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todbartell
10-09-2008, 11:57 PM
What is a flat top?


Here is just some of the 11 deer(flattops) we saw that afternoon.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/5_deer.JPG

Odocoileus hemionus - often referred to as a 'mule deer'. Males have antlers, known as "bucks", the females have no antlers, and are known as "does" or more commonly "flat tops" by guys from Newfoundland.

Why? Flat tops are made up of a tissue on their bones that is called "jerky"

Where? Region 5-02D

Who? Two of the most premier members of the intraweb team together, for the most epic hunting adventure to unfold since the Chadwick ram hit the dirt 150 years ago

How? grab a beer, even if it is 7am when you read this, and scroll down 8)

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:20 AM
Now some of you may say, Flat top hunting? that is boring. And, I would probably agree, the amount of skill/adventure required to take a mule deer doe in the Caribou region is about nil. Drive down the road, spot flat top, get out, slam your clip into the 300 magnum, and get the knife, go home, and mow the lawn

I dont own a 300 magnum, nor could I borrow one for my flat top hunt. I do however own a nice little rifle that is chambered in a cartridge that most would call marginal for coyotes. I would never suggest the use of a marginal cartridge for big game, but what makes a cartridge marginal, or "powerful" for that matter? Is it the amount of powder it burns? the speed of the bullet? the weight of the bullet? the diameter of the bullet? so many questions that have many different answers, depends on who you ask.

I have always been fascinated with bullet performance. Testing this, testing that - it fuels my curiosity and desire to gain experience and knowledge first hand. I've concluded over the years that just about everything kills stuff real well, providing the bullet is placed correctly. I've also realized that a bullet has to be capable of providing enough expansion and penetration to work, because if the bullet fails even when delivered into a good spot, it will still give undesirable results.

The rifle is a CZ 527 American chambered in the 221 Fireball. Basically a shortened version of the 222/223 that was originally designed for bolt action single shot pistols in the early 1960s. It's claim to fame was it gave, at the time, the highest muzzle velocity for a pistol cartridge ever. In a rifle, it's faster yet, but still lags behind a 223 by 400 fps, and a 22-250 beats it by about 700. Neither of those cartridges are commonly used on deer sized game, they are varmint guns.

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005298_4729.jpg

A guy would be silly taking this rifle into the woods for deer. A very light bullet traveling at high speed is a bad combination for reliable performance.

A bullet company in Utah changed this in 2008. They designed a bullet that wasn't like your ordinary 22 caliber bullet. Barnes Bullets made a 45 grain Triple Shock X bullet, a 100% copper hollow point bullet designed to retain 99% of its original weight on impact. Hmmmm - this interested me.

I looked at the box of the bullets on the shelf at the local gun store for months. Curiosity got the best of me and I purchased a box. Here is a picture of one next to what is commonly accepted as a minimum deer bullet, a 100 grain bullet used in a 243 Winchester

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v352/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005387_5597.jpg

Does that inspire confidence in you?

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:30 AM
I loaded a few rounds to test fire for accuracy. 15 grains of powder (for you non-reloaders, in comparison a 300 Magnum burns between 65-75 grains) behind the 45 grain TSX proved plenty accurate enough with zero load tweaking. My initial groups ran around 1" for 3 shots at 100 yards from a makeshift rest over the hood of the truck. Velocity approx 3200 fps @ muzzle.

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v352/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005388_5802.jpg


After many evenings of discussion about Flat tops & Fireballs, with a premier memeber of the intraweb, it was agreed that further testing was required before the Fireball could be pressed into service as a Flat Top KILLA

As the hunt grew closer, and time ran out - the testing would have to be done at no better place than - deer camp. As always when going on a trip from home, I bring a second rifle as backup in case something goes wrong with my main gun. This time, the 2nd gun was brought along for the extra firepower. A 260 Remington was chosen, a solid deer cartridge chambered in a very accurate rifle. Perfect for flat tops you'd think, which you're correct. But how much fun would that be? :D

Let the hunt begin....

