the toolbox to help out, why is that a problem? And for the record, every jurisdiction from Quebec west to Alberta allows electronic calls and the last time I checked, Ontario and Quebec are not on the central flyway.

My 2 cents.

Mark

nano
12-30-2008, 11:12 AM
My understanding is that they're more Wattery.
they say they fry good.

PGK
12-30-2008, 12:19 PM
[quote=f350ps;384802]

You would have to be a BCWF delegate to vote at this meeting.

I am sure it will recieve good support,I will ensure our club votes for it.:-D

So you will put this resolution to your Pemberton club, most of whom have never seen a snow goose, let alone having been interested in shooting one. Therefore we can assume most have no idea about snow goose poplation numbers, fluctuations or management, yet you feel the need to swing your weight in favour of something you do not fully understand, on the whim that it may increase hunter numbers?
I'll be making sure delegates from MY club vote against this resolution, if I am not there myself.

This is what's wrong with the BCWF's thought process. Letting a bunch of clueless rednecks ram through regulation change proposals by process of popular vote, and completely ignoring any science based analysis of the situation!

I think I need to get on the phone again!!

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 12:52 PM
So you will put this resolution to your Pemberton club, most of whom have never seen a snow goose, let alone having been interested in shooting one. Therefore we can assume most have no idea about snow goose poplation numbers, fluctuations or management, yet you feel the need to swing your weight in favour of something you do not fully understand, on the whim that it may increase hunter numbers? Actually Kris, we have plenty of members who are waterfowl hunters, some have been doing it for many years, and I am pretty sure there are a few who have seen a snow goose. ;)

The rest of your argument is flawed. I've been hearing about snow goose overpopulation for years. A few guys on this thread (Fowl Language and Marsh Hawk )have come up with some facts and explained the research that was done prior to proposing this regulation change.

I'm willing to support it because it may increase hunter participation, and there is no conservation concern.



I'll be making sure delegates from MY club vote against this resolution, if I am not there myself. And why is that? Is there some conservation concern?

Your first experience with goose hunting was a year or 2 ago with Bartell, correct? Tell us how you came to have such greater knowledge than some of the E-caller proponents on this thread, that have been hunting geese for decades?


How many times have you hunted snow geese? How many have you shot?

Please tell us what concerns you have about using E-callers.


This is what's wrong with the BCWF's thought process. Letting a bunch of clueless rednecks ram through regulation change proposals by process of popular vote, and completely ignoring any science based analysis of the situation!It's up to the proponents and opponents of each resolution to convince the delegates of thier position. Those that have good science seem to be more successful than those that don't.

Please share with us your science backed findings on why E-callers for snow geese would negatively impact the snow geese.


I think I need to get on the phone again!!

Better get some science to back up your arguments. On this thread all you have done is make wild ass guesses and assumptions. Kinda like when you declared there were HERDS OF HYBRID DEER!:lol:

LET'S SEE YOUR SCIENCE!!

Crazy_Farmer
12-30-2008, 01:08 PM
Your first experience with goose hunting was a year or 2 ago with Bartell, correct? Tell us how you came to have such greater knowledge than some of the E-caller proponents on this thread, that have been hunting geese for decades?

How many times have you hunted snow geese? How many have you shot?




Could we not be asking you the same thing?

He is providing his opinion on the matter, and you are doing the exact same thing, providing your opinion on the matters. What research have you done on the subject other then hearing about the snow goose population problems? You're just giving your opinion on facts that other members put on here, and your own uses of ecallers on yotes.

Also is this going to be a province wide agreement? Or just region 2-4??

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 01:14 PM
Could we not be asking you the same thing?

I've already made it clear I'm not much of a waterfowl hunter.

He is providing his opinion on the matter, and you are doing the exact same thing, providing your opinion on the matters. What research have you done on the subject other then hearing about the snow goose population problems? You're just giving your opinion on facts that other members put on here, and your own uses of ecallers on yotes.[/quote]

He is doing far more than giving his opinion, he is declaring that a bunch of people he has never met know nothing about a topic.

He asks for science based decisions, but offers no science to go along with it.

The proponents on this thread have posted some research, maybe the opponents shoudl post THIER research.

Crazy_Farmer
12-30-2008, 01:19 PM
I understand all that and see where you're coming from its just hard for me to wrap my head around the idea when everyone I've talked to out there doesnt want it. It seems like its a very very small percentage of guys who want the use of ecallers for snow geese legalized.

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 01:38 PM
I understand all that and see where you're coming from its just hard for me to wrap my head around the idea when everyone I've talked to out there doesnt want it. It seems like its a very very small percentage of guys who want the use of ecallers for snow geese legalized.

And what sort of science based reason do they have, for not wanting E-callers?

Or is it just "I don't want some guy with an E-caller hunting near me"

Because that's what most people have said. ;)

PGK
12-30-2008, 01:48 PM
One more question.

Who actually believes hunting pressure can possibly have an impact on waterfowl populations?
It has been proven time and again that hunting mortality plays only a minor role in overall waterfowl mortality. You will NOT decrease snow goose populations by allowing electronic callers. The idea itself is ridiculous.

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 02:17 PM
One more question.

Who actually believes hunting pressure can possibly have an impact on waterfowl populations?
It has been proven time and again that hunting mortality plays only a minor role in overall waterfowl mortality. You will NOT decrease snow goose populations by allowing electronic callers. The idea itself is ridiculous.

So, there will be no conservation concern using E-callers.

What are the other problems with allowing them?

PGK
12-30-2008, 02:29 PM
lol. you just astound me

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 02:38 PM
lol. you just astound me


PGKris, you haven't given one reason why they shouldn't be allowed...That astounds me.

Gunner
12-30-2008, 04:06 PM
Gatehouse,when you or I are hunting coyotes with our E callers,how far away from the nearest hunters are we?If you were set up with a predator mouth call would you appreciate a guy setting up with a Foxpro 200yds from you? I think not.I don't know if you've ever hunted the Ladner/Westham/Brunswick marshes,they are not a unlimited exspanse of fields.Hunters practise a certain code of ethics to avoid stepping on each others toes,so everyone has a chance of legally harvesting their birds,and also enjoying the experience.It's not a competion.If it ain't broke why change it?If the limits stay the same,hunter pressure will have no effect on the population,so why ruin an experience for many to satisfy a few?I started hunting that area in 1966 and have seen the snow goose population fluctate many times,I still see no need for E callers. Gunner

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 04:40 PM
Gatehouse,when you or I are hunting coyotes with our E callers,how far away from the nearest hunters are we?If you were set up with a predator mouth call would you appreciate a guy setting up with a Foxpro 200yds from you? I think not.

I'm not sure that I would be upset. It might increase my chances, actually. :wink:


I don't know if you've ever hunted the Ladner/Westham/Brunswick marshes,they are not a unlimited exspanse of fields.Hunters practise a certain code of ethics to avoid stepping on each others toes,so everyone has a chance of legally harvesting their birds,and also enjoying the experience.It's not a competion.If it ain't broke why change it?If the limits stay the same,hunter pressure will have no effect on the population,so why ruin an experience for many to satisfy a few?I started hunting that area in 1966 and have seen the snow goose population fluctate many times,I still see no need for E callers. Gunner

How do you know that use of an E caller would change that?

If there are concerns about E caller use in a very small area of the province, why not look for a local solution for that area,(such as the bow only or shotgun only areas) rather than the whole province?

Everybody seems to think that if someone has an E-caller the sky will fall. Has anyone asked hunters in areas that allow them how well they have been received?

HuntNHookSports
12-30-2008, 04:56 PM
I am with Gate on this one.
If what other people are doing concerned me, I would hunt somewhere else.

