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View Full Version : Lagalities of shooting a bear in self defence ?



Slime green cat
04-09-2008, 07:23 PM
Just wondering what you do if you had to shoot a bear (or any predator) in self defence in the off season and/or without a tag ?
I am assuming you have to report it ....
How do you prove the animal was a threat and you were justified in shooting it ?

Thanks in advance from a huntin newbie :smile:

lip_ripper00
04-09-2008, 07:33 PM
you better have bite marks!:biggrin: I have never had to kill one, but I have had to go waaaaaay out of my way to avoid one.

Bowzone_Mikey
04-09-2008, 07:48 PM
Conversation Came up between a CO in Alberta and Myself one day ....

Boils down to shot placement with regards to proving justification ... shot head on with powder burns on the fur ...thats pretty justified in that CO opinion .... Broadside shot ...probally your gonna get charged ...

You should report it ... gives MOE an idea of whats goin on in the woods

Bowzone_Mikey
04-09-2008, 07:49 PM
I have never shot a bear in self defence ...have shot rifle in self defence to make noise ...... But have shot a couple harrasing cattle

thatskindafunny
04-09-2008, 07:56 PM
I think someone here knows how to post a shovel and a sshhhhhssss. Know of someone who shot a cougar as it was going to pounce and he reported it and was fined.

boxhitch
04-09-2008, 11:55 PM
I am assuming you have to report it ....
I'm really surprised you couldn't find anything in the Regulations about this.

MidnightRun
04-10-2008, 12:37 AM
Nothing wrong with "planting" a knife in the offending bears paw and take plenty of pictures. And remember, stick to your story.

Eichelherr
04-10-2008, 12:42 AM
If in doubt, blast it away, your life is more important than a possible fine.
________
glass pipe (http://glasspipes.net/)

Mr. Dean
04-10-2008, 12:46 AM
It happens... Just report it (law) and tell the truth. If there's nothing to hide, there's nothing to fear. Learn all you can about them (bears) and avoid confrontations. Be aware of your surroundings when hunting.

Gus
04-10-2008, 12:50 AM
If in doubt, blast it away, your life is more important than a possible fine.

Amen!

I have mentioned this on the site somewhere before, but what happens if there is more than one person involved. I totally agree with the shot placement and powder burn idea, as it helps illiminate people killing bears and just claiming self defence, but what if, for example, a bear is comming down on your partner and you fire, putting the bullet not exactly into the front of the bear? Can that be a legitimate issue you think?

GoatGuy
04-10-2008, 01:20 AM
Legalities deal with the interpretation of the law, not the COS.

So, the long and the short of it is if you feel 'threatened' the judge will have to be the one who decides. Conservation officers may charge you but the law will make the final decision. Part of the way society works.

Personally, I wouldn't put it to the test unless I felt like I was really in real danger. Danger and safety vary from person to person.


Part of the way the program works, democracy and all the rest of that wonderful stuff.
:roll:

Deaddog
04-10-2008, 02:40 PM
If you feel you are in danger and have no other options, shoot. Then report it , I have had this type of situation and other than giving a taped statement there were no issues or hassles at all, I was thanked for reporting it, not hassled for it. This was a grizz as well. DD

TDoyle
04-10-2008, 03:46 PM
better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

sparky300winmag
04-10-2008, 07:19 PM
If i felt at all threatened by a bear or cougar i would have no second thoughts about shooting it.Wether i reported it or not ,i would decide after my actions.i'm not sure if i would want to go through the BS to prove myself not-guilty of an infraction and not a POACHER.

Eichelherr
04-10-2008, 07:33 PM
better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6



wow, this is a phrase i absolutely have to remember, so true!
________
weed vaporizers (http://weedvaporizers.info/)

Slime green cat
04-12-2008, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the reply's guys ....
Thats what I figured ... shot placement is probably one of the only ways to prove you were in danger ???
If it ever happend and the circumstances made for a questionable shot that might have me paying a fine and/or accused of poaching, I just wouldn't report it :confused:

This is just a what if question, I doubt I will ever need to shoot a bear .
I have spent alot of time in the bush and had lots of bear encounters and all were peacful .:smile:

Mattimoose
04-13-2008, 09:05 AM
I had a customer with a Remington 742 in .30-06 who shot a polar bear as it chased-down his wife. This was 30 miles north of Moose Factory on the James Bay coast. The MNR determined it had been stalking his children, downwind and had probably assumed the kids were seals. He was not fined. The rifle was filthy and the first round didn't go-off. He racked in a second one as his wife was running through the snow on her hands and knees, into the tent where the kids were when the bear folded behind her.

FlyingHigh
04-13-2008, 10:46 AM
i think the only time i'd shoot a predator in self defence would be if the animal charged. if it acts threatening, i'd shout and yell, and maybe fire a round in the air, or into the ground near it. i'd only go for a kill shot if it charged. some people may say "what about a bear's bluff charge?" a charge is a charge. i can't be expected to know the difference bewteen a bluff and a real charge in a situation like that. charge = kill shot(s). no charge = evasive action.

ibehuntin
04-13-2008, 11:47 AM
This happened to me a couple of years ago while elk hunting. I called in a cougar unintentionaly. When I noticed it, it was only 10 yards from me. As I lifted my gun and told it to f-off it took offence and pounced toward me. Just as its back feet left the ground I drilled it dead center of the chest with 225grns of 338 lead dropping it dead. It happened so fast I did'nt have time to aim and still dont know how i hit it. I left to find my partner who was just down the road and let him check to see if it was dead. Then went down the road and called the CO in Invermere who listened to my story and asked me to take pictures of cat and surrounding and skin cat out. 2 weeks later he met with me to get frozen hide and pics. Another 2 weeks and I received pics back and notification that no charges would be laid as he belived I acted inself defence and had no other choice but to kill the cat. I don't know all the legalities but it didn't seem to hurt being honest.