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:40 AM
I left home at noon for the 3 hour drive to deer camp. My son left his home later that afternoon, traveling about 8 hours to camp. Five day hunt for Flat tops. no joke

First order of business was to set up camp. A good friend showed up half an hour later, who has good experience with the area we'd be hunting, and we spent the afternoon cruising the area. A few flat tops were spotted, but the Fireball was not with me. My 260 didn't even leave the gun case, I was in no rush to take the flat top on the first evening from the road. I knew it'd be alot more satisfying if the hunt folded out with my son, who was still on his way into camp.

With a good idea of where to start looking the next morning, it got dark and we headed back to camp to meet my son at 10pm. Although my son and I are close, we decided to sleep in seperate tents for our own safety.

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005299_5059.jpg

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:42 AM
My son arrived and we got settled into camp. We hadn't seen each other in almost half a year, and celebrated into the early morning.

Opening morning of the hunt found us glassing an area for flat tops.

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005300_5336.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005301_5611.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005302_6008.jpg


With a few flat tops spotted, but no shooters - we headed back to camp for some breakfast & Fireball ballistic testing

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:52 AM
How would a 45 grain bullet stack up against a variety of proven hunting cartridges? With such a light bullet - the worry is penetration. We decided to fire some bullets into the ends of pine firewood blocks at a range of 70 yards to compare results.

First up was the 221/45 TSX with 6" of penetration

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1881030_1601.jpg

Then it was a 260 Remington/125 grain Nosler Partition @ 2900 fps with 10"
http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1881031_1954.jpg

Then it was the 300 Whizzum loaded with 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips @ 3500 fps with 6"
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1881250_3558.jpg

same as 45 TSX...hmmm

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:55 AM
next up, a reduced load in a 300WSM that produces the same ballistics as the classic deer cartridge - 30-30 Winchester

the load features a 150 grain Sierra flat point @ 2000 fps - penetration = 7"
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882266_6449.jpg

Our last cartridge to test was the Barnes 130 gr Tipped Triple Shock X bullet in the 300 WSM. This is the hunting load in my son's rifle. @ 3500 fps at the muzzle, it ripped through the 13" block and exited
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882281_3803.jpg

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:03 AM
Recovered bullets :

L-R : 125 gr Nosler BT 300wsm, 125 gr Nosler Partition 260 Rem, 150 gr Sierra flat nose 300wsm reduced, 45 gr Triple Shock X 221 Fireball

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882735_5238.jpg

L-R in a different order just to screw you up : 45 TSX, 150 FP, 125 Partition, 125 Ballistic Tip

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882741_6709.jpg

My son and I agreed it was obvious that the 45 grain Triple Shock penetrated sufficiently in our test to press it into duty on a flat top. If it will virtually penetrate the same as the all time classic deer cartridge, the 30-30 Winchester, then it should work. We agreed that shot distance was to be held to a close to moderate distance, and that shot angle had to be broadside or quartering away. We were hopefully going to prove that bullet placement, combined with superior bullet construction, were the two most important factors in killing.

We headed out that afternoon, covered alot of ground, seen nothing. The weather turned foul towards dark, and no flat tops were found.

The next morning found us checking out a new road, when we should of been back in an area we knew held flat tops. We realized this soon after day break and turned around and headed for the spot. We stalked into our spot to glass, when my son was overcome with stomach pains. I left him and continued on to glass from a nice vantage point. I spotted a lone flat top about a kilometer from us, but it slipped into the timber. We agreed to come back after lunch and stake out the area where the flat top was.

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:10 AM
We returned by 5pm, hiked in and glassed. Within minutes, 3 flat tops were spotted feeding their way into the cut block. The wind was bad, but we had to make an attempt at a stalk. We got within 300 yards when they reappeared on a hillside of the cut. They were feeding, unaware of us. We were able to crouch down and creep up, using the grassy bank of the trail as cover. At 185 yards, the wind gusted about 6 different directions at once and it began to pound rain. The does milled around nervously and began to trot off. I had one broadside for 3 minutes at 222 yards but I would not take the shot. Too much room for error with a tiny bullet in high winds at that range to insure surgical shot placement. They eventually headed for the protection of the timber and we slugged our way through the road grease for 2km back to the truck...but we both agreed that the stalk was exciting, and that we didnt think hunting flat tops could get a guys heart going that good! :D Flat top or no flat top, at this point the hunt was a success, sharing quality time in the woods with my son.