Gunner
12-30-2008, 04:59 PM
I know a number of hunters using them for snows in Saskatchewan.you still have to set up correctly but they can increase the harvest especially since the birds in the prairies travel in huge flocks quite often,and require large decoy sets and lots of noise to pull them in.Again you have hundreds of square miles to shoot,NOT two or three pocket marshes,that already have more hunters than the area can readily support.The next time you are in Vancouver I suggest you take a drive out to Westham and Brunswick,then decide if the area is suitable for Ecallers.I will be lobbying my club to defeat this resolution.Oh by the way 40 years of experience in those small marshes leads me to believe that Ecallers have the possibility of ruining the experience of marsh hunting,I've had enough trips ruined over the years by unthinking "sportsmen".Remember,most of the people that are voicing opposition to this proposal are people who actually hunt this area,the opinions of those who don't do not carry much weight with me.I know most of the propononents on both sides of the issue,at least they actually hunt the area.They will sort it out one way or the other! Gunner

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 05:29 PM
I know a number of hunters using them for snows in Saskatchewan.you still have to set up correctly but they can increase the harvest especially since the birds in the prairies travel in huge flocks quite often,and require large decoy sets and lots of noise to pull them in.Again you have hundreds of square miles to shoot,NOT two or three pocket marshes,that already have more hunters than the area can readily support.The next time you are in Vancouver I suggest you take a drive out to Westham and Brunswick,then decide if the area is suitable for Ecallers.I will be lobbying my club to defeat this resolution

This will effect the whole province. If your concerns area actually valid, why not seek a local solution rather than have your situation affect hunters outside the Lower Mainland?




Remember,most of the people that are voicing opposition to this proposal are people who actually hunt this area,the opinions of those who don't do not carry much weight with me.I know most of the propononents on both sides of the issue,at least they actually hunt the area.They will sort it out one way or the other! Gunner

The proposal came form hunters that hunt "your" area.


the opinions of those who don't do not carry much weight with me.

So the opinion of goose hunters from outside the Lower Mainland are not valid, since they don't share your local situation?



.Oh by the way 40 years of experience in those small marshes leads me to believe that Ecallers have the possibility of ruining the experience of marsh hunting,I've had enough trips ruined over the years by unthinking "sportsmen".

And none of those guys were using E-callers?:cool:

Gunner
12-30-2008, 05:37 PM
Gatehouse,maybe you're not that familiar with snow goose hunting in BC,the 3 pocket marshes in the Ladner area are the ONLY areas in BC that is regularly hunted for snow geese.This proposal will affect ONLY this area.And yes a local solution will be forthcoming,I only hope it does not include the Ecallers,I doubt it will. Gunner (it does'nt take an Ecaller to ruin someone else's day,Check out IanF's post)

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 05:42 PM
There are open Snow Goose seasons all over BC.

Maybe the use of E-Callers will encourage more partcipation in the other parts of BC affected by this regulation change.

Gunner
12-30-2008, 05:46 PM
I give up.Gatehouse I suggest you take your 12ga. and go sit on your porch and wait for a snow goose to fly by! Gunner

Gateholio
12-30-2008, 06:00 PM
I give up.Gatehouse I suggest you take your 12ga. and go sit on your porch and wait for a snow goose to fly by! Gunner

Gunner, I don't think I would get a snow goose from my porch. However I don't think the snow geese just magically transport themselves from thier summer area to one specific spot in the Lower Mainland that you happen to hunt either.

Here is a map of thier fall migration from Hinterland Who's Who :)

http://www.hww.ca/%7EContent/51/Images/N-MAP.JPG

Farmer John
12-30-2008, 06:10 PM
Gunner, i agree with you 100% I live on Westham and love getting out for a good duck/goose shoot. But my favorite thing about being out there is the simplicity of it, the tranquility, and how peaceful it can be. I really don't want to hear that constant chatter box while i'm out there. Furthermore, I think alot of new hunters may be turned off the sport when they head out for a goose shoot with their 20 dollar call only to be skunked by someone with a top of the line e caller pulling all the birds. New hunters are not going to invest hundreds in an e caller after they've paid for a gun and a few decoys.

Gunner
12-30-2008, 06:15 PM
If you check in to it,you'll find out that that's exactly what they do!90% of our snow geese summer on Wrangel Island,just off northern Siberia.They make an almost direct flight to the Lower Mainland area and utilise both the local marshes and the marshes at the mouth of the Skagit River in Washington State.Some years part of the population continues down into Central California to winter.Try Tavener's "Birds of Canada" for reference.There are not enough snows anywhere else in BC to justify hunting for them,no matter what the Regs say.I'm not just making this up as I go along you know! :smile:Gunner

Gunner
12-30-2008, 06:57 PM
Gunner, i agree with you 100% I live on Westham and love getting out for a good duck/goose shoot. But my favorite thing about being out there is the simplicity of it, the tranquility, and how peaceful it can be. I really don't want to hear that constant chatter box while i'm out there. Furthermore, I think alot of new hunters may be turned off the sport when they head out for a goose shoot with their 20 dollar call only to be skunked by someone with a top of the line e caller pulling all the birds. New hunters are not going to invest hundreds in an e caller after they've paid for a gun and a few decoys.Exactly!I've always found that the hunt takes precedence over the actual shooting,as far as enjoyment goes.I sold my snow goose and brant decoys when I moved to the Interior,but I shoot just as many mallards and geese here as I did on the Coast.The one thing I miss is the salt marsh,there is just no other place like it.E calls on the prairies where you have lots of room are one thing,but to use them in the small marshes of Westham and Brunswick is another thing altogether.How many snows does a guy have to kill to have a good day? Cheers Gunner

branthunter
01-03-2009, 03:32 PM
Gatehouse says at post #47 "Please share with us your science backed findings on why E-callers for snow geese would negatively impact the snow geese.
Gatehouse says at post #49: “The proponents on this thread have posted some research, maybe the opponents shoudl post THIER research.”

The proponents here keep citing science so you must have researched this point and I think it would be beneficial to the discussion if you posted citations to that literature which supports your position. The proponents pitch seems to be based on two things, 1)e-calls will help control the snow goose population,and 2) e-calls will bring out more hunters. From the scientific viewpoint it’s important to realize here that the fact that A leads to B and B plays some role in C does not mean that A leads to C.
To put that in our current context, just because e-calls lead to more goose mortality and increased goose mortality reduces the goose population , it does not follow that e-calls will lead to " the desired population reduction controls" (quote taken from the following article cited from the Journal of Wildlife Management---note the last sentence of the abstract). If any of the proponents here have any science that says the opposite please post it, as we’d all be interested in seeing it. In fact I would be interested in seeing any of the scientific research upon which they purport to rely and/or which you (Gatehouse) say the proponents have already posted here. (perhaps you could just refer me to the forum and post # where you say they have posted this info on here.). Here’s the one directly on point scientific article I’ve been able to find (just Google, I didn’t do a full science database search)http://www.jstor.org/pss/3803208



Gatehouse says at post #57: "If there are concerns about E caller use in a very small area of the province, why not look for a local solution for that area,(such as the bow only or shotgun only areas) rather than the whole province? " AND at post#60 "This will effect the whole province. If your concerns area actually valid, why not seek a local solution rather than have your situation affect hunters outside the Lower Mainland?"

As Gunner has already pointed out the ONLY snow goose hunt in B.C. is here on the Fraser delta (although apparently somebody got a couple over near Cowichan in the last few days, possibly a first and probably due to the increased population looking for new forage areas. This I think is a very good sign. Let the geese adapt in their own way rather than seeking to exterminate them) and occurs over a very limited area within which the use of e-callers would have a very significantly deleterious effect on the enjoyment of those within hearing of it. Go to…. http://www.performancecalls.com/snowgoosecd.html.... and play both e-calls simultaneously at full volume and judge for your self if you want two or three stereo systems blaring that racket out down the marsh from you all day.

