Eaglesnester wants to jump in on migaritory waterfoul

[eaglesnester]

Would like to start hunting migratory water foul. I am thinking of purchasing a Browning 12ga BPS in a 28 or 30 inch barrel in a 3.5" chamber. What do the duck hunters out there like in a shotgun as far as barrel length, chamber length, and auto or pump?

[Farmer John]

You're opening up a whole can of worms here...IMHO...3.5 inch shells do knock down alot of birds..I have a 870 that launches them...i find it hard to shoot more than a dosen or so of those shells in a day makes me feel hungover. I'm not buying another 3.5 inch gun. And you really don't need that much umph for ducks...get a quality 3 inch gun such as the BPS or the 870.

[dutchie]

well there is a big differance between the 2 guns... Personally i would not buy a shot gun unless it shot 3.5"... I HAVE NO PROBLEMS SHOOTING 3.5" ALL DAY LONG.

The BPS is a not a side ejection but it is a bottom eject which is great if you have long arms. I couldn't handle it properly because the shells would not eject because they would get caught on my hands... I do not have a large wing span.

Is it the price point that you like with the BPS? Go to a gun shot and touch and feel the different guns. then make your decission. Browning makes the nicest pump action out of any gun - bar none but the guns do not fit me... well the bottom eject ones. I would get a gun that chambers 3.5" because it is a few bucks more... literally... maybe 20 bucks more... and you will never have a problem with shooting snows flying overhead or you will not kick yourself because you need a 3.5" and can't shoot it ect ect ect...

I persoanlly dislike the 870 because i do not like the way it feels, or shoots. Some people love it I just an not one of them. I love benelli and Berretta...

I would look at the Benelli Nova and if you can strech it the Supernova!

dutchie

[sparkes3]

just because you have the chamber for 3.5 dont mean you have to use 3.5.but having it and not needing it ,is better then needing it and not having it.i can use 3.5's all day as well but my father in law absolutely hates them.ok im ready for my beating now. my 835 ulti mag loves 3.5's.

[porcupine]

I shoot a Browning Gold 12 ga, 3.5" chamber gas operated semi- auto with 26" barrels with the marsh grass camo pattern and I like it a lot.
________
box vaporizers (http://boxvaporizers.com)

[Farmer John]

To each his own with regards to whether or not a 3.5 is necessary. I'm not a big guy and kind of shudder at shooting the big shells. Out of my Rem. Super Mag, those shells kick noticeably harder than my 300 win mag and a 45-70 I've shot. But if you can handle the kick, have at 'er...they do kill birds further out than other shells, but duck hunting should be about getting the birds into reasonable range...say 40 yards or so. At that distance, 3 inch shells work just dandy. I've never shot Benelli or Berretta so I have no opinion on either but i have shot an 870 for about 12 years and i hunt ALOT. Ducks and Geese in the Fall/Winter and in summer, my gun runs through around 2,500 shells keeping the starlings off my blueberries. And it shoots just fine, comes up nice and works well wet and muddy or dry and full of dust. IMO The AK-47 of Shotguns

[Jimbo]

Regarding barrel length ...go to a gun shop and swing a model of each length and try to get a feel for the balance of each one. I have a 30" barrel I don't use anymore because it feels fore end heavy and seems to take a split second longer to get on target.That might be ok for you if you think you will do a lot of pass shooting. I prefer my 28" barrel cause I feel as though the weight is centered better between my hands. It swings well for me, and I like it for decoy and pass shooting.

[branthunter]

I have been shooting a BPS for ~30 yrs. and it's been a fine reliable gun (well actually, they have been fine, reliable guns----I somehow ended up with 3 of them). I prefer the weight of it over the 870, which I find too light. You do have to tear it down completely after each season though for a thorough cleaning or it will seize up on you. If you do get one and need a lesson in how to tear it down let me know 'cause it can be a bit tricky but once you know how to do it it's a pretty simple mechanism . As for shells I use Federal 2 1/4" 3s with 1 1/8 oz. for both ducks and snows. The kick is fairly minimal in a BPS because of the gun's weight and it flattens them at any distance I care to shoot at . With these I'll kill a limit of either any day the birds are flying. These shells are a LOT cheaper too. Like someone said waterfowling is at it's best when it's about getting the birds within range. Besides, I've got a bit of a bum shoulder and shooting 3" hurts too much (never even tried 31/2" and don't intend to).

[PGK]

well there is a big differance between the 2 guns... Personally i would not buy a shot gun unless it shot 3.5"... I HAVE NO PROBLEMS SHOOTING 3.5" ALL DAY LONG.
dutchie

This guy is tuff, don't piss him off.

