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OOBuck
04-19-2008, 10:18 AM
Well, after thinking about it for a while and resourcing many sites on the net I purchased some wood for my new long bow last night..

I'm building a laminated or "lam bow" from hickory strips a friend of mine was nice enough to give me a hand to cut last night on his table saw. NOTE, I'm not to wood working friendly, give me steel ok but wood....

I took a piece of rough hickory 1" x 4" x 6' and ripped strips 1 5/8" wide. I'm thinking the finished bow will be about 1 1/2" at the thickest point. I then took the strips and cut 1/4" strips lengthwise getting 2 from each and a nice small 3mm piece as well. I left one of the strips at apx 3/8" by not cutting 2, 1/4" strips off of it, this will give me lots of options.

So here's the plan, I want a reflex /deflex to be about 40-50Lbs max, a nice long bow to drag out to 3D shoots. I'm planning on using the 3/8" strip as the center section or base. I'm going to sand the strip smooth and attempt to taper the limbs evenly with the narrowest point at the tip. I will then lam a sanded strip to the base with possibly a carbon fiber cloth between the two. I'll attempt to post some pictures as I go... Off to borrow my brother-inlaws sander...

Check out the lam strips here...

http://www.actiontrans.net/strip1.jpg
http://www.actiontrans.net/strip2.jpg
http://www.actiontrans.net/strip3.jpg

Bighorn hunter
04-19-2008, 11:28 AM
Can't wait to see some progess pics.Looks like a fun project.

bhh

Grantmac
04-19-2008, 11:58 AM
Read-up a lot on tillering R/D designs, they are appearently very tricky. I just glued-up my first one yesterday from Bamboo and Ipe, I'm hoping for the same weight range and use as you are.
Don't be disappointed if you end-up under weight, it's very common with your first attempts. Remember that weight in the tips is your enemy, it will slow down your arrow and cause handshock. Glue does no work so try to use as few glue-lines as possible, especially at the tips.
Hickory is not very compression strong, so keep the belly at least as wide or wider than the back.
I look forward to seeing your progress. You might want to just use reflex on this first try, it would make the tillering a lot easier and won't significantly alter the performance.
Cheers,
Grant

Sideofabarn
04-19-2008, 12:00 PM
Very cool. Make sure you keep us in the loop with the stages of the build, and include the pics for the other archery geeks out there!

OOBuck
04-19-2008, 08:37 PM
more headway..

I picked up some cherry for the handle today.

I sanded the 3mm lams which are now about 1.5mm thick strips. I sanded the main lamb strip the 3/8" thicker one to a taper on either end. I simply measured from the tips in 24" towards the center of the strip and drew a line down the edge then sanded the tapered.

I hope to get the cherry handle glued up tomorrow and cut it out the following day. I'm planning on laming a hickery strip between to layers of cherry.

Being that this is my first bow I'm also planning on making the limbs a bit thicker than I think necessary so I can always drop the draw weight if necessary by sanding extra off.

Tillering... This might be a issue but I guess theres only one way to find out. I can see the twist or "tiller" in every limb by simply bending it slightly. I hope that once glued that it will be decreased..

I picked up bow wrap or better known as stretch wrap for packaging items I will use this to hold the pieces together while glueing by simply wrapping and stretching it from the center out towards the tip then place the bow in a reflex/deflex jig I'm also building. I also picked up West Systems cold cure epoxy today and hope this stuff is going to be flexable enough for the glue on the limbs.

More pictures to follow soon

OOBuck
04-20-2008, 09:01 PM
Well, change of plans.. The cherry was just so nice I decided to add a couple of cherry lams to the limbs. I cut the cherry on a table saw the same way I did the hickory only slightly thinner. I'll add that I didn't have a piece of cherry that was long enough so I'll have to join the lams with the taper joint in the center prior to glueing the thing together..

So the stack up will be hickory, cherry, hickory, cherry handle, 1.5mm hickory backing.

Here's the photos:

tapered backing


the stack up



taper joint on cherry lam




more to come..

The Hermit
04-20-2008, 09:32 PM
Cool!!! Are you doing this in the shop or at home??

OOBuck
04-20-2008, 09:38 PM
Cool!!! Are you doing this in the shop or at home??

Home,, shops too oily & greasy.. I'll bring in the bits to show you tomorrow..

Bowzone_Mikey
04-21-2008, 06:36 PM
ohhhhhhhhh___-Ahhhhhhhhhhh_____

Nice work so far ... Lookin forward to seeing it in action ...