Over the last few days I have discussed this matter with everyone I know who regularly hunts snows as well as a few who have been out with me occasionally over the last 25 yrs (12 in all counting myself). The regulars are all accomplished wavy hunters, all of whom would normally spend 12 to 20 (to pick rough numbers) days a year hunting these birds in the marsh. All but 2 (one said he’d go along with the majority and the other wanted to think on it and hasn’t gotten back to me yet) were strongly opposed to the use of e-calls here, pointing out that they are unnecessary and will amount to noise pollution (none used this term but it nicely and politely sums up some long, expletive filled responses). All waxed eloquent, in their own ways, about what a treasure our marshes are and what a shame it would be to despoil them with something like e-calls. As to the “unnecessary”, all emphasized that e-calls alone will not a snow goose hunter make. All said, in one way or another, that you only become an effective snow goose hunter through years of learning the role of tides, weather (including how to survive it when it blows up) time of year and day, recent activity (ie . it helps to hunt a lot during any given season to be able to go out and shoot a limit on any given day, regardless of accumulated experience over the years), where to be on the marsh, camouflage hides, and calling.

This concept of “rookie” that Fowl and I have been poking pins in each other with has considerable reality behind it. It took a lot of years for me to be willing to even mention myself in the same sentence with most of those to whom I spoke ( and from whom I am still learning), and several of them echoed how I have always felt when they alluded to having gone through the same process, and that it was in fact that process itself that had made them addicts to the sport and had so endeared the marsh environment to them. It was clear that to each of them the marsh was a special place and that it was the being there, with the birds, that was what kept them coming back, not big kill numbers. None felt the need to be exterminators on behalf of mother nature. None were against e-calls because it is a mechanical device. Some use Mojos and some don’t.
Few, I think, appreciate how precious our foreshore marshes here at the mouth of the Fraser really are, either as a natural resource or as a hunting resource. They are wildly beautiful, seriously dangerous at times, and always different. It is learning to adapt to and function within that that makes a hunter, not a new gadget. Many new hunters are able to shoot a few ducks because of Mojos but I wonder if they enjoy or appreciate the experience as much as if they had come to that ability through learning the old ways first. In any case Mojos are not a valid comparison with e-calls. Mojos are nothing more than a twinkle in the distance in their effect on other hunters and the environment..When the e-calls are on nobody will even be able to hear the sounds the real geese make. How sad would that be?


Gatehouse says at post #60: "The proposal came form hunters that hunt "your" area."

See above


Gatehouse says at post #60: "So the opinion of goose hunters from outside the Lower Mainland are not valid, since they don't share your local situation?"

Remove the question mark and for once you'd be right. They certainly won’t have to share the aggravation of the noise pollution .

Gatehouse says at post #57: "Has anyone asked hunters in areas that allow them how well they have been received?"



In my view that would only be meaningful if they had been used in similar environments. I’m not aware of them having been used in small salt marsh environments. In fact I'm not sure that there is another place on the continent where you can hunt snow geese over open water on a salt marsh. To my knowledge e-calls are only used in the open agricultural areas of the central continent.



.

Farmer John says at post #65: " But my favorite thing about being out there is the simplicity of it, the tranquility, and how peaceful it can be."


This young man has lived on the edge of the marshes of which we speak and amongst the birds in question all his life and in this one simple, heartful sentence has summed up what us old timers have so clumsily been trying to get across to those of you who out of ignorance, or lack of understanding, or whatever other motive would sully it. Like the “regulars” of whom I spoke above, he and his friends and our sons and all the young guys like 870 are going through the learning process the right way to be the “regulars” of tomorrow. They are not about instant fixes. They are about going out and doing it, over and over, until they have absorbed the knowledge and skills needed to be and effective and ethical hunters.

Gatehouse says at post#64:"Here is a map of thier fall migration from Hinterland Who's Who "

In the world of science it is a sin to rely on partial literature references to make one's point which taken alone and out of context with the rest of the publication can lead to erroneous conclusions. This diagram you posted was taken from a general education book and unfortunately is a map of waterfowl migration routes, NOT snow goose migration routes. A careful reading of the text accompanying this rudimentary diagram reveals no reference to snow goose migration routes in B.C. other than the coastal one ending here on the Fraser Delta. There is only one area where wavies are hunted in B.C in any numbers and that's right here on the Fraser Delta http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?id=51&cid=7

Thank you to the guys I spoke with about this and who have shared their friendship and their experiences and passion for the sport and the marsh with me. On your behalf, these photos of what we do and where we do it.

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo126/branthunter/Snow%20goose%20marsh/PICT0116.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo126/branthunter/Snow%20goose%20marsh/PICT0022.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo126/branthunter/Snow%20goose%20marsh/PICT0007.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo126/branthunter/Snow%20goose%20marsh/DSC_0034.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo126/branthunter/Snow%20goose%20marsh/DSC_0126.jpg

I hope to be at the BCWF annual convention this spring in April to speak in opposition to this idea. PM me if you want to add your support.

Crazy_Farmer
01-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Those last two photos are simply amazing Bob. Great post aswell.

climbingshuksan
01-03-2009, 04:29 PM
I tried to post this, but it seemed not to show up, I apologize if it appears twice.

This hunter is Totally opposed to electronic goose calls. Think about it.

A group of newly attracted hunters to the front come in from behind and set within 100 yards. Enticed by huge limits and possibly the ease of calling in flocks like the champion callers they are not, they wait. They see a flock high heading to the refuge. They turn their electronic voices up as loud as they will go. The birds drop, still out of range, they shoot. Nothing falls. Anxiously I see a flock coming out of Steveston. I call once, wait for a reply, they return the call, I repeat one more high shrill squawk. They are convinced. They come. Then the chorus begins behind me, a blast of technology, like cellphones. The loudspeakers track the birds dropping down, they look, they turn by the championship voices from the Mid-West. I sit there with my son watching as the flock swings their way, my call hanging from my lips. I'm hooped or "corked" as a fisherman would say.

What do we do? What else, pick-up and leave. There's three of them, we'd have to wait for 30-birds to be shot. They will be there the full day.

It's all nonsense. Why take such a tremendous sport and turn it into any more of a circus than it has with the limit of 10 geese? When ever has the front been so littered with dead and dying geese? Those are not white plastic bottles floating out there, they are geese.

Give new hunters something to aspire to, make them learn how to shoot, set decoys, call, build a layout boat, don't coddle them. I'd argue they would be more thrilled with 5-birds taken in fair chase then 10 slaughtered by Bubba the Pied Piper of the deep south.

Gateholio
01-03-2009, 04:40 PM
The proponents here keep citing science so you must have researched this point and I think it would be beneficial to the discussion if you posted citations to that literature which supports your position.

My post was in response to PGK's rant about using science...

The proponents of the E-callers mentioned on a post about looking into them in areas that allow them. All I've seen from the opponents is that they don't want things to change, but they don't have any real evidence that using E-callers will ruin anything, it's just a hunch on thier part. They think it will "despoil" the marsh, but it's just a noise maker, like thier own noise makers.