I shoot 2 3/4'' #3 at ducks. They're not that big, shooting 3.5'' at ducks is like a shooting a 338RUM at a WT doe. It might sound cool, but its mega overkill, and just costs more. The price difference between 2 3/4'' and 3.5'' shells can be staggering, for little to no operational difference. For geese I up to 3'' just because I want a bigger payload. Unless you're pass shooting or skybusting, you don't need 3.5'' shells. If you're shooting at unwary birds over dekes, 2 3/4'' #2 is all you'll ever need.

[Marc]

For those of you who think the 3 1/2 inch shells kick hard you may want to consider a limbsaver recoil pad. Mine came with one from the factory and I honestly don't feel any difference from the 3 inch #3's I've reloaded to the 3 1/2 inch ones I bought. The only difference between the two is that the 3 1/2 are carrying another 1/4 oz of shot still doing 1550 fps.

As for cost of shells it depends where you buy them. I picked up a box of the 3 1/2 BB 1 3/8 oz steel doing 1550fps for $17.99 a box of 25. Hard to find a box of 2 3/4 for that price.

Lets talk numbers. Lets say a 2 3/4 oz BB with 1 1/8 oz of shot doing 1475 fps and 3 in with 1 1/4 oz doing 1475 fps I'll quote these number because I can reload them to these speed. Lets compare it to a 3 1/2 inch shell with 1 3/8 doing 1550 fps.

2 3/4 shell with 1 1/8 oz of BB = 79 pellets
3 in shell with 1 1/4 oz of BB = 87 pellets
3 1/2 shell with 1 3/8 oz of BB = 97 pellets

So that's an extra 18 BB pellets in your pattern then the 2 3/4 shells, and 10 more BB pellets then then 3 inch shell.

So lets say for argument sake that the 3 inch shell would be more suitable for geese then the 2 3/4 inch shell because it can send 10 more BB pellets down range. They're both doing the same speed but the 3 inch holds 10 more BB pellets giving it a denser pattern.

So for argument sake wouldn't that make the 3 1/2 with 19 BB pellets more then the 2 3/4 in, and 10 BB pellets more then the 3 inch be more suitable? Plus don't forget that the 3 1/2 inch bores are designed to handle greater pressures increasing the speed and payloads unobtainable from the 3 inch or smaller. So not only does it put more same size pellets on target but it gets them there faster. Speed = Energy.

It's like shooting a rifle, shoot what you're comfortable shooting, but why limit yourself when and ultra mag will shoot them all if you so choose to. In the end it's up to the individual to what he chooses to use. Make your own decisions on what you've researched and not based from comments made from a few that's never hunted with or owned one.

For shooting ducks I use my 3 inch reloads in #3 in my ultimag and it works like a hot dam. When the geese come in I change up to the 3 1/2 inchers and it does the trick.

[HuntNHookSports]

3 1/2" shells = autoloader. Trying to shoot them with anything else is a trip to the chiropractor. I prefer to shoot my o/u but my autoloader kicks amazingly less using 3 1/2" 1650 fps than my o/u using 3" 1550 fps.

I have good goose decoys, layout blind, experienced dogs, and access to world class property...that is why I shoot 3 1/2" shells at geese.

Marc laid it out black and white.

[Duck Buster]

I'm with branthunter, I have a BPS and have been shooting it for over 15 years. I love it. At the time I checked out all the guns available from the Winchesters, Ithica's, Remmingtons, and even Berettas. I found the Browning with a 28" barrel to be the best fitting, best feeling gun out there. They will all kill birds, it all boils down to which gun you feel the best bring to your shoulder. I only shoot 3" shells now, but as long as you pattern your gun with a bunch of different loads, shot sizes, and chokes, and spend the time on the trap range, you can head to the feild with confidance and have no problem taking birds of any size out to 50 yards. In my experiance shots beyond that range, which is the very very far end of my limit, are unnessary there will always be more birds that will come in closer. Just move your set up to find the right spot and leave the 3.5" shells in the store.

[f350ps]

I'm also with Branthunter on this one. Your best bet is go to Reliable or whatever gun shop you like and see what turns your crank. What one guy likes may not fit you or feel right in your hands. I've never had a use for 3.5" plus I like the fact that I just paid $96 per case for the shells I like. If ya know some guys that will let ya try their guns better yet. Can't go wrong with the BPS or the 870. Have fun and good luck! K

[HuntNHookSports]

there will always be more birds that will come in closer. Just move your set up to find the right spot and leave the 3.5" shells in the store.

3 1/2" shells do not give more range but a better pattern. I shoot to kill.