OOBuck
04-22-2008, 08:33 AM
I made a ton of headway including pictures but my POS new Fuji digital camera seems to have issues with my computer...!!!!! And thats being polite! Let me put it this way,,, If I spent that much time on the bow as I did the camera it would be done...

So I glued the handle to the backing last night, I glued the two cherry lams together at the taper joint to make one long piece... hopefully to save time.

Then I built a reflex/deflex jig.. I built it from a 2x4x8' nice and flat..
A reflex/deflex jig is used when glueing all the lams together to hold the bend in the limbs. I have really nice picture of this jig and even taped a single hickory lam in so you could see how it work, but then again my camera is a POS..

I'm planning on glueing the bow as soon as the cherry lam & handle are dry. I can see why you might need a heat box to dry the epoxy faster, its' like watching paint dry...

I can say one thing the cherry handle & lam look really nice with the epoxy that dripped on them I can wait to see them finished.

I'll try & get some pictures again to night with my old digital camera..

OOBuck
04-22-2008, 09:59 PM
The long awaited photos, took tonight off to get them off the camera...

Ok here's the

Handle glueing to the backing



Reflex/deflex jig




Hickory lam taped to the reflex/deflex jig

Grantmac
04-23-2008, 08:28 AM
Looking good.

You probably want to sandwich a "power-lam" between the belly and the backing to keep the handle from flexing. With a glued-on handle like that if the bow does any flexing through that point the handle will pop off. I know because my latest bow just popped last night, very frustrating.

Cheers,
Grant

OOBuck
04-23-2008, 01:50 PM
Looking good.

You probably want to sandwich a "power-lam" between the belly and the backing to keep the handle from flexing. With a glued-on handle like that if the bow does any flexing through that point the handle will pop off. I know because my latest bow just popped last night, very frustrating.

Cheers,
Grant

what kind of glue Grant???

Grantmac
04-23-2008, 10:39 PM
I'm using Titebond2 which does have slightly less strength then most epoxies, but since I actually got some wood tear-out when the handle popped I'm fairly sure that stronger glue would not have kept it togather. Anything more than a slight bend in the handle is likely to cause it to pop.

If you want something with amazing compression strength to use for the belly, I've got a little bit of Ipe left. You can have a small piece.
Cheers,
Grant

The Hermit
04-23-2008, 10:59 PM
I can't wait to see this thing when you get it done! Be sure to bring it into the shop with the target and some arrows!!! I'll bring my finger tabs and jock strap in case it breaks!! I know a guy that told me he almost lost his manhood when a bow broke on him!


heheheheheh how is your confidence now Scott! LOL

OOBuck
04-23-2008, 11:34 PM
I can't wait to see this thing when you get it done! Be sure to bring it into the shop with the target and some arrows!!! I'll bring my finger tabs and jock strap in case it breaks!! I know a guy that told me he almost lost his manhood when a bow broke on him!


heheheheheh how is your confidence now Scott! LOL


I'll just tell you it shoots great and get you to test fire it. :D:shock: YEEEOWWW!! LOL

Dragginbait
04-24-2008, 07:59 AM
If all else fails: Duct tape !!!

sealevel
04-25-2008, 08:52 AM
I would be supprised if that works . To glue a bow you need a glue that allows some movement like a g2 apoxy . and also wood needs pressure to bond together. you need a mold so you can put a even pressure on the whole length.

OOBuck
04-27-2008, 01:52 PM
I changed my mind again after seeing the Hermits new bow. I used the cheery lam & the hickory 1.5mm hickory over top of it. Its currently gluing in the reflex/deflex jig and 24 hours from now I guess I get to see if the glue holds..

I'll post pictures once glued..

OOBuck
04-28-2008, 07:50 PM
Ok,,, Key note to self buy half decent clamps!!!! The bow is under a great amount of pressure and while gluing. Yesterday I notice one of my crappy clamps slipped about 30 minutes into the work time meaning I had to run to Canadian tire and buy some new good clamps.. What I noticed today is the limb also slipped so apart it came and I re glued it tonight.

fresh pictures:

gluing one side due to crappy clamp


extra picture of gluing, note bow wrap so nothing sticks to anything



and one more



note the crappy red handle clamps that should never be used!! they cannot hold up to the pressure...

The Hermit
04-28-2008, 08:07 PM
This is a great thread! I saw the bow today and it looks pretty cool. Can't wait to see it once thinned , trimmed, and shaved. I think it is going to look awesome when you get it all finished and stained! Nice work Scott!