Here is the text that accompanied the Hinterland Who's Who map:


Surprisingly, in an age of declining wildlife populations, Lesser Snow Geese have doubled in number since the mid-1970s, and among North American geese, their numbers are second only to those of the Canada Goose. However, because there are many subspecies and races of Canada Geese, the Lesser Snow Goose can probably be considered the single most abundant goose in Canada. Currently, about 2 000 000 nest in Canada, along the coast of Hudson Bay, from Cape Henrietta Maria in Ontario to Keewatin; on Southampton Island and on southern Baffin Island, Nunavut, and in northern Mackenzie and Keewatin south of Queen Maud Gulf, Nunavut; and on Banks Island in the Northwest Territories. The other major concentration of breeding Lesser Snow Geese in the world is the one on Wrangel Island in eastern Siberia, where there are now about 100 000 birds.

Although most Lesser Snow Geese nest in Canada, only 20 000 to 40 000 winter in this country—in south-coastal British Columbia—and they originate on Wrangel Island. Birds nesting in the Canadian Arctic winter in central California, New Mexico, the interior highlands of Mexico, and along the Gulf of Mexico, both on the coast and, increasingly, in inland areas.

Because Lesser Snow Geese breeding in Canada are spread over such a vast area, they take many different routes between their breeding and wintering areas. Lesser Snow Geese breeding in the western Arctic form pre-migration staging flocks in the Mackenzie River delta and along the north coast of Yukon and Alaska. On migration they fly up the Mackenzie River, through Alberta and western Saskatchewan and on to central California or the interior of Mexico.

Birds from the eastern Arctic stage in very large numbers in James Bay and on the west coast of Hudson Bay before heading farther south. During migration they pass through Manitoba and Ontario, on a rather broad front, en route to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico.

Major shifts in autumn distribution have taken place in prairie Canada since 1975. In that year 50 000 to 100 000 Lesser Snow Geese started to use a more westerly route through eastern Saskatchewan. The shift from southwestern Manitoba to eastern Saskatchewan continued in subsequent years. This means that birds from the central Arctic fly in two directions: one southwestward corridor takes them into Alberta and western Saskatchewan; another southeastward corridor goes through southern Manitoba.

Birds from Wrangel Island in Siberia fly across the Bering Strait to Alaska and down the west coast of British Columbia to major wintering areas on the Fraser River,the Skagit River in Washington, and in central California. Some, also bound for California, fly up the Mackenzie River and through Alberta.


Has anyone looked up the coast a bit? Are we sure that there is no where else in BC that has snow geese? I could have sworn I saw white geese on a fall grizz hunt near Bella Coola a few years ago. Pretty much every bird from eagle to ducks to geese were there to feed on the spawning salmon. I could be wrong and I wish I had taken pics, but I didn't know this was going to come up! :)




Gatehouse says at post #57: "Has anyone asked hunters in areas that allow them how well they have been received?"



In my view that would only be meaningful if they had been used in similar environments. I’m not aware of them having been used in small salt marsh environments. In fact I'm not sure that there is another place on the continent where you can hunt snow geese over open water on a salt marsh. To my knowledge e-calls are only used in the open agricultural areas of the central continent.

So, the answer is no? Everyone just "knows" that an E-caller will ruin things, no matter who is doing the calling, I guess....




Gatehouse says at post #60: "So the opinion of goose hunters from outside the Lower Mainland are not valid, since they don't share your local situation?"

Remove the question mark and for once you'd be right. They certainly won’t have to share the aggravation of the noise pollution .

If this is the case, perhaps Lower Mainlanders shouldn't have a say in what happens in other areas of the province, either?

The proposal came from hunters in your area, remember.

branthunter
01-03-2009, 09:19 PM
My post was in response to PGK's rant about using science...

The proponents of the E-callers mentioned on a post about looking into them in areas that allow them. All I've seen from the opponents is that they don't want things to change, but they don't have any real evidence that using E-callers will ruin anything, it's just a hunch on thier part. They think it will "despoil" the marsh, but it's just a noise maker, like thier own noise makers.




Here is the text that accompanied the Hinterland Who's Who map:


Surprisingly, in an age of declining wildlife populations, Lesser Snow Geese have doubled in number since the mid-1970s, and among North American geese, their numbers are second only to those of the Canada Goose. However, because there are many subspecies and races of Canada Geese, the Lesser Snow Goose can probably be considered the single most abundant goose in Canada. Currently, about 2 000 000 nest in Canada, along the coast of Hudson Bay, from Cape Henrietta Maria in Ontario to Keewatin; on Southampton Island and on southern Baffin Island, Nunavut, and in northern Mackenzie and Keewatin south of Queen Maud Gulf, Nunavut; and on Banks Island in the Northwest Territories. The other major concentration of breeding Lesser Snow Geese in the world is the one on Wrangel Island in eastern Siberia, where there are now about 100 000 birds.

Although most Lesser Snow Geese nest in Canada, only 20 000 to 40 000 winter in this country—in south-coastal British Columbia—and they originate on Wrangel Island. Birds nesting in the Canadian Arctic winter in central California, New Mexico, the interior highlands of Mexico, and along the Gulf of Mexico, both on the coast and, increasingly, in inland areas.

Because Lesser Snow Geese breeding in Canada are spread over such a vast area, they take many different routes between their breeding and wintering areas. Lesser Snow Geese breeding in the western Arctic form pre-migration staging flocks in the Mackenzie River delta and along the north coast of Yukon and Alaska. On migration they fly up the Mackenzie River, through Alberta and western Saskatchewan and on to central California or the interior of Mexico.

Birds from the eastern Arctic stage in very large numbers in James Bay and on the west coast of Hudson Bay before heading farther south. During migration they pass through Manitoba and Ontario, on a rather broad front, en route to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico.

Major shifts in autumn distribution have taken place in prairie Canada since 1975. In that year 50 000 to 100 000 Lesser Snow Geese started to use a more westerly route through eastern Saskatchewan. The shift from southwestern Manitoba to eastern Saskatchewan continued in subsequent years. This means that birds from the central Arctic fly in two directions: one southwestward corridor takes them into Alberta and western Saskatchewan; another southeastward corridor goes through southern Manitoba.

Birds from Wrangel Island in Siberia fly across the Bering Strait to Alaska and down the west coast of British Columbia to major wintering areas on the Fraser River,the Skagit River in Washington, and in central California. Some, also bound for California, fly up the Mackenzie River and through Alberta.

So what's your point?
Has anyone looked up the coast a bit? Are we sure that there is no where else in BC that has snow geese? I could have sworn I saw white geese on a fall grizz hunt near Bella Coola a few years ago. Pretty much every bird from eagle to ducks to geese were there to feed on the spawning salmon. I could be wrong and I wish I had taken pics, but I didn't know this was going to come up! :)

Yes, I have. I've hunted ducks and geese at the head of Bute and Knight Inlets and never once seen snow geese. A friend hunts regularly out of Sayward and Comox and the only snow geese he's ever seen there are the high flyers on their way south.





So, the answer is no? Everyone just "knows" that an E-caller will ruin things, no matter who is doing the calling, I guess....





If this is the case, perhaps Lower Mainlanders shouldn't have a say in what happens in other areas of the province, either?

Especially if what they propose is going to adversely affect the experience of those who live there and have hunted their all their lives.

The proposal came from hunters in your area, remember.

Other than Fowl I do not know who they are but I do know that they are not the local hunters who are out there in the marsh all the time and have been doing it for 30+ years. Those guys are against it because it won't achieve the stated scientific purpose ( most of them know this instinctively) and it will screw up the environment and the experience they love.

branthunter
01-03-2009, 09:24 PM
My post was in response to PGK's rant about using science...

The proponents of the E-callers mentioned on a post about looking into them in areas that allow them. All I've seen from the opponents is that they don't want things to change, but they don't have any real evidence that using E-callers will ruin anything, it's just a hunch on thier part. They think it will "despoil" the marsh, but it's just a noise maker, like thier own noise makers.




