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Bow Walker
03-10-2008, 05:33 PM
IMHO, Crossbows fall well within the boundaries of what is considered Archery Equipment. In support of that opinion, I present this article written by one of many noted Canadian Outdoors writers - Steve Galea.

This was written and posted on BigGameHunt.net on 01/22/08. Before you post up your own opinion take a couple minutes to read through and digest what Steve has to say.


Crossbows have always been controversial. Nobles have outlawed their ownership; provinces and states have restricted or forbid their use; bowhunting organizations have decried them as unsporting. So what is it about this hunting tool that induces such strong opinions? Why do some bowhunters sneer at the very mention of the word?
I'd suggest that the problem is borne of misinformation. Tales and myths of crossbow performance abound; most perpetuated by people who have never handled a crossbow in field conditions.
I'm a long-time bowhunter; at one time or another I have hunted with a fiberglass longbow, an Osage flat bow that I built, and a compound bow. I love every one of those tools for its unique charm and will continue to shoot and hunt with each. But late last fall, I added a crossbow to the mix. In the time between then and now I've learned what it can and cannot do.
Here are a few myths that need dispelling.


Myth: Crossbows are long-range weapons
Another oft-repeated myth is that crossbows are capable of kills at incredible distances. In a perfect world, that might be true. But out in the field that's highly unlikely.
Sure, a crossbowman who practices and tunes his gear can put on an impressive show of marksmanship at 60, 70, and 80 yards, but, then again, so can a skilled archer. Would either think it right to take those lengthy shots at game? In most cases, the answer is no.
The vast majority of crossbow hunters limit their shots to thirty yards when hunting deer-sized animals. That's because they realize the limitations of their weapon. They know that even the fastest crossbow won't launch a bolt quick enough to justify shooting beyond those ranges. If a deer decides to take a step forward, change its facing, or if it ducks at the sound of the shot, they know that the result could be a missed or wounded animal - something no hunter wants.
Crossbows are noisier than other archery equipment too. This is also a limiting factor since a deer is much more likely to jump the string on a longer crossbow shot than they might on a silenced compound bow.
Like most hunters, crossbow users also understand that the further the shot, the more exaggerated the effects of wind, trajectory, and flaws in shooting form. And, like good bowhunters everywhere, they know that longer hits are more likely to result in lost animals.
Yet, even if they ignored all this, long shots, are often impractical in deer country where overhanging limbs, thickets, and branches often conspire to reduce effective range. In open fields, range estimation, which is just as critical for crossbow hunters, is difficult too. The truth is that crossbows are a short-range hunting tool.


Myth: Practice is not needed
One of the biggest gripes I hear about crossbows is that anyone can use them and be proficient with very little practice. Well, yes, and no. Anyone new to crossbows can master straight twenty-yard shots in fairly short order. But with peep sights, mechanical releases, flat-trajectories, good instruction and properly matched equipment, a new compound bow shooter can do the same.
But the truth is, if you are going to consistently hit your mark with either under field conditions, you need to practice regularly. With a crossbow that means you need to practice until the bow's trajectory, trigger pull, and sight picture become second nature.
This is important because field conditions might require that you shoot from awkward angles, thread arrows through thickets, or shoot game at unknown distances. Each of these things is only achievable if you have the confidence and know-how brought on by solid practice.
Sure, there is a much shallower learning curve than with other archery equipment but, to me, this argument teeters on a very slippery slope. After all, an instinctive longbow hunter might say the same about a compound shooter whose bow is equipped with all the latest accessories. The simple fact is whether you are using a rifle, shotgun, bow, or slingshot, true proficiency is only earned with practice. A crossbow is no different and anyone who thinks otherwise is in for a rude awakening. Good crossbow hunters are just as meticulous and devoted to practice as good bow hunters.


Myth: crossbow hunting is not bow hunting
Of all the prejudices against crossbows, this one is perhaps the most ridiculous. After all, a crossbow shoots an arrow powered by a bow and a string. Moreover, success depends heavily on correct range estimation and knowing the arrow's trajectory. The only difference is the method of aiming.
Even the most stubborn will have to admit that the hunting tactics are virtually identical to those that other bow hunter's use. Wind direction, scouting, stand placement camouflage, patterning the animal, effective range, calling, and broadhead placement are all the same. So is the waiting time after a shot, and the method of blood trailing. In fact, there's not one thing I can think of that differs except for the hunting itself. And, if some shooters resent it for being easier to master, they ought to compare their bows to the basic stick and string of our fore bearers. If you've got sights, compound wheels or cams, glass limbs, stabilizers, plastic-vaned aluminium or carbon arrows, sights of any kind, mechanical release, overdraw, or any of the thousand gadgets placed on a modern bow, maybe you ought to give that argument a break too.