[branthunter]

"$17.99 a box of 25. Hard to find a box of 2 3/4 for that price."

Try Stillwater Sports in Ladner----under $12/box by the case--

[Duck Buster]

I agree that the 3.5" don't give more range but most guys that use them think that they do, which results in 50+ yard shots that produce alot of crippled birds, and in the case of geese these birds generally just fly away hurt only to die a slow death somewhere else. My point is that you need to be well practiced and proficient with whatever gun and load you choose and build your setup so that the birds are as close as you can bring them in and then make clean kills.

[Marc]

I pretty much limit myself to 40 yard shooting over decoys. With the set up I use you don't need to be taking longer shots. Most times I wait until they move away a bit so I don't blow them up at 10 yards. :mrgreen:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Marshall_and_I_side_on_.jpg

I still like the 3 inch #3's for ducks at 1550 fps. This makes an awesome teal round with a good dense pattern using a modified choke to hit the little suckers. Teal are probably one of the most challenging and fun species of ducks to hunt as far as trying to hit them on the wing. I managed a few over decoys this fall and never destroyed one of them. This load is still strong enough to anchor a big drake mallard skirting the decoys at 40 yards as well.

The majority of the ducks I shot this fall so far were dead by the time they hit the water. I lost one bird this fall and it was more my fault then the dog for not connecting or marking the bird properly in the grass. I'd sooner see a duck with a few more pellet holes in it then a cripple that gets away. I’m not saying in any way that shooting heavier loads is a substitute to practice either. The trap and skeet range besides actually shooting live birds is the best way to get used to how your shotgun feels and handles before you take it to the field.

That being said what size shot do we normally use for skeet or trap? # 7 1/2 lead. Why? Have you ever tried shooting skeet with #2 steel shot? Hard to break them isn’t it. The reason we use #7 ½ lead shot is for a denser pattern making it easier to hit the target. I also find a lot of newer hunters who have shot skeet for several years are attempting longer shots then they should on ducks because they are used to breaking clay pigeons beyond what they should be trying to kill a live bird at with steel shot.

Yes 2 ¾ steel shells will kill ducks and geese. It's personal preference to use larger payloads and I do so for denser patterns and ultimately a higher pellet count. If you look at what was used when lead shot was being used it doesn’t seen that strange to be using 3 ½ inch shells.

For example a 3 inch lead shot #2 1 7/8 oz loads is equal to the capacity of 1 3/8 of steel shot. So for geese, with steel shot being less dense, I like to bump the shot size a few notches and speed it up.

So we're comparing to 170 lead # 2 pellets in a lead 3 inch shell to 97 steel BB pellets in a 3 1/2 inch shell. Does that sound excessive? Remember a #2 lead shot has roughly the same energy as BB steel shot for comparison. That's 73 pellets less then what we were used to using for shooting geese before the lead ban came into effect. Now let’s look at the 2 3/4 shell. 1 3/8 lead shot #2, 125 pellets. So were still looking at 28 pellets less than a 2 ¾ standard lead goose shell. Doesn’t seem so excessive when you look at it that way does it?

Do I see a need to be using 3 ½ for ducks? Personally I wouldn’t choose to but that’s not up to me to decide for others.

The ultimag also has a larger bore then a standard 2 3/4 or 3 inch chamber giving a more uniform and less constricted patter comming out of the barrel resembling more what you would see when using lead shot.

All that a 3 1/2 ultimag is doing is getting the pellet count and energy closer to what we were used to when we used lead shot. There are probably a lot of hunters out there who never hunted during the time that lead shot was legal so they wouldn't quite understand the comparison.

Ultimately it comes down to the user, what he likes or doesn't likes. In my personal experience just from hunting the past few months, using the new gun, I'm seing a lot less cripples for the dog to chase and that's reason enough for me to use the heavier loads.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Nov_11_ducks.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/todays_catch_16Nov_08.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/19_October_ducks.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/opening_day_.JPG


For those of you who are counting not all of these birds were mine. Marshall has a habit of retrieving birds, or stealing them from other boats who are hunting with me.:mrgreen:

All the birds in these pictures where taken with 3 inch shells. Not to many mangled birds and all were within 40 yards of the guns. Actually I think the couple that do look rough were more to do with Marshall trying to pull them out of Beaners mouth then shot.:biggrin:

[Crazy_Farmer]

Thats a great looking barrows g/e in that picture, Marc. Looks like a pretty mature bull. And a pinny to boot. Me and Matt are getting sick of all these field mallards, we need some "other" drakes soon. Next weekend we'll hopefully get under some hunting in a different spot.