Here is the text that accompanied the Hinterland Who's Who map:


Surprisingly, in an age of declining wildlife populations, Lesser Snow Geese have doubled in number since the mid-1970s, and among North American geese, their numbers are second only to those of the Canada Goose. However, because there are many subspecies and races of Canada Geese, the Lesser Snow Goose can probably be considered the single most abundant goose in Canada. Currently, about 2 000 000 nest in Canada, along the coast of Hudson Bay, from Cape Henrietta Maria in Ontario to Keewatin; on Southampton Island and on southern Baffin Island, Nunavut, and in northern Mackenzie and Keewatin south of Queen Maud Gulf, Nunavut; and on Banks Island in the Northwest Territories. The other major concentration of breeding Lesser Snow Geese in the world is the one on Wrangel Island in eastern Siberia, where there are now about 100 000 birds.

Although most Lesser Snow Geese nest in Canada, only 20 000 to 40 000 winter in this country—in south-coastal British Columbia—and they originate on Wrangel Island. Birds nesting in the Canadian Arctic winter in central California, New Mexico, the interior highlands of Mexico, and along the Gulf of Mexico, both on the coast and, increasingly, in inland areas.

Because Lesser Snow Geese breeding in Canada are spread over such a vast area, they take many different routes between their breeding and wintering areas. Lesser Snow Geese breeding in the western Arctic form pre-migration staging flocks in the Mackenzie River delta and along the north coast of Yukon and Alaska. On migration they fly up the Mackenzie River, through Alberta and western Saskatchewan and on to central California or the interior of Mexico.

Birds from the eastern Arctic stage in very large numbers in James Bay and on the west coast of Hudson Bay before heading farther south. During migration they pass through Manitoba and Ontario, on a rather broad front, en route to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico.

Major shifts in autumn distribution have taken place in prairie Canada since 1975. In that year 50 000 to 100 000 Lesser Snow Geese started to use a more westerly route through eastern Saskatchewan. The shift from southwestern Manitoba to eastern Saskatchewan continued in subsequent years. This means that birds from the central Arctic fly in two directions: one southwestward corridor takes them into Alberta and western Saskatchewan; another southeastward corridor goes through southern Manitoba.

Birds from Wrangel Island in Siberia fly across the Bering Strait to Alaska and down the west coast of British Columbia to major wintering areas on the Fraser River,the Skagit River in Washington, and in central California. Some, also bound for California, fly up the Mackenzie River and through Alberta.


Has anyone looked up the coast a bit? Are we sure that there is no where else in BC that has snow geese? I could have sworn I saw white geese on a fall grizz hunt near Bella Coola a few years ago. Pretty much every bird from eagle to ducks to geese were there to feed on the spawning salmon. I could be wrong and I wish I had taken pics, but I didn't know this was going to come up! :)





So, the answer is no? Everyone just "knows" that an E-caller will ruin things, no matter who is doing the calling, I guess....





If this is the case, perhaps Lower Mainlanders shouldn't have a say in what happens in other areas of the province, either?

The proposal came from hunters in your area, remember.

I forgot to ask, where's the evidence from you that I requested.

Gateholio
01-03-2009, 09:56 PM
I forgot to ask, where's the evidence from you that I requested.

I don't have any evidence either way- I didn't say I had any, nor did I say I researched the topic. I'm not even a waterfowl hunter. I said that the people that proposed this had stated they have done some research, and I havent' seen any from the other side.

The reason I am interested in this topic is because it seems like there are people who are scared of change and claim the sky will fall- with no evidence.

Or others who just dont' seem to want others to get involved or share "thier" spots (the most likely person to try an E- Caller will probably be newer hunters, since they have less calling skill)

That seems to be a common theme..."Just imagine 3 new guys with an e-caller shooting too far away and spoiling it for everyone"

The E-callers are just noise makers, like mouth calls. They arent' inherently evil. All they really do is shorten the learning curve a bit.

Marsh Hawk
01-03-2009, 11:17 PM
Branthunter

You do know who I am as well. I started my time hunting the marsh almost 30 years ago. I was 12 when I started to hunt the marsh. I remember when it took leaving really early on opening day to have a spot out front. I also remember finding one of those really deep ditches on a cold January day in the inner marsh. I cherish the memories of shooting my limit while watching a hawk try to land on my dad's head. I realize what you mean that the marsh is a special place although I don't get out there much. Working 6 days a week will do that.

I have also spent a lot of time over the last 20 years representing the hunting community in Delta. From club meetings to Hunting regulation advisory committee (Corp of Delta) to Boundary Bay wildlife Management Area PAC, I am as involved as anybody can get. Though I have less time to hunt due to working too much, I still make sure that I get out to meetings that make sure that we still have the right to hunt in Delta.

I have a suggestion for anyone that has an opinion about this subject. Get involved. This resolution has been put forward by the local gun club.
The only one I am sure is a member on here is Fowl. We work very hard on everyone's behalf to make sure that our rights to hunt in Delta and in other areas is preserved for as long as possible. Make no mistake about it , it takes a lot of hours of hard work to make sure that our rights are preserved.

Get involved in your local club. Clubs like ours are a function of our "involved" membership. Lots of people sit in the background and make comments about the decisions made by those that are involved. If you are not willing to help us out by getting involved in decision making processes directly, don't make a big fuss about it in a forum like this. All of the bickering on here does nothing to further this issue one way or the other.
Having your input at the club level would be more than welcome.

Hopefully I can find a day off to come out and join you out in the marsh some time.

Mark

And remember, the world is run by those who show up.

branthunter
01-03-2009, 11:53 PM
I don't have any evidence either way- I didn't say I had any, nor did I say I researched the topic. I'm not even a waterfowl hunter. I said that the people that proposed this had stated they have done some research, and I havent' seen any from the other side.

The reason I am interested in this topic is because it seems like there are people who are scared of change and claim the sky will fall- with no evidence.

Or others who just dont' seem to want others to get involved or share "thier" spots (the most likely person to try an E- Caller will probably be newer hunters, since they have less calling skill)

That seems to be a common theme..."Just imagine 3 new guys with an e-caller shooting too far away and spoiling it for everyone"

The E-callers are just noise makers, like mouth calls. They arent' inherently evil. All they really do is shorten the learning curve a bit.


Aren't you being a bit deceitful about the research thing.
? You even purported to post some , albeit misleadingly. In any case my challenge to post some of the scientific research that you alluded to as being out there has as yet gone unmet. It was issued to all the proponents, not just you.
And what's this about "who are scared of change and claim the sky will fall- with no evidence."? Our evidence is the research paper abstract the URL of which I posted, the lack of specifically cited evidence on the proponent's part, and even more importantly the more than 400 cumulated years of snow goose hunting experience we rely on to say what we say about the effectiveness of these calls in our environment and the disruption they will cause.
You're wrong --e-calls won't shorten the learning curve, if you define that curve by an endpoint of being able to go out and decoy geese within range. Calling is the least important part of getting snow geese to decoy. Most of the geese I shoot, I haven't called at all. The most important factors are all those I described as being part of the learning process. So what you will end up with is guys who don't know how to do all the other stuff out there thinking that if they just play their e-call a little louder and a little longer they too will get geese in the decoys. They won't, and their learning curve will be a lot steeper, longer, and less enjoyable.