Myth: Crossbows are nothing but guns with strings
Here's another beauty that I hear on occasion. Yes, a crossbow has a trigger, stock, and sight but that's as far as the resemblance goes. In every other way, a crossbow is an archery tool whose history predates the firearm. It launches its bolts by means of a limb and string, and its range, power, and arrow speed are nowhere near even the slowest firearm's. It kills differently too, by causing blood loss rather than shock. And, if any firearm had the looping, short-ranged trajectory of a crossbow, its manufacturer would be embarrassed. Mine, a high-quality, state-of-the-art unit, requires me to aim approximately 20 inches high at 40 yards. Even the fastest crossbows drop at least 10 inches at that range. In short, a crossbow has its own unique characteristics and a performance that is absolutely in keeping with archery equipment.


Myth: Legions of crossbowmen will decimate the deer herd
In my home province of Ontario, crossbows were first allowed in the one-week bow season in the early 1960s. Back then hunters were allowed only one deer tag. Deer were scarcer back then.
Today, Ontario's bow hunters have a 3-month season and are allowed multiple tags in many areas - up to six in a few zones. Our deer herd has never been healthier despite the fact that approximately 55 per cent of Ontario's bowhunter's use crossbows. Studies show that the success rate between bowhunters and crossbowmen vary by approximately one to two percent in jurisdictions where they have been allowed.


Myth: The crossbow is a poacher's weapon
This thought is uttered occasionally when all other arguments fall by the wayside. Fortunately, a little common sense is all that's needed to dispel it.
First, poachers are opportunists. They don't stalk game; they drive back roads looking for it. It's not worth their while to put in the hours that legal hunters enjoy. They want to shoot, collect game, and leave the scene of the crime quickly. A crossbow, or any archery equipment for that matter, is not conducive to this. You can't operate them from out of a truck very easily. Nor do kills happen quickly or at long ranges as they might with a well-placed rifle shot. An arrow-shot game animal needs trailing and a waiting period before that - two things that poachers try to avoid. Long blood trails leave a lot of evidence too. Unfortunately, these pathetic criminals will always roam the landscape - and as long as they do, the rifle will be their weapon of choice.


Conclusion
If you examine the issue objectively, you might conclude, as I have, that crossbow hunting is simply another form of bowhunting. It is no more or less efficient, just different. A crossbow will not make up for poor bowhunting skills; nor will it provide its user with unfair advantage.
Furthermore, in jurisdictions where they are permitted, they provide a new and exciting opportunity for more people to enjoy the thrills that accompany a bow hunt. These are things all hunters should applaud. And that, my friends, is no myth.

Steve Galea is a full-time outdoors writer who lives in central Ontario, Canada. He divides his time afield between hunting big game, chasing ducks, geese, and upland game, and fly fishing the lakes and rivers around his home. An award-winning columnist, his work is featured in several community newspapers as well as leading outdoors magazines.

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 05:46 PM
Damn...This is what I was trying to say all along on the crossbow thread from a couple years ago...

This will hopefully set the record straight...

tomahawk
03-10-2008, 05:50 PM
Well its an issue that will always have 2 sides or more that's for sure.

I used to be very anti Xbow and thought they did not have there place in the archery world. I have been a bow and arrow purist since the 1980's and have always been around and hunted with stick and compound bows and friends who are owners of the same since then.

But as I get older I seem to be softening my position although I do not own one and still have mixed thoughts as to where they belong. If I was asked to vote yes or no I don't honestly know which way I would lean.

There is an argument that can be made that
1) "a xbow having a scope" is not considered in the same class as a bow, 2) less practice time is definitely required with the xbow, I know of a fella that bought his first one and 4 days later stuck a bolt (not an arrow as he suggests) into an animal with deadly accuracy and on I could go but that is enough for now.

Tinney
03-10-2008, 05:52 PM
:lol: What is this, shack nasties week?

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 05:54 PM
1) "a xbow having a scope" is not considered in the same class as a bow, .

Some of the new fibre optics complete with slope compensators are almost more of an adavantage, for those shooting compound than a fixed 4 power with 4 lines scribed on it..

You want to shoot hand made cedar arrows, bare bones Yew Bow, calf gut sting, stone broadheads...Be my guest....
You want to shoot compound bow, carbon fibre arrows, mechanical broadheads, whisker biscuits, do dads and gizmos til you are all rigged up and a competent shooter....Have at it...