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:19 AM
A huge storm hit overnight, with high winds. The rain stopped by midnight but we awoke at daylight to +9 and high winds - not ideal hunting weather. As we headed out, we discussed how we'd be the laughing stock of the intraweb if we returned from our hunt with no flat top. :lol:

The morning found us hiking into the same spot. We took Dana's advice and hunted one area until we knew it well, and persistence would hopefully pay off.

A coyote ran in front of us at 200 yards. This was the perfect opportunity to test the Fireball TSX on a live animal. The coyote gave me a brief chance before turning and taking off out of sight. Oh well. Two minutes later, as we continue down the trail, we stop to glass for flat tops. I scan around, and notice Wile-coyote standing there, watching us again from the bank of the road. 231 yards ranged him, sat down and got a good rest, and touched off a shot at a frontal facing angle.

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882743_3611.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882813_510.jpg

The coyote went stiff legged and skidded down the bank. This excited my son! he now has the material for a new fur thong

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882973_9640.jpg

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:23 AM
We continued hunting the area, with no deer sightings. A few shortcuts that turned into dead ends, and a couple more rain showers later and we were back at the truck. The weather seemed to be improving though, and we spent the midday looking for a grouse.

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005303_6291.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005304_6575.jpg

We had discovered a 2nd direction to be able to access the area we'd been hunting, which would allow us to sneak in with the wind in our face. That was our game plan that evening, and we put on our "game face" 8)

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:33 AM
We parked the truck and walked in the kilometer to the spot we'd been seeing the flat tops. Wind was at our back most of the time...so much for that plan. Jesus was not on our side it seemed.

We moved along slowly, stopping often to glass ahead. All of a sudden my son whispers - "there!" I grab my binocs and begin to scan the horizon. he whispers again - "NO, right THERE!" ............. 100 yards in front of us was the flat top. Time stood still as I crouched there awstruck, it seemed like a dream that finally a flat top was within range. I steadied my rifle in my shooting stix, as she turned broadside.

It takes about 16 ounces of pressure to set off the single set trigger on my CZ. The crosshairs buried themselves behind her shoulder about half way up and I dont even recall beginning the squeeze when she jumped straight up in the air. A 45 grain TSX in the lungs will cause a flat top to do that. She bounded broadside about five times, started to turn away, started to tip and then she was out of sight. I would say within six seconds from the time the bullet left the muzzle, she was totally done. She had been FIREBALLED

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005305_6872.jpg

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:36 AM
It was over. The Flat top hunt was done. The Fireball experiment was complete. So many emotions flow through a hunter when he finally takes his first flat top. I cried

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882993_2757.jpg

and so did my son

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883102_4896.jpg

now we had to quickly field dress her before the grizzlies came

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:43 AM
**Warning - if you do not feel comfortable with graphic photos, do not continue reading this epic thread. Hit the back button, or turn off your computer altogether. For those who may find the terminal performance of a 45 grain 22 caliber X bullet on deer sized game interesting - scroll down**















Entrance :

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883107_6176.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005308_7839.jpg

Middles :

lung goo
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883120_7773.jpg

top of the heart
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883130_5989.jpg

more black lung
http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883175_4549.jpg

Exit :

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005309_8128.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883112_1437.jpg

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:47 AM
We walked back to the truck, drove around because from where she fell we could get the truck fairly close, and we rolled her up in a huge tarp like she was Tony Soprano about to be thrown into the Hudson River. :mrgreen:

Back at camp we strung her up, skinned her, and that night it got down to freezing

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005306_7271.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005307_7554.jpg



We stayed up to 3am that night, once the guns were locked away we got insanely drunk on whiskey

todbartell
10-10-2008, 01:50 AM
I hope you found this half as entertaining & informative as me & Gatehouse did. A great hunt that I just had to share with you all.

tb

boonerbuck
10-10-2008, 02:12 AM
Is that a fawn?;-)

tracker
10-10-2008, 05:32 AM
Is that a fawn?;-)


OMG realy ,a bambi killer :shock:

The Dawg
10-10-2008, 05:37 AM
Awesome story...except for the fur thong part....lol

Fisher-Dude
10-10-2008, 05:54 AM
Thank you Toddler for sharing an exciting story about you and your young son. We need more youngsters hunting I always say. Did you have enough food to keep a kid that size from whining about being hungry all the time? Who did the cooking?