As far as you saying they are just "noise makers" it can only be your lack of experience that leads you to say that. If you're going to befoul a pristine wild place with useless noise you better have a damn good reason for doing so. What do you think would be the response of all the alpine hunters on this website if someone who knows nothing about the alpine environment ( and I do---I've spent many days of my life there, both as a climber and as a hunter) came along and started advocating an e-call for elk that simulated 1000s of elk bugling and that was to be played non-stop at top volume any time an elk was known to be within hearing? (OK, I know elk do not, like geese, call all at once ---I only use the comparison to raise the specter of befouling the alpine with noise.... to me that would be as bad as what e-callers want to do to our marshes.) Have you ever heard the roar these things make? Did you take my suggestion of going to the Performance Calls website and playing both CD's simultaneously at full volume? Have you ever watched outdoor channels where they are being used in shows about snow goose hunting? Have you ever been close to a big flock of snow geese and listened to the noise? These things will not make it easier for novices to get geese and they will not control the goose population explosion---all they will do is spoil the experience for the rest of us and I include in "us" all the novice goose hunters yet to enter the sport.

Your slander of me and the fellows I spoke of in my post is untrue and just plain ignorant nastiness in it's accusation that we want to keep it to ourselves. Did you think first to ask us how many new people we have introduced to the sport? how many we take out with us every year that otherwise would not get a chance to hunt snow geese? We all do it and we all like doing it. Sharing such hard won knowledge and skills is even more satisfying than acquiring it. But don't just put up a post saying I want to be a goose hunter, can I come with you. I'm not interested in taking someone out who hasn't already, like 870 for instance, shown the interest and keenness to get some of the necessary gear and get out there first on his own. Those of us with sons have all gotten their boys into the sport--the best part of all I might add.
It seems very strange to me that you are one of the most persistent proponents of the "in favour" side of this dispute on this website yet have little or no experience with the sport under discussion, know very little if anything about the facts underlying the issues, and won't be affected by the outcome of the debate.

branthunter
01-04-2009, 12:04 AM
Branthunter

You do know who I am as well. I started my time hunting the marsh almost 30 years ago. I was 12 when I started to hunt the marsh. I remember when it took leaving really early on opening day to have a spot out front. I also remember finding one of those really deep ditches on a cold January day in the inner marsh. I cherish the memories of shooting my limit while watching a hawk try to land on my dad's head. I realize what you mean that the marsh is a special place although I don't get out there much. Working 6 days a week will do that.

I have also spent a lot of time over the last 20 years representing the hunting community in Delta. From club meetings to Hunting regulation advisory committee (Corp of Delta) to Boundary Bay wildlife Management Area PAC, I am as involved as anybody can get. Though I have less time to hunt due to working too much, I still make sure that I get out to meetings that make sure that we still have the right to hunt in Delta.

I have a suggestion for anyone that has an opinion about this subject. Get involved. This resolution has been put forward by the local gun club.
The only one I am sure is a member on here is Fowl. We work very hard on everyone's behalf to make sure that our rights to hunt in Delta and in other areas is preserved for as long as possible. Make no mistake about it , it takes a lot of hours of hard work to make sure that our rights are preserved.

Get involved in your local club. Clubs like ours are a function of our "involved" membership. Lots of people sit in the background and make comments about the decisions made by those that are involved. If you are not willing to help us out by getting involved in decision making processes directly, don't make a big fuss about it in a forum like this. All of the bickering on here does nothing to further this issue one way or the other.
Having your input at the club level would be more than welcome.

Hopefully I can find a day off to come out and join you out in the marsh some time.

Mark

And remember, the world is run by those who show up.

I sent you a PM.

Gateholio
01-04-2009, 01:44 AM
]
Aren't you being a bit deceitful about the research thing.

I'm not being deceitful at all. I stated up front that I wasn't a waterfowler, nor did I profess to have scientific knowledge of it. I posted that one of the proponents had said they had looked into it, and I also responded to PGKris' rant about making decisions on science, that none of the opponents had provided any.

?
You even purported to post some , albeit misleadingly. In any case my challenge to post some of the scientific research that you alluded to as being out there has as yet gone unmet. It was issued to all the proponents, not just you.
And what's this about "who are scared of change and claim the sky will fall- with no evidence."? Our evidence is the research paper abstract the URL of which I posted, the lack of specifically cited evidence on the proponent's part, and even more importantly the more than 400 cumulated years of snow goose hunting experience we rely on to say what we say about the effectiveness of these calls in our environment and the disruption they will cause.
You're wrong --e-calls won't shorten the learning curve, if you define that curve by an endpoint of being able to go out and decoy geese within range. Calling is the least important part of getting snow geese to decoy. Most of the geese I shoot, I haven't called at all. The most important factors are all those I described as being part of the learning process. So what you will end up with is guys who don't know how to do all the other stuff out there thinking that if they just play their e-call a little louder and a little longer they too will get geese in the decoys. They won't, and their learning curve will be a lot steeper, longer, and less enjoyable.

As far as you saying they are just "noise makers" it can only be your lack of experience that leads you to say that. If you're going to befoul a pristine wild place with useless noise you better have a damn good reason for doing so. What do you think would be the response of all the alpine hunters on this website if someone who knows nothing about the alpine environment ( and I do---I've spent many days of my life there, both as a climber and as a hunter) came along and started advocating an e-call for elk that simulated 1000s of elk bugling and that was to be played non-stop at top volume any time an elk was known to be within hearing? (OK, I know elk do not, like geese, call all at once ---I only use the comparison to raise the specter of befouling the alpine with noise.... to me that would be as bad as what e-callers want to do to our marshes.) Have you ever heard the roar these things make? Did you take my suggestion of going to the Performance Calls website and playing both CD's simultaneously at full volume? Have you ever watched outdoor channels where they are being used in shows about snow goose hunting? Have you ever been close to a big flock of snow geese and listened to the noise? These things will not make it easier for novices to get geese and they will not control the goose population explosion---all they will do is spoil the experience for the rest of us and I include in "us" all the novice goose hunters yet to enter the sport.

I have an E-caller that I use for predators. It makes noise. My mouth calls make noise. Using an e-caller shortens the learnign curve and helps a hunter on the calling aspect. Just like what you describe with goose hunting, using an e-caller for predators is not a cure all. You need to have the proper set up, watch the wind, etc. You assume that people will go out and play thier E-caller long and loud, and ignore the rest of it....but nobody that has one for predator hunting has relied solely on their caller to bring in animals. People arent' always dumb, most learn pretty quick that a caller is just part of the package, not the whole package.




Your slander of me and the fellows I spoke of in my post is untrue and just plain ignorant nastiness in it's accusation that we want to keep it to ourselves. Did you think first to ask us how many new people we have introduced to the sport? how many we take out with us every year that otherwise would not get a chance to hunt snow geese? We all do it and we all like doing it. Sharing such hard won knowledge and skills is even more satisfying than acquiring it. But don't just put up a post saying I want to be a goose hunter, can I come with you. I'm not interested in taking someone out who hasn't already, like 870 for instance, shown the interest and keenness to get some of the necessary gear and get out there first on his own. Those of us with sons have all gotten their boys into the sport--the best part of all I might add.

Hey that' great that you take people out.

Unfortunately, not everyone has a mentor that can help them get into hunting, and shortening one part of the learning curve might give some the leg up they need. And also unfortunately, many posts on this topic have painted anyone that woudl dare use an E-caller as incompetent, going to spoil it for others, take poor shots, spoil it for them by drawing birds away from them and that the only way an E-caller would be used is in a disrespectful manner.



It seems very strange to me that you are one of the most persistent proponents of the "in favour" side of this dispute on this website yet have little or no experience with the sport under discussion, know very little if anything about the facts underlying the issues, and won't be affected by the outcome of the debate.