You want to hunt with a crossbow, with a 4 power scope ...Go for it.....

IT IS ALL ARCHERY !!!!!!!!!

Bow Walker
03-10-2008, 06:00 PM
You mention magnifying scopes on crossbows Tom-a-Hawk...

...there are four pictures that accompany the article by Steve Galea - oddly enough, not one of those pictures shows a crossbow with a scope on it.

Putting a scope on a crossbow is like putting a 4X magnifying glass in my Spot Hogg Real Deal (which is the sight that I hunt with), it doesn't make the shooter an instant expert marksman, it only clears up (and brings closer) the sight picture. The shooter still has to "make the shot" so to speak.

A miss with a scoped crossbow is just as easy to do as is a miss with a compound, or traditional bow - with or wthout sights on them.

Bow Walker
03-10-2008, 06:03 PM
:lol: What is this, shack nasties week?

???? What's shack nasties? I'm old, remember. It must be one of those new fangled sayings of the "younger generation" :redface:







btw - what's the rent on your sig line? Just in case I had anything important to say that is.....

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 06:09 PM
???? What's shack nasties?


I thought thats what Eddie Shack used to do to Gordie Howe and Boom Boom Geffrion:eek::eek:

tomahawk
03-10-2008, 06:14 PM
Some of the new fibre optics complete with slope compensators are almost more of an adavantage, for those shooting compound than a fixed 4 power with 4 lines scribed on it..

You want to shoot hand made cedar arrows, bare bones Yew Bow, calf gut sting, stone broadheads...Be my guest....
You want to shoot compound bow, carbon fibre arrows, mechanical broadheads, whisker biscuits, do dads and gizmos til you are all rigged up and a competent shooter....Have at it...

You want to hunt with a crossbow, with a 4 power scope ...Go for it.....

IT IS ALL ARCHERY !!!!!!!!!

Aha, so now we have another subject that is contentious in my eyes, where do you draw the line as far as what is acceptable for a bow to be considered a bow for hunting purposes.

With rifles there are restrictions as to what you can and can't hunt with and what is restricted or not. I believe that there may be some compound bow accessories that may be contentious as well. I'm not just pickin on xbows.

Bow Walker
03-10-2008, 06:15 PM
Jeez Rock, you're as old as I am!!

Remember Eddie Bauer playing defense for the "Leaves"??
I saw him in Vanc., giving one of our guys a "ride on the hickory" between the legs. Ouch, said he in a much higher voice - almost saprano-like.

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 06:18 PM
Aha, so now we have another subject that is contentious in my eyes,

In my eyes, I don't care, as long as it shoots an arrow, by way of a string, propelled by limbs, its archery...

I don't really think any restrictions on rifles and shotguns is necessary, except in light of public safety (slugs on some of the Gulf Islands, so you don't accidentally whap a neighbour on another Isle with a .243)

All forms of archery have the same limitations - Distance /trajectory/etc etc...

How would you enforce such tackle...??? Would be an absolute nightmare...

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 06:20 PM
Jeez Rock, you're as old as I am!!

Remember Eddie Bauer playing defense for the "Leaves"??
I saw him in Vanc., giving one of our guys a "ride on the hickory" between the legs. Ouch, said he in a much higher voice - almost saprano-like.


I used to like the Broadstreet Bullies with Bobby Clarke/Leech/Parent/Hammer Shultz....They did not take any crap...and could play hockey too...

OOBuck
03-10-2008, 06:24 PM
"Yes" Crossbows are archery equipment.

Who say otherwise?

tomahawk
03-10-2008, 06:25 PM
You mention magnifying scopes on crossbows Tom-a-Hawk...

...there are four pictures that accompany the article by Steve Galea - oddly enough, not one of those pictures shows a crossbow with a scope on it.

Putting a scope on a crossbow is like putting a 4X magnifying glass in my Spot Hogg Real Deal (which is the sight that I hunt with), it doesn't make the shooter an instant expert marksman, it only clears up (and brings closer) the sight picture. The shooter still has to "make the shot" so to speak.

A miss with a scoped crossbow is just as easy to do as is a miss with a compound, or traditional bow - with or wthout sights on them.

I hear ya, but do you think that a xbow is as difficult to learn technique?, close to the same in practice time to become good? as either a stick or compound would be?
I don't and don't feel that it is in the same class as a bow and thus should probably be in its own class like the black powder rifles? Just throwin out thoughts to ponder.

