Legal Ram

[dutchie]

There are many many sheep hunters here, and i see some people are taking thier sheep at 350 yds, 300 yds, I think that the longest range i have seen on this forum is approx 420 yds.

HOW ON GODS GREEN EARTH can you count the anular rings at these distances? Because if i am not mistaken, it can be a full curl and still not be legal. Is this true?

Also how do you count the rings on a ram or a billy?

I have no experiance hunting as of yet but sheep/goat hunting is somthing that interests me very much and i am trying to absorb as much knowlege from you as I can.

Thanks!
Dutchie

[islandstalker]

a good spotting scope i assume.

[jml11]

Full curl rams are for sure legal regardless of their age (some regulations variation by region and species of course i.e. LEH 3/4 curl draws, any ram draws, spences mature ram GOS, etc.) and is the only the only way any new sheep hunter should try to assess a ram. Don't try and count rings, look through a couple of the recent sheep threads and you will see why. Having said that, if you have a good spotting scope and the experience you can count annuli at 300 and 400 hundred yards. My only ram was taken @ over 400 yards and I was able to tell he was full curl and at least 8 from that distance using a spotting scope.

I don't think anyone tries to count rings on goats, they are very tight together and often blocked by hair. I shot an 11 year old billy a couple of years ago and the rings are about 1/8'' apart, even a good spotting scope probably couldn't see those. There is no horn size requirement on goats that make them legal/illegal anyways. Just do your best to harvest a billy though!

My recommendation is to look threw as many sheep threads as you can to get an idea of what a mature legal ram looks like and go from there. My opinion is you should be able to make a pretty quick call if a ram is worth a closer second look based on mass and length of the horn alone. If you have to spend hours trying to determine if the sheep is legal....do yourself a favor and look for another ram because you are probably playing with fire which is a risky game.

[BCRiverBoater]

Great optics mean everything. Then experience to count properly. New hunters should never count rings. Go for full curl only.

Most aging of rams are done and decent distances with great optics. Counting is usually down after a ram is deemed good enough for a closer look. Stalk and set up is complete and then aged and trigger pulled.

[Fisher-Dude]

Go to www.wildsheepsociety.org (http://www.wildsheepsociety.org) and check out their "horn curl education program". It's an eye opener!

[CoqTrophys]

you ARE mistaken

[bruin]

Swarovski!!!!!!!!

[Big Bucks]

Swarovski for sure !!!

[Jelvis]

--Thanks dutchie cuz it's a good question for newbie sheep hunter's in the East Koots.
Jel

[BCRiverBoater]

Remember...a full curl ram is always legal if a full curl.

Full curl by no means it is a mature or respectable ram.

[budismyhorse]

this is why sheep hunting takes alot of time. Staring at rams for the right opportunity or "look" can take awhile. Bighorns are the toughest by far to judge legality from a distance.

make sure you are on the same elevation and cut the distance as much as you dare......then get a 60x scope......of quality.

[bridger]

the last two rams i have taken were dall's one at a ranged 475 yds one at a ranged 533 yds. impossible to get closer.at that range i wasn't shooting on age that is for sure although i am experienced enought to tell an old ram i don't thnk i have ever shot on age. the best advice to new sheep hunters do not shoot on age even if you have an outfitter the responsibility is still yours.

[bruin]

http://www.smartreloader.com/images/ATS_65(ANCHE%20hd).jpg

[6616]

Because if i am not mistaken, it can be a full curl and still not be legal. Is this true?

you are mistaken

[riflebuilder]

As everyone has posted go by curl regulation. It doesn't hurt too count rings as well to make sure you are shooting a mature ram. A ram can make full curl at 5yrs if he has a tight curl with lamb tips. You can also tell by the fact that the bases are light and the wieght is not carried up the horn. An old legal ram if full curl will carry the weight with a good ram having first quarter circumfrences close to the base measurments.

[Fisher-Dude]

http://www.smartreloader.com/images/ATS_65(ANCHE%20hd).jpg

OR

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/Fisher-Dude/Hpim0191.jpg

[gbear]

dutchie, as others on here have stated, go with the full curl option. You won't make a mistake that way. And yes, good optics is the key and yes you can tell from a long ways away.

A couple years ago I seen the light in what good optics mean. My partner and I were camped in a spot and there was a ram hanging out by himself above camp. We looked him over a number of times over the course of a day and a half. At that time, we had a mid end spotting scope, but good binos. We felt confident with our spotter that the ram was not legal, so we didn't even put a stock on him.

Well, wouldn't you know it, the outfitter rode by us one day. He had a top end spotting scope and said he felt strong that the ram was legal. He hiked up the mountain with his client and about an an hour later shot the ram. He was legal by full curl but was also over 8.

That convinced me right there that I would buy a top end spotter before my next sheep hunt. That stock was an easy one to make and we missed out on that ram because of the quality of our spotter. I did buy a Zeiss before my next hunt. One the plus side, we did pull off a double header during that hunt anyways, but it could have been achieved quicker with a better spotting scope.

[Deaddog]

The horn curl test is a good starting point, the WSS AGM is another good place to see lots of rams, sign up for the scoring/aging clinic that is going to be held this year as well...

[budismyhorse]

This photo was taken at 40X right at 748 yrds, stone sheep
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/IMGP0539_resize.JPG

Same Ram taken through 60X 748 yrdshttp://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/IMGP0542_resize.JPG
Different ram at 45X from the same spot, clearly legal by curl.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/IMGP0545_resize.JPG

Sorry fellas, the quality of the photos drop off when you resize to fit on this website, they look better on my screen...

[dutchie]

I am glad someone revived this thread. I really appriciate the additional info you have given me.

Thanks again

dutchie

[proguide66]

This photo was taken at 40X right at 748 yrds, stone sheep
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/IMGP0539_resize.JPG

Same Ram taken through 60X 748 yrdshttp://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/IMGP0542_resize.JPG
Different ram at 45X from the same spot, clearly legal by curl.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/IMGP0545_resize.JPG

Sorry fellas, the quality of the photos drop off when you resize to fit on this website, they look better on my screen...

Thats pretty cool picture takin!!!.......MORE !..lol

[porcupine]

budismyhorse: Hope you shot that second ram.
________
Honda Life Dunk (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Life_Dunk)

[budismyhorse]

actually, I tried and tried, but could not cut the distance on those rams. We tried to wait them out and hope they come down the mountain to where they had been feeding the previous few days.....but, the more we hung around, the more they figured something was up. By the time we got aggressive, they had moved up and out of an unpassable basin (for humans). He had a big roman nose too, it was a cool old ram. I don't have enough sheep experience to judge score properly, but he was mature, that is for sure.

[boxhitch]

.....but, the more we hung around, the more they figured something was up. By the time we got aggressive, they had moved up and out.....
I hate it when that happens. Have been busted in the past, They seem to find you no matter how hard you are hidden. I think sheep get a look at the objective lense of optics and that is enough to say trouble.
Now i get up and boldly walk away, down and out, and go to plan B before they get too agitated.

[budismyhorse]

amen to that...

though we watched them for 2 days prior to the season from a distance and on opening day after hiking into the basin, we figured "any time now they will come down to feed just like they did for the last 2 days like clockwork."

and they didn't.....

that older ram in the bottom pic would stay higher on the slope and the other rams would start moving down to where we were waiting and look back at the old ram and stay put. He knew something was not cool.

no matter how many times I said under my breathe "come on boys, yeah, thats it, keep coming..."

If I had to do it again, I would boldly walk out and then wait from a distance, then make a move. Too much scent in that basin is what got those sheep moving...even though we never cracked 700 yards.