And, thanks so much for the plethora of pictures. I'll be putting them to good use in my smart-assed replies to serious topics.

hunter1947
10-10-2008, 06:28 AM
Very good wright up and very good photos on how that caliber bullet did its job.

zigman
10-10-2008, 06:55 AM
Very entertaining.

timberhunter
10-10-2008, 07:02 AM
Probably the best thread in 6 months on this site.

Well done, informative, and entertaining.
Your son looks somewhat challenged?. Its good to see you spending quality time with him;)

Just another example of the RIGHT BULLET IN THE RIGHT PLACE, AT A REASONABLE DISTANCE.

Again well done Mark.

ianwuzhere
10-10-2008, 07:11 AM
Is that a fawn?;-)
looks like a fawn here too...-someones got wayy too much time on their hands!

stanway
10-10-2008, 07:23 AM
Nice job! Great story and photos.

I am now inspired for my own flat top hunt this weekend - except it is after the white tail variety of flat top. I won't be using the exciting fireball, just my boring old .308win.

Cheers!


James

Kechika
10-10-2008, 07:33 AM
Wow....exciteing,thrilling and riviting.Not since Dana's Mass and Trash have i read such a exciting story

pupper
10-10-2008, 08:05 AM
great story and info Todd, as for your son Im sorry to say this but he looks like a neanderthal, are you sure hes yours :)

Jimbo
10-10-2008, 08:13 AM
Hilarious ! You have made my day off. On a serious note, have you considered a paternity test for your "son" ??

Steeleco
10-10-2008, 08:16 AM
Quite the tale, you'll have some fine table fare. I hear your boy is some cook, let him have at her!!!

Brambles
10-10-2008, 08:17 AM
Good story, full of descriptive fluff. I had no doubts the little fireball would kill a doe, hell I think with proper shot placement and appropriate distance it will take down larger animals than you'd think, maybe not bangflops but the end result will be a dead animal.

One of your better stories:-P

PGK
10-10-2008, 08:31 AM
I waited 3 days for THIS!?

Mmmmmm bartell jerky

moosinaround
10-10-2008, 08:36 AM
A tale of a man, and his son.......An adventure of a life time! Man Vs. beast. Epic, riveting, kept me on the edge of my seat! Moosin ranks it 4.5 stars out of ?? Hmmmm??? Good story Bartell! Love the pictures! Your son, well you must have started early! Moosin

Dirty
10-10-2008, 08:37 AM
You call that a Doe, that is a fawn. There was experimental bias in your selection of a flat top to shoot. This experiment is a failure. :razz:

H Wally
10-10-2008, 08:54 AM
Hahahah - I thoroughly enjoyed that. A good story.

Mr. Dean
10-10-2008, 08:56 AM
Baby Killer.:razz:

Interesting results on the penatration tests. Who else woulda thought it up....?

BigBanger
10-10-2008, 09:16 AM
Thanks , I started reading it last night with a beer and finished it off when I got up today with a coffie , kinda neat forsure . Congrats on what sounds like a great trip with the young one .

Ehv
10-10-2008, 10:05 AM
Looks a little like Brokeback Ridge, did you & your son snuggle up in one tent when it dropped below freezing???

huntergirl270
10-10-2008, 10:05 AM
Great writeup! Sounds like you had a good time.
Thanks for sharing it with us!!
Sherry

Schmaus
10-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Woohoo I had three beers and a whiskey shot readin that, it will be a good day :)

BCrams
10-10-2008, 10:16 AM
And to think he gives me a hard time shooting calf moose!

huntcoop
10-10-2008, 10:27 AM
How much Whiskey did ya bring?