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 06:34 PM
probably be in its own class like the black powder rifles?.

Sooooo, just to make the muddy water a little muddier....Which Black Powder rifle season are you talking about???

An old flint lock that is not capable of 5" groups at 100 yards or

The new inline muzzle loaders that can group under 2" at 300 yards??

See the similarity....

Bowzone_Mikey
03-10-2008, 06:37 PM
Walker ... I hate it when you suck me in like this .....

It is no secret that I dont like Crossbows and that MY personal opinion is that they are not archery equip and Base my opinion on the fact that you do not have to hold a cross bow at full draw with muscular power like you do with a Compound or stick ..... and.... you can "cock it" and set it down while waiting for the critter to come in so the perceived movement that an animal will see is far less than if you have to draw a "conventional" bow.

I do know of a shop with a 50 yard indoor range that sell crossbows but is not allowed by its insurance company to allow the use of Xbows on its range because of the fact you can set it and forget it


NOW! That all said ... I realize that the Province of BC does reconize a Crossbow as archery tackle and I fully accept that.

Therefore Yes a Crossbow is archery Equipment in the Province of BC

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 06:55 PM
Walker ... I hate it when you suck me in like this .....

It is no secret that I dont like Crossbows and that MY personal opinion is that they are not archery equip and Base my opinion on the fact that you do not have to hold a cross bow at full draw with muscular power like you do with a Compound

NOW! That all said ... I realize that the Province of BC does reconize a Crossbow as archery tackle and I fully accept that.

Therefore Yes a Crossbow is archery Equipment in the Province of BC

Good attitude Bowzone, have your own opinion,but also respect others and not get bent....PS...I shoot an x-bow...Please don't hate me...

tomahawk
03-10-2008, 06:57 PM
Sooooo, just to make the muddy water a little muddier....Which Black Powder rifle season are you talking about???

An old flint lock that is not capable of 5" groups at 100 yards or

The new inline muzzle loaders that can group under 2" at 300 yards??

See the similarity....

I don't mind a good debate but I ain't stickin my head on the bullseye and answerin that one. At least I didnt call you on the xbow when you said it shoots an arrow! I'm like Bowzone, I knew this would stir it up good, but that's the way I feel and like I said sit more on the fence now that I'm an old fart.

rocksteady
03-10-2008, 07:00 PM
I don't mind a good debate but I ain't stickin my head on the bulleye and answerin that one. At least I didnt call you on the xbow when you said it shoots and arrow! I'm like Bowzone, I knew this would stir it up good, but that's the way I feel and like I said sit more on the fence now that I'm an old fart.


I wasn't trying to set you up, i was just trying to draw a similarity to the archery scenario. No matter what you set for regulations of one or another, someone is always going to try to find a mechanical/technical advantage to over come the restriction....

I don't sit on the fence, I just don't care if there even is a fence...

OOBuck
03-10-2008, 07:09 PM
I hear ya, but do you think that a xbow is as difficult to learn technique?, close to the same in practice time to become good? as either a stick or compound would be?
I don't and don't feel that it is in the same class as a bow and thus should probably be in its own class like the black powder rifles? Just throwin out thoughts to ponder.

I have some fuel for your fire,,, I recently purchased a new bow the new space aged short axle to axle looking type. After shooting barebow all my life I relized that I wasn't going to be able to shoot my new bow bare. I added sights and a release and now shoot 3" groups no problem. I can't believe I never shoot sights before!! So, are new compound bows so technically advanced that they should now be considered archery?

tomahawk
03-10-2008, 07:12 PM
I wasn't trying to set you up, i was just trying to draw a similarity to the archery scenario. No matter what you set for regulations of one or another, someone is always going to try to find a mechanical/technical advantage to over come the restriction....

I don't sit on the fence, I just don't care if there even is a fence...

I certainly didn't think that you were trying to set me up, I know where you were coming from and agree in general with that. It was more a comment that I knew I was going to stir some sh$t and ddi it anyways but didn't want to offend anyone and certainly respect that everyone has there say and can do what they choose within the regs.

Tinney
03-10-2008, 07:21 PM
???? What's shack nasties? I'm old, remember. It must be one of those new fangled sayings of the "younger generation" :redface:







btw - what's the rent on your sig line? Just in case I had anything important to say that is.....

Shack nasties = cabin fever. For fifty bucks you can put whatever you want in my sig line :lol: I'm strapped

Wild one
03-10-2008, 08:25 PM
I have owned and shot recurve,compound,and cross bows and I don't see a big diff in preformance between a cross bow and a compound.I think if you really want to seperate archery equipment it should be between sights and no sights.