I'm allowed to have an opinion.... And frankly, the negative attitude regarding novices or anyone using an E-caller that has been expressed by some of the posters doesn't do your arguments any favours....And who knows, maybe I will be affected by the outcome...If the regulations get changed, perhaps I will go try my hand at snow geese hunting in the lower mainland, using my Foxpro.:wink:

And maybe if they prove to be useful, and there is no conservation concern, the use of them might gain greater acceptance and use, and become a benefit. E-callers have certainly helped many in BC get into predator calling since the laws changed....

Malley Whacker
01-06-2009, 05:30 PM
I'm for it my punt is already wired for sound,any one where to get good load outdoor speakers,Branthunter is thats what it take to get you to become a member of the federation. Hope to see you there Bob.

fowl language
01-06-2009, 08:10 PM
bob, just so you know i talked to a number of local longtime snow goose hunters that told me they were in favour of the e caller for various reasons. i dont know who you talked to but ive had some phone calls about this that want to know why all the hub bub.i guess i should perhaps put in a resolution that there be no calling of any sort for the future as this noise will be on par with the noise of an ecaller,with 4 or 5 callers blowing calls ill bet its just as loud as an ecaller. i would like to know if its your opinion or do you have science to back up the comment thar ecaller will make it worse for new hunters,please explain what is wrong with shortening the learning curve by using an e caller,thx dale

pattern master
01-06-2009, 10:43 PM
Marsh Hawk is 100% right! Everyone should get involved with a local gun club. I would like to personally thank you for the effort. There are alot of good people working on issues in the background. The work that they do often goes unnoticed. It is shocking how few hunters actually belong to a local gun club or BCWF.

f350ps
01-07-2009, 09:21 AM
Marsh Hawk is 100% right! Everyone should get involved with a local gun club. I would like to personally thank you for the effort. There are alot of good people working on issues in the background. The work that they do often goes unnoticed. It is shocking how few hunters actually belong to a local gun club or BCWF.
What a suck up Mark!

f350ps
01-07-2009, 09:25 AM
bob, just so you know i talked to a number of local longtime snow goose hunters that told me they were in favour of the e caller for various reasons. i dont know who you talked to but ive had some phone calls about this that want to know why all the hub bub.i guess i should perhaps put in a resolution that there be no calling of any sort for the future as this noise will be on par with the noise of an ecaller,with 4 or 5 callers blowing calls ill bet its just as loud as an ecaller. i would like to know if its your opinion or do you have science to back up the comment thar ecaller will make it worse for new hunters,please explain what is wrong with shortening the learning curve by using an e caller,thx dale
I don't know who you've been talking to either Dale cause I've done the same thing and it's been a resounding NO! without hesitation. K

fowl language
01-08-2009, 11:08 PM
either you havent talked to most of them or your not listing. maybe you could share with every one what the delta waterfowl biologist told you yesterday at lunch about e callers.perhaps they are just trying to apease you.

Gateholio
01-08-2009, 11:50 PM
I'd like to hear what the bio had to say....

f350ps
01-09-2009, 02:59 PM
Actually Dale if ya talk to Dennis you'll find out that we didn't talk a whole lot about them. Although he did say they were effective on the central flyway, which I won't argue. Hunting there is quite different than here,where there's a house close to every field. K

f350ps
01-09-2009, 03:34 PM
I might add, we did talk briefly about new hunter recruitment and such and I would expect he would have the same views as you Dale but truth be told, I could care less what a guy from Winnipeg thinks is good for us. We're comparing apples to oranges, the only thing similiar is Snow Geese and they've got a lot more of them than we do. I hope that you're not taking my comments personal as they are not intended to be. These are just my feelings towards this whole ecaller idea, not you personally. Now, MarshHawk, that's different!:smile:

Malley Whacker
01-09-2009, 04:42 PM
Can't we all just get along this is getting rediculious play nice fellas

Gunner
01-09-2009, 04:51 PM
I wouldn't expect a biologist from Winnipeg to be particularly well versed on the ethics of Fraser marsh snow goose hunting.Also it is my opinion that all the talk of "new hunter recruitment" is a huge red herring.There are a few guys that want them,they could care less about the regulars who hunt there,and they'll say whatever it takes to get them in place.Let the CWS decide and lets get on with life,but don't try and snow me by saying "everyone I talked to wants them"!I've talked to a lot of the regulars who haven't been approached.I guess your opinion means nothing unless you support the "right side of the question" Gunner

f350ps
01-09-2009, 05:04 PM
Can't we all just get along this is getting rediculious play nice fellas
What's the matter, can't ya feel the love!! Now I'm done with this thread, really I am! Let the chips fall where they may. K

branthunter
01-10-2009, 12:29 AM
bob, just so you know i talked to a number of local longtime snow goose hunters that told me they were in favour of the e caller for various reasons. i dont know who you talked to but ive had some phone calls about this that want to know why all the hub bub.i guess i should perhaps put in a resolution that there be no calling of any sort for the future as this noise will be on par with the noise of an ecaller,with 4 or 5 callers blowing calls ill bet its just as loud as an ecaller. i would like to know if its your opinion or do you have science to back up the comment thar ecaller will make it worse for new hunters,please explain what is wrong with shortening the learning curve by using an e caller,thx dale

You took the words out of my mouth Gunner, when you said, "There are a few guys that want them,they could care less about the regulars who hunt there,and they'll say whatever it takes to get them in place" .Do you guys that are pushing this really think you’re fooling anybody with this guff about “shortening the learning curve” and “will bring out new hunters”?

Dale, what is good or bad about hunting, what makes the experience worse or better, is not science. It is how one feels about the experience and the place and the birds. It is the end result of how you fit into all of that. It is what we see around us, the feel of the wind in our face and the mud under our boots, the strain and rythm of push poling across the marsh, the rawness of decoy lines on the hands, the roar of the offshore surf on a stormy day, the rattle of tule and bullrush in the wind, the distant call of geese and the nearer sounds of an incoming juvenile snow goose as it sneaks in from your side or of the whistle of a passing pintail drake. (These latter things we are going to lose, or have significantly degraded, with e-calls blaring across the marsh.) It is all these and a thousand more small elements that come together to determine whether the hunting experience, for newcomer or old timer, is good or bad.

Making the transition from new hunter to experienced hunter isn't science. Science is research with as many variables as possible controlled and accounted for and a meticulous collection and analysis of data. A good hunt can be the coming together of years of experience in the use of the skills one has learned, the knowledge one has gained, and the equipment one has accumulated over many years to shoot 2 birds or 10. Or it can be the first trip into the marsh where no birds are shot and the neophyte goes over his waders in a ditch he didn't see and drops his gun in the mud but realizes, over the course of the day, the things he could have done differently to maybe get him under some birds. What was a good hunt for one won't have been good for another. All kinds of things can spoil a hunt, but there's not much one hunter can do to spoil it for another except by his immediate proximity, by moving around too much, or by making too much noise.The guys who set up too close to an existing set come foremost to mind. When you turn on an e-call the noise will spread across the entire marsh and will be inescapable.


E-calls are not going to shorten the learning curve either, except maybe for some aspects of the calling itself---and actually they will probably add as many things to learn about using that kind of call as they eliminate about using the old kind. They are just going to be an unjustifiable, obnoxious form of noise pollution.

Will an e-call allow a beginner snow goose hunter to shoot more geese ? Maybe sometimes. It is true that the things are effective on the prairies but how effective will a recording of 2000 geese be over 40-50 decoys? I suspect not much. Is that worth polluting the marsh with this noise to find out? No. I’ve only raised this with a couple of the experienced guys around here but we all agreed that calling is one of the lesser skills of the sport and that most snow geese are shot without ever having been called. Calling of any kind is still only going to be effective when you add it to all the other skills and knowledge needed..... what wind to hunt, where to be for any given wind, what tide to hunt, where to be for any given tide, the role of interaction between wind and tide, what times are best, how all these change as the season progresses, how to hide, where to set up in relation to your decoys, how to set decoys, what the birds were doing yesterday, how to travel in the marsh, how to deal with sudden storms, whether to call, how to call, when to call, when to sit up for the shot, etc. It takes a long time to absorb and you will never be able to truncate this process. No snow goose hunting course will turn out accomplished and successful snow goose hunters who can routinely bag out. Neither will using an e-call.