Stone Sheep Steve
10-10-2008, 10:33 AM
And the legend of TB lives on...............................................: cool:

Tales of "whiskey and penetration" scare me!!:eek:

Well done Toddler!

SSS

Gateholio
10-10-2008, 10:37 AM
How much Whiskey did ya bring?

A bottle of Tangle RIdge and a bottle of Jim Beam were killed in celebration. Other than that we just had a couple of beers.:razz:

The doe was the largest in the group of does and fawns we had seen. It was the best target we could find for the FIREBALL!! :p

All in all a good time, and really hammers home the concept of "the hunt is what you make of it." Most antlerless tags are cut a couple of steps away from the truck (nothing wrong with that) but we decided to really "hunt them" for the fun of it, and it really was fun. :)

Only complaint? Dad hogged the big tent and used a cot, while I had to use the little tent and a thermarest! :)

Casagrande
10-10-2008, 10:38 AM
Looks a little like Brokeback Ridge, did you & your son snuggle up in one tent when it dropped below freezing???
I just threw up on my computer!

srupp
10-10-2008, 10:59 AM
exellent post..enjoyable, hilarious, informnative..and scarey..lol:shock:

Well done...now get that boy of yours a haircut and back into school..:tongue:

cheers

Steven

Gnarly
10-10-2008, 11:04 AM
Nice rifle!

huntcoop
10-10-2008, 11:22 AM
A bottle of Tangle RIdge and a bottle of Jim Beam were killed in celebration........


Well done. We're all proud.

huntcoop
10-10-2008, 12:55 PM
TB, that avatar looks yummy.....your son make those to go with the Whiskey?

brotherjack
10-10-2008, 12:55 PM
Wow - that thing done a LOT more damage than the 180 grain Sierra's I whacked that mule deer with last year did (mind you, I don't think they expanded).

Sweet. :)

todbartell
10-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Is that a fawn?;-)


OMG realy ,a bambi killer :shock:


You call that a Doe, that is a fawn. There was experimental bias in your selection of a flat top to shoot. This experiment is a failure. :razz:

the flat top may appear to be not very large, but keep in mind that I am 6' 200 lbs and Gatehouse is 6' 275 lbs, so sitting beside her may make it appear to be very small. I would guesstimate her live weight to be approx 150 lbs. I have personally shot bucks the same size, Id guess she was 2-3 yrs old. If I wanted to shoot a fawn, the FT adventure would of been done days before

shoot to kill
10-10-2008, 01:18 PM
this by far is the feel good story of the year, well done.

Wildman
10-10-2008, 01:44 PM
My son arrived and we got settled into camp. We hadn't seen each other in almost half a year, and celebrated into the early morning.

Opening morning of the hunt found us glassing an area for flat tops.

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005300_5336.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005301_5611.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v364/163/59/512917991/n512917991_1005302_6008.jpg


With a few flat tops spotted, but no shooters - we headed back to camp for some breakfast & Fireball ballistic testing

your son.....haha!

rocksteady
10-10-2008, 01:49 PM
You know, it does not matter whether he is wearing a balaclava, a pink tutu, has a honking spider bite or is having a bad hair day......Gate is so easy to pick out in a crowd.....

ohno
10-10-2008, 01:50 PM
Great story......

It even has a happy ending:-P

Ride
10-10-2008, 02:08 PM
Families that hunt together stay together. Thats what they say don't they????


Good job guys.

killman
10-10-2008, 05:56 PM
Great read Bartell, I was reading it as you wrote it last night when I got home from Hockey, But had to finish it today. Yet another plug for the Barnes bullet good job. As for your son, well I hear that kind of thing happens alot in Vanderhoof (brothers loving sisters:-P). I think I will take the .204 moose hunting this weekend:redface:

Bushman
10-10-2008, 06:52 PM
Good stuff!
You have a gift, Mr. Bartell. I don't think I'd be too wrong in saying that you could far as an outdoor writer.
Keep up the good work.

browningboy
10-10-2008, 07:58 PM
Wow, thats your son, you must have had on some serious beer goggles at the end of the night at the club when you met your son's mom, she must have been part grizzly and buckwheat between her legs!