My guess = 30 - 33 pounds. LOL

Grantmac
04-28-2008, 09:47 PM
Don't put too much pressue on it, it's very easy to starve a joint. Did you rough up the surfaces with a hacksaw blade? Because if the surface is somewhat grooved then you can apply more pressure. I like using inner tube strips best so far.
Cheers,
Grant

OOBuck
04-28-2008, 10:18 PM
Don't put too much pressue on it, it's very easy to starve a joint. Did you rough up the surfaces with a hacksaw blade? Because if the surface is somewhat grooved then you can apply more pressure. I like using inner tube strips best so far.
Cheers,
Grant

Oh it was rough enough just a $hitty clamp let go during the glue process and of the Canadian tire I had to run..

OOBuck
04-29-2008, 09:21 PM
Well...

After a clamp slip & a re-glue,, I'm convinced that the industrial solution cold cure glue is a bucket O ass... The glue didn't hold under the pressure, possibly old stock..

I'm going to start fresh and try G2 epoxy. I also noticed that it would have been a major pain to tiller the bow due to limb twist. I'm going to build a lamb sander attachment for my belt sander to make sure the thickness is consistent.

I'm abandoning the reflex/deflex and I'm going to build a flat version of a lamb bow for starter, good thing is I still have a bunch of lambs that just need sanding..

More to follow when I start on the new version...

OOBuck
05-06-2008, 02:56 PM
Back at it..

I purchased some more cherry last night and was going to just cut the lams but I looked through my new belt sander instruction manual and what do you know!!! The sander comes with what the manufacture like to call a "sanding stop!" Silly them,,, if you leave one of the screws out of the so called sanding stop and only use the top hole & one bolt to hold the thing to the sander you can use it as an adjustable thickness tool.

I would not recommend this to anyone if your not willing to do bodily harm and possibly loss some fingers in the process.. So with the liability claim out of the way.. This work amazingly well and I had a fresh cherry & two hickory lams sanded to the proper thickness in no time.

I build two handles last go round so I shortened one and prepped all the parts this morning and there currently gluing now. I have made some changes including going to G2 glue looks & acts much different than the cold cure whether it works any better time will tell.

I will take pictures as soon as I can get it out of the jig.. :grin::grin::grin:

OOBuck
05-06-2008, 07:07 PM
Im such a kid I couldn't wait to dry this thing... I built a 5 minute
oven..

SM oven



oven in use



not pretty but it works, I'll build a better one if it works out

Dragginbait
05-06-2008, 09:58 PM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_11_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt425YYCA) The craftsmanshit on that oven is outstanding.

Dragginbait
05-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Check back to reply #17.







I told you duct tape would be used somewhere!!!:biggrin:

OOBuck
05-07-2008, 06:44 AM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_11_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt425YYCA) The craftsmanshit on that oven is outstanding.

I knew you'd like that!! Thats why I posted pictures.. I'll tell one thing though it cut the drying time in half.

OOBuck
05-07-2008, 10:31 PM
New glue is the ticket!! G2 epoxy resin

I build a make shift oven out of styrofoam (yes & duck tape DB) and it worked great I most likely could have took the bow out of the jig last night but I waited till this am...

I decided to go with the reflex deflex but take the center section of 2x4 off the jig and just use the handle as the base.

I thought of something else I most likely did wrong last time I attemped this. I mixed smaller batches of glue and mix of glue for each lamb. This can cause an inconsistance mixture so the limbs could seperate due to a lowsy mix. So basically what I'm saying is mix up enough glue to glue the hole freakin thing together at one time. Once I was done gluing I use one clamp to hold the whole MESS together and then wrapped the plastic shrink wrap around the bow starting in the center and working my way out to the tip of the limbs, swap the clamp to the other side and then repeated for the other limb. This morning I cut the plastic off and tonight I sanded the epoxy and plastic left overs off the bow and now have it to a stage where I will now mark out the taper on the limb.

in the jig



more in the jig



fresh off the sander



look at the grains!!!! yowza


...

well its late and I think I have just about pissed off every neighbour with my sander, more to follow

Grantmac
05-07-2008, 10:45 PM
So did you back the cherry with the hickory? That looks like a great glue-up, I may have to bite the bullet and get some of that G2.
Cheers,
Grant

sealevel
05-08-2008, 10:51 AM
It looks like it mite be fairly skookum. I hope it shoots good .

OOBuck
05-09-2008, 07:48 AM
It looks like it mite be fairly skookum. I hope it shoots good .

I will be tapering the limbs out to the tip on a bandsaw as soon as I find one or buy one.. Then I plan on tiller the back of the limbs out to the tip as well.. Right now might be a little hard to pull...

sealevel
05-10-2008, 09:15 AM
00buck i don`t think you should touch the back at all . Taper the sides and front not the back.