Bow Walker
03-10-2008, 08:58 PM
Tinney - cash strapped - that's a pertinent sig line if there ever was one.

Tinney
03-10-2008, 09:12 PM
Tinney - cash strapped - that's a pertinent sig line if there ever was one.

Tinney....blows all his money on expensive fishing gear :lol:

Eagle1
03-10-2008, 09:27 PM
I've owned and shot all kinds of bows over my 30+ years of archery.
Why is it that x-bows need 125# { compound } and 150# { conventinal limb }to shoot an arrow, but the regular vertical bows only need 40# within your draw lenght to shoot an arrow.
Cause x-bows only have a short power stroke and need that kind of draw weight to get an arrow to even shoot half decent. A 16-22" bolt sheds energy real quick and is unstable at longer distances than a longer arrow shot out of a vertical bow.
Some x- bows 225#, 350fps, my X- Force 60#, 340fps
Nothing wrong with x - bows. When I can't pull and hold my compound I'll proable shoot a x - bow, so will a lot of you other people just cause you love to BOW hunt.
Some wives,girlfriends can't pull and hold a 40# bow but can shoot a x- bow, you going to tell them they can't BOW hunt cause it's a x - bow.
I can shoot a 6-8 inch group at 90 m but would never ever even consider shooting that far at an animal.
Recurves were around before long bows, maybe they shouldn't be aloud to bow hunt with them.
just my 2c.

sealevel
03-10-2008, 10:46 PM
Everyone is getting along to good .So i will say crossbows are not archery simply cause you can walk around with it cocked . But the prov. say its archery so its archery .

diggerpax
03-10-2008, 11:26 PM
Where I'm from many tags are archery or rifle- it seems we get quite a few guys riding quads scouting for rifle season carrying a crossbow. I don't think it's wrong, and I can see why they enjoy it, but I just wish we had to choose one or the other to decrease the traffic. The statements are very true about a good compound and a crossbow being pretty competitive. We own a crossbow that we let guests plunk does with now and again, and we can teach anyone who's shot a gun to use a crossbow out to about 30 yards in 15-20 minutes. I wouldn't even think of letting someone shoot my Mathews for 20 minutes, then go hunting with it. On another note, if anyone should want their own season, I think it should be those guys shooting stick bows- those of us shooting high speed have a pretty big step up on them in my opinion.

Tinney
03-10-2008, 11:27 PM
Everyone is getting along to good .So i will say crossbows are not archery simply cause you can walk around with it cocked . But the prov. say its archery so its archery .

Most of us are really bored with this debate

diggerpax
03-10-2008, 11:28 PM
and just because I feel it is my obligation...........real men pull real bows.

The Hermit
03-10-2008, 11:40 PM
I'm going to a recurve this year then next year I think maybe I'll get real good a throwing knives! ;-) I heard all x-bow hunters have short bolts!

Isn't it all about being out there and challenging oneself to get good enough with your chosen gear to get in close and ethically take the animal with real confidence? If a hunter can do that only with a gun at 200 yards then okay use a gun, using a x-bow at thirty yards then okay use a x-bow, with a compound at 20 yards okay use one, with a recurve at 15 yards then use a recurve, or with a hand-made stick and string at 10 yards then okay go whittle your gear...

Just don't drive around on your quad with a loaded gun or a cocked cross-bow!!

sealevel
03-11-2008, 06:00 AM
Most of us are really bored with this debate
So if everyone is bored with it why do`s the topic keep coming up. And if you are bored with it quit blabbin about it.

rocksteady
03-11-2008, 07:37 AM
[quote=The Hermit;257679] ;-) I heard all x-bow hunters have short bolts!

quote]

Size (length) doesn't matter:biggrin: and I am always fully-cocked, not half cocked like some...:biggrin::biggrin:

Tinney
03-11-2008, 08:13 AM
So if everyone is bored with it why do`s the topic keep coming up. And if you are bored with it quit blabbin about it.

I'm not blabbing about it. BW is.

rocksteady
03-11-2008, 08:16 AM
I'm not blabbing about it. BW is.


Morning Tinney....Ready for another day of internet debate??? Glad to see you back..

Bow Walker
03-11-2008, 11:54 AM
I used to like the Broadstreet Bullies with Bobby Clarke/Leech/Parent/Hammer Shultz....They did not take any crap...and could play hockey too...
Yep, I remember 'Cement Hands'...more for fighting than for hockey though. Kinda like Gino Odjick suddenly scoring goals!