All kidding aside, looks like a good time, congrats.

kevan
10-10-2008, 08:02 PM
this by far is the feel good story of the year, well done.

Agree 100%...Awesome job fellas, you wouldn't believe how good reading that made me feel....now I'm waiting for the sequel !!

.308win
10-10-2008, 08:19 PM
Only complaint? Dad hogged the big tent and used a cot, while I had to use the little tent and a thermarest! :)

Awesome story bartell!!! Well thought out and put together!! Best hunting post in awhile!!.......Also great to see your teaching the boy how to "ROUGH IT"!!!....:razz:

Perry

Bow Walker
10-10-2008, 08:37 PM
:p:lol: ROTF - LMAO !!

Great info couched in serpuflious hyperbola. I commend you for your courage in sharing a wilderness camp with an unknownt species...:eek:

PGK
10-10-2008, 08:41 PM
Only complaint? Dad hogged the big tent and used a cot, while I had to use the little tent and a thermarest! :)

Shouldn't talk about bartell that way. He might get upset again.

mr1022
10-10-2008, 08:47 PM
that camp out by the mcntosh lakes of the moffet lake main?

todbartell
10-10-2008, 11:30 PM
incorrect :)

1899
10-11-2008, 07:32 AM
Great write up. I was wondering about similar loads, but was thinking .222 with 53gr bullets. I guess fools seldom differ. :)

Dragginbait
10-11-2008, 09:25 AM
Awesome deer, that would be an island record :razz: Does the fireball come in a "managed recoil" so your little guy could take a wack at one of them mommas:?: Glad to see you kept the youngen warm and comfortable, so he could spend the whole day with his pop.

You should look into a set of bunk cots, to keep the family bonds even tighter.

You should try and work up a load and take jr. on a tree rat adventure and see if he likes that.






p.s. Have you seen my dog? he is tan in color and about the size of a coyote? and answers to the name target.

todbartell
10-11-2008, 01:27 PM
I love my son so much I shared the tenderloins & backstrap with him...:)

Freshtracks
10-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Well I must say that I'm mildly surprised. Mr. Bartell you've truly proven your point of the love of the sport. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

The article was humorous, yet written with a slick flair. You taken recanting a hunt to a new level for HBC members to think about. Tops the list for stories I've enjoyed reading here. It not what one hunts, but how.

btw - You should have footnoted a ... "hunters, please don't try this at home" warning. This was a controlled test, by highly trained professionals. ;)

Looking forward to more great reads of this nature. How's the waterfowling been?

Gilmore
10-11-2008, 08:18 PM
Good read, ugly kid.

Kody94
10-11-2008, 08:49 PM
Enjoyed this thread thoroughly!! Thanks TB! And congrats on your successful experiment and hunt.

Cheers
4ster

Marc
10-12-2008, 09:52 PM
Good story, did your son have a Flat Top tag as well or just along for the hunt?

todbartell
10-12-2008, 10:10 PM
he brought all the food and booze and drove me around :lol:

Wolfman
10-12-2008, 11:11 PM
Great tale Toddster.

Decent samsquanch pictures too ;-)

Wolfman

rishu_pepper
10-13-2008, 08:13 PM
Lucky I didn't take you up to join you guys killing fawns :cool:

Now tell us what really happened at camp with Gatehouse. :biggrin:

todbartell
10-13-2008, 08:48 PM
Lucky I didn't take you up to join you guys killing fawns :cool:

Now tell us what really happened at camp with Gatehouse. :biggrin:

where is the fawn that died Weesho? :roll: Your flat top identification needs some work, but I will let you off easy this time because you've probably never seen a mule deer in the wild yet. ;) As for what really happened in camp, it's best not to share with the HBC saints :mrgreen:

Little Hawk
10-14-2008, 06:50 AM
Howdy,

Thanks for the great post Todd! As I've said before... Hope my boy hunts with me one day.

Though I'm new to reloading, I learned from the outset the importance of sound bullet construction/performance. Since reading Shelton's "Bear" books and the work he'd done testing this and that kind of bullet, I've long been sold on the solid-copper Barnes.