The Hermit
04-13-2008, 12:37 PM
Okay here is a follow on question. You have legally killed a big game animal and are in the process of field dressing it when a bear shows up with a threatening posture/attitude. It approaches to within twenty yards and clearly means to take the kill even at your personal expense if necessary. You fire a warning round in front of the bear and although it backs off it hangs around and approaches again.

I know guys that have left their moose for the bear's enjoyment, and I've heard of guys killing the bear. What would you do?

Wild one
04-13-2008, 04:19 PM
The bear would live I have already had this happen with a deer.I just walked away and let him have it.

Gateholio
04-13-2008, 04:33 PM
Okay here is a follow on question. You have legally killed a big game animal and are in the process of field dressing it when a bear shows up with a threatening posture/attitude. It approaches to within twenty yards and clearly means to take the kill even at your personal expense if necessary. You fire a warning round in front of the bear and although it backs off it hangs around and approaches again.

I know guys that have left their moose for the bear's enjoyment, and I've heard of guys killing the bear. What would you do?

I'd make sure I had a bear tag in my pocket:wink:

Actually, I think somewhere i the regs there is discussion about this, and you aren't supposed to fight bears over kills, you are supposed to leave it.

That may be for only if a bear has "claimed" it, not if he approaches whiel you are working on it..It's a risky situation, arguing over a dead moose.:biggrin:

Marmo+
04-14-2008, 02:54 PM
Wow, I'm new to hunting and had no idea that the law was open to interpretation. I thought "leave the kill" meant "leave the kill" not "taunt the bear until it leaves and if it doesn't, shoot it". We are in "their" territory, not the other way around.

rollingrock
04-14-2008, 03:17 PM
Shooting a bear from behind can hardly kill it anyways...unless the thing snatches your dog or kid and run away.

TimberPig
04-14-2008, 07:10 PM
Shooting a bear from behind can hardly kill it anyways...unless the thing snatches your dog or kid and run away.

It will if you are shooting a large enough gun with bullets that will hold together to penetrate adequately.

Not that I'd advocate a Texas Heart Shot on one unless necessary, but it will kill the bear when appropriate chamberings and ammo are used.

Fisher-Dude
04-21-2008, 10:38 AM
It's an offence not to report the killing of the bear. So, shoot/shovel/shut up is illegal, and is poaching. IF you feel threatened and decide you must kill the bear, you must report it. My conversations with the COs on this generally centre around the fact that every situation is different, will be judged on its own merits, and really the only one who knows how threatened they were is the shooter. The best CO advice on this subject: Don't shoot the bear in the ass!

Deaddog
04-22-2008, 12:41 AM
Okay here is a follow on question. You have legally killed a big game animal and are in the process of field dressing it when a bear shows up with a threatening posture/attitude. It approaches to within twenty yards and clearly means to take the kill even at your personal expense if necessary. You fire a warning round in front of the bear and although it backs off it hangs around and approaches again.

I know guys that have left their moose for the bear's enjoyment, and I've heard of guys killing the bear. What would you do?

I will not let a bear just have my animal, different story if I have to leave it over night and return to find a bear on it, then it is his (possession is 9/10ths!!) However if I am gutting the animal out it is mine and I intend to keep it. We have had this situation with 3 grizz while elk hunting, three of us , three griz. Was a standoff at 30 yards for 20 seconds or so til they deceided to leave, however a few more steps and......

sbtennex
05-25-2008, 05:19 PM
There apparently are no "legalities" - just "illegalities". You will be charged. Check out the Joe Lucas story (Calgary area). A neighbor of mine shot 2 young grizzlies off the roof of his chicken coop, less than 50 ft from where his kids were sleeping many years ago. It was a nightmare for him...

Caveman
05-25-2008, 07:41 PM
Know of someone who shot a cougar as it was going to pounce and he reported it and was fined.


The exact thing happened to me and I wasn't fined. I even tried to apply to keep the hide but was denied after 14 months of back and forth debate between me and the CO with Victoria as the "Kangaroo Court". The cat was shot at 15ft, on my track, up a trail I was hiking after deer. Without a word of a lie I pulled up on him and looked through the scope and saw nothing but hide. I had the presence of mind to pull to my right until I saw daylight and squeezed. I caught the cat of guard because as I turned on him he turned slightly to my right not knowing quite what to do, but was crouching, with every muscle tensed ready to pounce. What would you do???

bc sportsman
06-11-2008, 10:12 PM
I think a lot depends on what animal you end up shooting in self defence. A reasonable story backed by the some physical evidence about a blackie stalking/attacking you may be more readily be accepted by a CO but you should expect them to do very detailed investigation of a grizz incident.

Shooting a bear that is after your meat...whether in camp or out in the field may not be justified...however, shooting a bear that is a real threat to you while you are in camp or dressing/packing out the meat is legal.

A note to the wise...its not just what you say but how you say it. You need to convey truthful information that supports your honest belief of a real and reasonably imminent threat. Think long a hard about how best to articulate that. Pretty well everyone carries a digital camera these days. Take pixs of where you were, where the animal was, tracks, shell casings etc...anything that corrobrates your view of the events. Even consider pacing out measurements and making notes.

Not reporting an incident ASAP is poaching, no matter how justified or legal the shooting was. Don't be a poacher...report it. Cover yourself by getting a bear tag before you go hunting. Obviously that won't cover grizzlies as you have to get an LEH.

Every CO is different...some will be more experienced and understanding while others will be eager to charge. However, expect no sympathy if you lie or withhold info. If you do get charged, your best defence will be your notes and pix. You only need to create a reasonable doubt.