I hear ya, but do you think that a xbow is as difficult to learn technique?, close to the same in practice time to become good? as either a stick or compound would be?
I don't and don't feel that it is in the same class as a bow and thus should probably be in its own class like the black powder rifles? Just throwin out thoughts to ponder.
IMO - crossbows are an entry level type of archery equipment. They let a lot more people get into the sport of archery (be it hunting, target, or 3D) than any other type of equipment. That, to me, is a good thing.



Walker ... I hate it when you suck me in like this .....

It is no secret that I dont like Crossbows and that MY personal opinion is that they are not archery equip and Base my opinion on the fact that you do not have to hold a cross bow at full draw with muscular power like you do with a Compound or stick ..... and.... you can "cock it" and set it down while waiting for the critter to come in so the perceived movement that an animal will see is far less than if you have to draw a "conventional" bow.

I do know of a shop with a 50 yard indoor range that sell crossbows but is not allowed by its insurance company to allow the use of Xbows on its range because of the fact you can set it and forget it


NOW! That all said ... I realize that the Province of BC does reconize a Crossbow as archery tackle and I fully accept that.

Therefore Yes a Crossbow is archery Equipment in the Province of BC
Mike - I thought specifically about you and your ideas on crossbows when I was typing up this thread. :biggrin:

The ability to "cock and safe" a crossbow is - I'll admit - very "rifle like". But the inability of a crossbow to take game animals at anything approaching the extended range of even a slug throwing shotgun places them firmly in the realm of archery equipment.

Similarily, (in some ways) having a Concho type or a Carter type release on the D-loop of a compound bow does minimize a bit of movement and attention refocussing when the critical moment comes....n'est pas?

Ron.C
03-11-2008, 12:13 PM
The fact that crossbows shoot a bolt, and don't use any sort of powder to propell a projectile, definitely class them as a bow. Yes I think you should be able to hunt with them. You still need to get close to game in order to make a clean kill. Personally, I think the crossbow is no more benefitial or easier to use than a compound with sights and a release.
My problem is people that shoot beyond their personal and equipment limitations, regardless of what they are shooting. Last year, we ran into a guy on our elk hunt who was bragging about hitting an elk in the spine at over 70 yards with a crossbow and expandable broadheads! That is a guy that needs to take a real look at what ethics are. But we also had a young girl in our area who used a crossbow with her guardian present and took an elk. Try telling her that a crossbow isn't considered a bow!

sealevel
03-11-2008, 12:19 PM
bowwalker what about the new stryker xbow at 405 fps with a stock and trigger and a scope . the prov. says its archery so i guess it is. But at a price tag of $1600 plus tax i don`t think to many archers will be packing one.

Bow Walker
03-11-2008, 12:30 PM
bowwalker what about the new stryker xbow at 405 fps with a stock and trigger and a scope . the prov. says its archery so i guess it is. But at a price tag of $1600 plus tax i don`t think to many archers will be packing one.
Still only effective (for hunting) within 50 yds or so. Hopefully the shooter who uses one of these has well practiced ethics - 8)which is another thread topic entirely.

$1600 for hunting equipment is not considered expensive these days. :???: Guns that are scoped with moderately priced scopes can get up there and beyond in pretty short order.

It all depends on the level of 'comittment' by the sportsman/sportswoman.

Monashee
03-11-2008, 01:51 PM
More than a few bowhunters started with recurves or longbows then as you get older the injuries start piling up and eventually they give it up reluctantly. A crossbow is the perfect tool for those who still want to get out in the bush maybe take on a critter with a broadhead.

Bow Walker
03-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Point well taken - crossbows are for either end of the spectrum and, by virtue their very name are archery equipment...

diggerpax
03-11-2008, 05:01 PM
I think they are great for people that are no longer capable of pulling a bow, or are disabled.........as long as being overweight, out of shape, and on a quad is not included as a disability.

Bowzone_Mikey
03-11-2008, 05:25 PM
Paint gun , heat gun, grease gun are all called Guns are they not can you hunt with them?
... A rose by any other name ...still makes me sneeze ....

People are also forgeting its tough to shoot a Bow (upright) off a rest or Bi-pod like a cross bow can ...
Walker ...even when I have my carter hangin off my loop I still gotta grasp it and draw the bow ....Thats why I hunt with a Carter Hunter .. Open jaw I can flip it into my loop without even looking ...