Will the availability of e-calls by itself bring new hunters into the marsh? I doubt that too. And how do you encourage new hunters to get into the sport by adding $5-700.00 to the cost of an already expensive pursuit? In any case I would think what we want in the marsh are people who are attracted to it by what it is, not by playing with an electronic call.

Our marshes are a special gift we’ve got here, that should be treasured, respected, and preserved. It amazes and disillusions me that there are people who care so little about the marsh that they would be in favour of something like this. The only possible valid support, in my view, for using e-calls and putting up with their noise pollution is if the biologists convince us that they have been shown to have the capacity to bring about a significant population reduction that will result in the elimination of the overpopulation problem and in fact are an essential part of the solution. The article I cited from the Journal of Wildlife Management concluded that although e-calls had the effect of increasing the harvest, that increase would not be sufficient to bring about the desired elimination of the overpopulation problem.

I’m done with any more of this here. I guess all I can say in the end is that I’ll never use them here nor will I ever hunt with anyone who does.

Dirty
01-10-2009, 12:34 AM
You guys are still talking about this? :razz:

Farmer John
01-10-2009, 12:49 AM
I think you just wrote the perfect post bob...couldn't agree more. but i don't think this Ecaller thing will pan out to be as big of a deal as everyone else is making it out to be. Sure, some people will go out and buy them, but i still think the young guys who we are all trying so hard to get into hunting will not want to spend that kind of money on an Ecaller after buying all the other essential gear a newbie must buy to get into the game. And some land owners may get pissed at the noise pollution from the callers and tell people that Ecallers are not allowed on their property. Who knows...

crazy ducker
01-10-2009, 11:20 AM
how many snow geese can one person use in one year anyway. the people who are for this, it seems to be a numbers game anyway not the hole marsh, field, or even hunting experience. they just want bragging rights shot 50 snows in 2 hours with the e caller. if they want to lower the snow goose population why don't you get them to pass it at the convention to allow the use of bait or live decoys like they used 50 years ago. I think that no new hunters will be encouraged to take up snow goose hunting first. snow geese are on westham island which is private ( you need a pass to hunt there) or west of 41b street all of which private property. so you need a boat or punt if motor. even if you have this stuff 3-5 dozen decoys 500-800 dollars. and now a 500-700 ecaller. I think this proposal is motavatited buy a hand full of people, and not the numbers dale is talking about

HuntNHookSports
01-10-2009, 12:08 PM
50 birds. Bait. Live decoys. Where can I sign up?

Noise pollution? I would rather listen to canned calls than some sky busting jerks with party horns.

If it was up to me the limit for Canadas would be 10 and ecallers allowed.

The numbers game is what waterfowling is all about. If I can't shoot my limit in a couple of hours than I should have scouted more.

duckkiller
01-10-2009, 12:59 PM
If the sound of the caller is so concerning, while your at it why don't you guys debate the personal choice of the guy who uses a 3.5" or 3" shell which has a louder report than a 2.75!

f350ps
01-10-2009, 01:08 PM
That's the best post I've read Bob, well said!!! K

Gunner
01-10-2009, 01:14 PM
50 birds. Bait. Live decoys. Where can I sign up?

Noise pollution? I would rather listen to canned calls than some sky busting jerks with party horns.

If it was up to me the limit for Canadas would be 10 and ecallers allowed.

The numbers game is what waterfowling is all about. If I can't shoot my limit in a couple of hours than I should have scouted more.I'm done with this topic too,unfortunately I've just found out that after 45 years of waterfowling I've been approaching it the wrong way."The numbers game is what waterfowling is all about".Really?I think you just defined what kind of hunter you are with one sentence.You or anyone who thinks like you would most certainly not want to hunt birds with me or people who think like me.We think there's a little more to it than that.Have fun shooting your limits,I guess it's a bad day if you don't tub out eh!:mrgreen: Gunner

HuntNHookSports
01-10-2009, 01:37 PM
"or think like me"... my way of hunting is right and anything else is wrong?

Gunner
01-10-2009, 01:50 PM
"or think like me"... my way of hunting is right and anything else is wrong?Not wrong(I don't recall saying that!),just different....I shoot enough birds to keep me happy! Gunner

870
01-12-2009, 12:37 AM
well said bob.

f350ps
07-03-2010, 04:29 PM
I hate to drag this back again but I was just on The Refuge and there's a thread about this same topic. What shocked me was the fact that the good ole boys don't like ecallers either. Who'd a thought! K

crazy ducker
07-03-2010, 07:53 PM
oh f350ps I thought It was going to be a quiet summer. thanks It must be slow at work. thanks again you can of worms opener. go fishing or something

870
07-03-2010, 11:39 PM
why the hell do they sell goose e callers at whole sale sports here and in nanimo? figure that one out?

longshot
07-03-2010, 11:49 PM
Aren't E-callers illegal in BC anyways? I'm gonna dig that up, never really followed this thread.

Longshot Jr.

longshot
07-03-2010, 11:51 PM
why the hell do they sell goose e callers at whole sale sports here and in nanimo? figure that one out?

Ever been to the one in Nanaimo?? Its a joke. Some real expensive things that are at Crapola Tire for like 1/2 the price. Customer service ain't so great either. Oh ya, I even saw Speckle-bellie calls there!!

Longshot Jr.

dutchie
07-04-2010, 01:39 AM
why the hell do they sell goose e callers at whole sale sports here and in nanimo? figure that one out?

While... funny you ask, as I asked the same thing.

The reason behind it is that the accosiates are sapose to tell you that they are illegal and the purpose is for learning how to make the sound that a Goose,duck, deer, moose, elk etc make. so they are being sold as a learning tool rather then a actual call for wildlife. This is what UFA has told us and we have to have them on the shelfs:confused:

I personally do not think that they should be sold in BC period, because they are illegal. It is like selling tracer ammo in a run range.

I am not going to get into my personal beliefs if they should be legal or not.

Dutchie

f350ps
07-04-2010, 01:57 AM
Sorry Crazy but I thought it was pretty funny that the US boys were so opposed to it.Can't imagine why??? K

Pioneerman
07-04-2010, 02:14 AM
Just because something is not legal to use in BC does not mean it should not be able to be bought here and taken where ever you plan to use them where they are legal. You can't hunt with a handgun and not legal to pack around with you, but still sold in BC, but you must use them for their legal purpose in a legal area. It would be pretty tough for people who hunt in other provinces and states to get the things they need after their plane lands at their destination don't you think?

Crazy_Farmer
07-04-2010, 07:41 AM
It's no different then mojos being sold in Washington where it's illegal to hunt with electronic motorized devices. It has to do with a regional thing. If the stores didn't stock them well they could lose a couple hundred bucks off a Canadian or someone from a different state who travels there to go shopping at say a big cabelas.

Mr. Dean
07-04-2010, 12:10 PM
I'd try hunting snows IF e-calls WERE allowed. Probably wouldn't bother otherwise because I'd NEED someone to show me the learning cuve of traditional calls..... If I could use the e-call, I'd get a jump start on how too honk a horn AND I'd still be able to hunt MY style, which is usually solo....

IMO, conservation should be based on bag limits, not limited hunting opprotunity.