Cheers,
Terry

Mr. Dean
10-14-2008, 09:13 AM
Now tell us what really happened at camp with Gatehouse. :biggrin:


What goes on in camp,,,, Stays in camp. :shock: :shock:


I'm SURE that this can be found in the synopsis,,,, SOMEWHERE!!!

Gateholio
10-14-2008, 09:27 AM
Now tell us what really happened at camp with Gatehouse. :biggrin:

Nothing as exciting as what would have happened if a small Asian boy named Rishu showed up....:tongue:

rishu_pepper
10-14-2008, 07:25 PM
Nothing as exciting as what would have happened if a small Asian boy named Rishu showed up....:tongue:

Bring me along next time, but only if there are other people besides you two monsters :twisted:

PGK
10-14-2008, 07:51 PM
Bring me along next time, but only if there are other people besides you two monsters :twisted:

Nov 10. It will commence

oldtimer
10-14-2008, 08:02 PM
ROFLMAO !! Great post you guys and sounds like a great time. One favor I would ask is >>> I have a doe draw on 5-13 later in the year, please be really busy elsewhere. I don't think I could take laughing any harder than I did with this post. Good to see a northerner really show a southerner a true hunting adventure. Mike

Gateholio
10-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Bring me along next time, but only if there are other people besides you two monsters :twisted:


We prefer not to have any witnesses....

rishu_pepper
10-14-2008, 08:55 PM
We prefer not to have any witnesses....

I do not wish to be victimized to all sorts of inhumane actions, whatever they may be :lol:

todbartell
10-14-2008, 09:02 PM
you know damn well what they will be.........whiskey bottle and a funnel, and you know where the funnel goes

Kechika
10-14-2008, 09:05 PM
you know damn well what they will be.........whiskey bottle and a funnel, and you know where the funnel goes


hahahahah in the bum..thats funny

KodiakHntr
10-15-2008, 03:24 PM
What the hell Bartell, the pics are all gone before I got a chance to see them.....

todbartell
10-15-2008, 04:07 PM
pics work for me........

KodiakHntr
10-15-2008, 04:20 PM
Don't work for me, or on the other sites either...Only pic that isn't a red X is the first one....

Might be something to do with my firewall I suppose.

CT.45
10-15-2008, 05:24 PM
Booze applied directly to the colon gets one very drunk. Or, so I am told....

rishu_pepper
10-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Definitely alcohol poisoning, since it goes straight into your system. Or so I've heard (on TV).

CooperSscat
10-15-2008, 07:33 PM
Great read!

Did you do a post mortem exam on the yote to score cartridge performance????

Jeremy

DWEL
10-16-2008, 11:02 AM
I read almost every thread on this site trying to learn and for the enjoyment of it all but don't join in much.
Man, you need to become a writer for our sport, this thread was incredibly well written and thought out. TB you da man, and gatehouse you ugly. :razz:
Looking forward to the next thread.
Cheers,
Dave

rishu_pepper
10-16-2008, 11:44 AM
TB you da man, and gatehouse you ugly. :razz:

Truer words were never spoken. :lol:

todbartell
10-16-2008, 12:54 PM
Gatehouse can add two more names to his CRUSH LIST

The Dawg
10-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Gatehouse can add two more names to his CRUSH LIST


So Tod, does that bring up his total crushes to 2 then? ;)

Edward Teach
10-16-2008, 01:23 PM
It was over. The Flat top hunt was done. The Fireball experiment was complete. So many emotions flow through a hunter when he finally takes his first flat top. I cried

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1882993_2757.jpg

and so did my son

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v356/111/96/526315515/n526315515_1883102_4896.jpg

now we had to quickly field dress her before the grizzlies came

Wow! Could it possible be? A picture of the Bartell?
Great! Now I know what to watch out for...

todbartell
10-19-2008, 11:25 PM
I chrony'd the load today and it did 3280 fps average for 3 shots. :smile:

Kudu
11-25-2009, 09:50 AM
Great write and good read, well done Tod.

That Fireball sure did the job on the flat top.