Its archery equip according to the Province .... But try to hold a compound bow at full draw for 10 minutes ...after 2 mins chances are good you'll shake like a dog crappin Razor blades.

sealevel
03-11-2008, 05:35 PM
maybe when graybark gets old he can take up the crossbow .

mikey you can say it way better then i can:smile:

Walksalot
03-11-2008, 09:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_crossbows

greybark
03-12-2008, 09:47 AM
[quote=sealevel;258014]maybe when graybark gets old he can take up the crossbow


:smile: Yep ,,,, WHEN I get old !!!!! And our draw length will finally be the same .. LOL

rocksteady
03-12-2008, 09:54 AM
People are also forgeting its tough to shoot a Bow (upright) off a rest or Bi-pod like a cross bow can ...
.


I tried this once with my Horton, when I was trying to sight in the scope, when I originally installed it.....Worked like a hot darn....Til I took off teh bipod and started shooting freehand, for some reason it was about 4 inches off....I am thinking it was either putting pressure on the rail somehow, or effecting the vibrations and harmonics of it....

Also found similar when tried bench shooting , Can't hold too much pressure, it just sort of needs to be hanging out on its own....A lot different than the rifle...

Bowzone_Mikey
03-12-2008, 04:55 PM
I tried this once with my Horton, when I was trying to sight in the scope, when I originally installed it.....Worked like a hot darn....Til I took off teh bipod and started shooting freehand, for some reason it was about 4 inches off....I am thinking it was either putting pressure on the rail somehow, or effecting the vibrations and harmonics of it....

Also found similar when tried bench shooting , Can't hold too much pressure, it just sort of needs to be hanging out on its own....A lot different than the rifle...

Or you cant shoot freehand all that well .... do you put a bullet into the same hole freehand all the time ?

I have shot a crossbow using a rest ... in fact the I used the safety bar of my ladderstand ...worked great ... Bucky the wonder deer took a bolt right into the X ring

rocksteady
03-12-2008, 05:08 PM
Or you cant shoot freehand all that well ....OUCH !!!!! It does take practice, but as I stated this was when I had just received and put my bow together..

I have shot a crossbow using a rest ... in fact the I used the safety bar of my ladderstand ...worked great ... Bucky the wonder deer took a bolt right into the X ring


Using a rest, without too much pressure on the bow, I am bang on, but with the hard mounted Harris 7-13" it was way off...

I also messed around with a monopod type stick and found that accuracy varied dependant on what part of the fore end that I had it sitting at..

Now I just shoot sitting, with my left elbow on my knee...works awesome...

Bowzone_Mikey
03-12-2008, 05:48 PM
It wasnt ment as a shot ..allthough re-reading it It does come across as one .. I apologize ... But you see my point ... shooting freehand, so much more comes into play ... the way you breathe .. what you ate for breaky ... hell what you dreamed about the nite prior

Put some sort of Vibe dampener on the bi-pod ... you will notice a big diff...in fact Vibe dampeners should be on every add-on accesory mounted to any bow or gun for that matter ... heck my new bow is painted in Vibe dampening material

rocksteady
03-12-2008, 05:56 PM
It wasnt ment as a shot ..allthough re-reading it It does come across as one .. I apologize ...

No need to apologize, I have a thick skin....Wasn't sure if it was a true shot or not....Thats the joy of talking on the net....If I was really hurt I would of PM'ed you and called you bad names...:tongue::tongue:

OOBuck
03-12-2008, 07:53 PM
If it makes you guys feel any better I'll hold my crossbow sideways when I shoot???:lol:

Bow Walker
03-12-2008, 08:38 PM
Whichever way it's sliced it still comes out ARCHERY. There were (and probably still are) legions of archers who decried the use of 'pulleys' and 'wheels' on a bow when the compound made its debut way back when.

Granted the crossbow has been around a lot longer than the compound, but the analogy is still relevant - something new and different is scoffed at by the older diehards. Crossbows are enjoying a resurgence like never before. Their popularity has increased for many different reasons, which need not be gone into in this thread.

When looked at realistically, the crossbow is a compound bow that shoots horizontally rather than vertically. Consider the other similarities...
the trigger release - virtually the same.

the rail guiding the bolt - virtually the same as any arrow rest on any other bow, including fall away rests.

the magnified sights and/or the pin sights with a peep - same as the compounds.

I'm sure that there are more and that I just can't think of them right now.

All in all it adds up to archery equipment...IMHO anyway.

diggerpax
03-12-2008, 10:11 PM
Pope and Young- no crossbows. Need I say more?

rocksteady
03-13-2008, 07:46 AM
IMHO - I don't care about inches for a record, just lbs. for my freezer...Can't eat the antlers anyways....