OOBuck
05-10-2008, 09:31 PM
I tapered the limbs today with the help of a new belt on my sander. I can't believe the difference in the limb flex once the tapers were sanded into the limbs. I also thinned the limbs and I hope to get some string grooves cut into the tips soon so I can finish tillering.

I will cut a arrow rest into the bow next as well as modifie the handle to fit better.


tapers



side view



close up



...

Grantmac
05-10-2008, 11:05 PM
Looking good. Those tip can get thinner yet, the thinner they end-up the faster the bow will be. Right until the point where it gets unstable. I would recommend making the back narrower that the belly, like a trapazoid. This is especially useful with compression weak wood like hickory.
Cheers,
Grant

OOBuck
05-12-2008, 10:16 PM
Well another 3 hours into the bow.. I managed to get the handle, arrow rest & string grooves in tonight. I will post pictures ASAP. I figure I have about anywhere from 11-15 hours total time into the bow now.

I'm looking into making strings so I can finish tillering & then put the finishing touches on the bow including some form of weather protection like an oil, epoxy or a clearcoat... Everyone seems to have a different opinion..

more to follow soon..

Grantmac
05-13-2008, 08:39 AM
True-oil, hand-rubbed poly, tung-oil, paste wax, bacon grease
They all work, but most recommend the poly in satin as the easiest most water proof solution.
Are you confortable making strings yourself?
http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/features/flemishstring/flemishstring.html
you don't really need the jig either.
Cheers,
Grant

OOBuck
05-13-2008, 08:48 AM
True-oil, hand-rubbed poly, tung-oil, paste wax, bacon grease
They all work, but most recommend the poly in satin as the easiest most water proof solution.
Are you confortable making strings yourself?
http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/features/flemishstring/flemishstring.html
you don't really need the jig either.
Cheers,
Grant

I need to find the stuff for making strings... I guess I might as well give that a go to:cool:

Poly in satin?? where, what how ??? Don't forget I'm a mechanic not a woodworker..

Grantmac
05-13-2008, 07:00 PM
Polyurethane in satin. Just go into Home Hardware and look in the finishing isle for Minwax hand-rubbed polyurethane. You will see it is available in satin or gloss, I recommend the satin. Should get you about 1qt for $20, last you a good long while. Just apply it with a cloth.

The Hermit
05-13-2008, 10:08 PM
Polyurethane in satin. Just go into Home Hardware and look in the finishing isle for Minwax hand-rubbed polyurethane. You will see it is available in satin or gloss, I recommend the satin. Should get you about 1qt for $20, last you a good long while. Just apply it with a cloth.

Will that bring out the natural colors in the wood? With the different woods especially the cherry Scott's bow should look awesome!

Grantmac
05-14-2008, 08:21 PM
Maybe rub on some tung oil on first. I know it really brings out the color of the Ipe I've been using, and it really penetrates to keep dings from showing up.
Cheers,
Grant

OOBuck
05-14-2008, 08:54 PM
looky, looky!! I've been busy..

I carved the handle, arrow rest & string grooves the other night with the aid of a cheapy rasp set that Canadian Tire had on sale. I also found that the small triangle file very handy. I used a chainsaw file that I had lying around.

Then last night I used a (colored) oil which has to dry for five days then I will apply a clear polyurethane coating over top.

here's some fresh pictures...



enjoy...

Dragginbait
05-14-2008, 10:54 PM
Looks good !!! But if you bring that to the next 3-d shoot does that mean you'll be shootin' from the ladies tee:razz:

OOBuck
06-17-2008, 06:58 AM
Well, I'll save anyone time who is thinking of building a bow... Cherry is not a good choise. It seems that once I cut the taper into the limbs I noticed a few small black spots at the glue joints.. These were weak spots in the wood and the bow now rests in a shollow grave... On to the next one..

Grantmac
06-17-2008, 11:22 AM
Cherry has been done, but it's not considered a great bow-wood. Not when you can walk into Westwind in Sidney and get pretty decent Yew boards. Right next to the Yew (on it's right) is aeromatic cedar (which is a juniper) and it works really well for a center lamination.
Try it again with some hickory on the back and some yew on the belly, it'll be a much easier bow to make work.
Cheers,
Grant

horshur
06-18-2008, 11:46 PM
I wouldn't give up yet....you will need to break several to learn.

I was on number 5 before one shot more than a few times before breaking. It is now a few years old and has even survived the string breaking and a dry fire....I have not had great luck with subsequent attempts(3) either. But as baker says..it is all in the design rather than the wood...he made durable bows out of fir and willow.
The bow i talk about it a maple self bow of 55 pounds at 29 draw.