Doe
11-25-2009, 10:05 AM
lol add this link to the 'best threads ever'

cant stop laffin...omg

tuffteddyb
11-25-2009, 11:11 AM
what a awesome thread!!
cant stop laughin!
tho it does prove that a great properlly placed and a moderate range does work great!
tho i will still use my 7wsm.
thanks bartell and gatehouse

longhairmtnman
11-25-2009, 09:52 PM
Informative, yet disturbing.
The mental image of you holding your son while he cried.... is a good reason why you shouldn't marry your first cousin.

What's next?

A sequel?

Son of Fireball!!

Thanks for the good read.

280 Timber Crasher
11-26-2009, 03:13 PM
the guy with the orange bellacalva looks like mankind from WWE all he needed was Mr.sock on this hand. lol

dukester
11-26-2009, 08:07 PM
Awesome story...except for the fur thong part....lol
X2 i can't get that possible image out of my noodle.. excellent story and testing indeed.

1899
09-12-2011, 03:30 PM
TB - this is such an epic post that I have to read it on an annual basis. One of the best hunting stories ever posted! Bravo!

todbartell
09-12-2011, 06:39 PM
it was alot of fun. Now I got some 55gr TTSX to launch @ 3200 fps...........moose rifle? :mrgreen:

1899
09-13-2011, 03:33 PM
it was alot of fun. Now I got some 55gr TTSX to launch @ 3200 fps...........moose rifle? :mrgreen:

Accurate Powders lists some 62K psi loads in the .223 that are pretty impressive - +3100 fps with a 70gr TSX and +3300fps with a 62gr TSX out of a 24" barrel - both with AA2520 iirc.

Anyways, try to live up to the expectations with the next story!

pitbell
09-13-2011, 04:21 PM
One of my all time favorite threads.

604Stalker
07-04-2016, 01:03 PM
Awsome story. Can you fix up the pictures? I feel like Im missing out bigtime.

todbartell
07-05-2016, 11:50 AM
links are all dead but I'll see if I can find some pics to add

last light
07-05-2016, 10:49 PM
Cool story. Thanks for sharing it and whoever bumped it back up. Please do re-post pics, would love to see them. Getting pumped for the upcoming season for sure.

Rob
09-25-2016, 10:00 AM
Are you going to throw up the pics?

todbartell
09-25-2016, 10:54 AM
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215624482991_3172776_n.jpg?oh=8e44d0bc4e41b8 3a159905b27e1fa132&oe=58847488

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215624757991_62624_n.jpg?oh=fe6cd686b09a296f 234669e8fead6545&oe=585FB768

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215624762991_549081_n.jpg?oh=0084a6bb6b87517 eead9e9d2ecc2b620&oe=58839884

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215624767991_220371_n.jpg?oh=fdc865de8253ef5 c44cc1485e7c5bb09&oe=5865D267

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215624772991_1516831_n.jpg?oh=ca7549c8a2daee bf5384654030aad1cc&oe=5874F724

todbartell
09-25-2016, 10:55 AM
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215624777991_7213199_n.jpg?oh=9a87edd4e69115 898b4148ea88ee3bbc&oe=586B2021

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18672_215629072991_6820642_n.jpg?oh=6d55e9656a6b17 96ba980b8777ac126a&oe=58795502

todbartell
09-25-2016, 10:57 AM
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11017117_10152780137877992_849485560935542135_n.jp g?oh=4c14602089ce5f56f5b067484b1f0054&oe=585FC1E2

221 fireball case, 45gr TSX, 243" 100gr Nosler

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10665804_10152780122887992_6786592595134650649_n.j pg?oh=2defa600f42580e27a42d0a8b3cc6935&oe=586B4575

last light
09-25-2016, 11:21 AM
Thanks for posting pics. Very nice deer. Looks very tasty!

Bear Chaser
09-25-2016, 02:46 PM
Thanks for posting pics back up.
I was beginning to think you were ashamed and embarrassed by your son.

todbartell
09-26-2016, 09:25 AM
picture links seem to be dead a few months after I post them on lots of threads. Oh well. I have more pics on my computer somewhere. And I *am* embarrassed by my oldest son

1899
09-26-2016, 10:15 AM
Good old times.