Bow Walker
03-13-2008, 10:20 AM
Almost all the archers that I know and haved talked with are not too interested in the size of the head gear. That being said, I am positive that all wouldn't pass on a Poop/Yung buck.

Besides - it's well known that stuffy, intolerant, inbred organizations are the slowest to accept change(s). Just look at any government.








Discalimer:...those derogatory remarks are aimed directly at the above mentioned gov't organizations and are not meant to single out P&Y.

tomahawk
03-13-2008, 10:30 AM
Whichever way it's sliced it still comes out ARCHERY. There were (and probably still are) legions of archers who decried the use of 'pulleys' and 'wheels' on a bow when the compound made its debut way back when.

Granted the crossbow has been around a lot longer than the compound, but the analogy is still relevant - something new and different is scoffed at by the older diehards. Crossbows are enjoying a resurgence like never before. Their popularity has increased for many different reasons, which need not be gone into in this thread.

When looked at realistically, the crossbow is a compound bow that shoots horizontally rather than vertically. Consider the other similarities...
the trigger release - virtually the same.

the rail guiding the bolt - virtually the same as any arrow rest on any other bow, including fall away rests.

the magnified sights and/or the pin sights with a peep - same as the compounds.

I'm sure that there are more and that I just can't think of them right now.

All in all it adds up to archery equipment...IMHO anyway.


The term Archery and xbows is used in the Hunting Regs, not everywhere.

The xbow is popular to hunters mainly for one reason! You know what that is!

The xbow is not "realistically" a compound that shoots horizontally, there are many differences, the compound bow that I and many archers shoot does not have a trigger release, it is way different.

There are no magnified sites or scopes on most compounds used to hunt.

All in all it is not archery equipment, it is only classifeid as such for the BC Hunting regs. IMHO.

tomahawk
03-13-2008, 10:32 AM
IMHO - I don't care about inches for a record, just lbs. for my freezer...Can't eat the antlers anyways....


Agree and that's my signature line!

Onesock
03-13-2008, 01:57 PM
Agreed Tomyhawk. X-bows are only considered archery gear by the BC gov'y.

Onesock
03-13-2008, 01:58 PM
And we know how wrong the gov'y can be!!!!!!!

rocksteady
03-13-2008, 01:59 PM
And we know how wrong the gov'y can be!!!!!!!


No way, they are never wrong...:biggrin::biggrin:

sealevel
03-13-2008, 02:19 PM
The government and our moderater together they can`t be wrong. So a crossbow must be archery.:eek:

Gateholio
03-13-2008, 05:14 PM
Elitist's eating thier own......

;-)

pupper
03-13-2008, 05:16 PM
is crossbow archery. IMHO NO.
do I have a problem with them. NO. but its not archery.

Bowzone_Mikey
03-13-2008, 05:57 PM
BC and ontario ... the only provinces that see X bows as archery equip ...

diggerpax
03-13-2008, 08:22 PM
Archers don't care about head gear? Who are you kidding? When I started bowhunting I considered anything to be a trophy if taken with a bow- and that's exactly what I tell all beginners. If a person just wanted to fill the freezer, why not use a gun? It's certainly easier and more affordable. I don't spend months scouting and video taping to just go out and fill a freezer- nore do I walk for miles on end and sit in trees for countless hours just for good meat. If I shot the first animal I saw my season would be over as quickly as it started- where's the fun in that? If there is any bowhunter who would pass on a monster buck standing next to bigger bodied deer with broken off antlers for the sake of more meat, he needs to get a CT of his head because something is not working correctly. It is not all about headgear, but when you start to shake like a leaf and your heart is about to pound out of your chest- well, they don't call it doe fever for a reason- and that's why we're obsessed.

Bow Walker
03-13-2008, 10:14 PM
Alright you guys, here goes...


The term Archery and xbows is used in the Hunting Regs, not everywhere.
The xbow is popular to hunters mainly for one reason! You know what that is!
The xbow is not "realistically" a compound that shoots horizontally, there are many differences, the compound bow that I and many archers shoot does not have a trigger release, it is way different.
There are no magnified sites or scopes on most compounds used to hunt.
All in all it is not archery equipment, it is only classifeid as such for the BC Hunting regs. IMHO.
There may be differences between the Crossbow and the Compound - but they are mostly cosmetic. Take an "open-minded" look at them. I'm pretty sure that the similarities will be more apparent than the differences. Do you shoot your compound finger style, like "Nails" here on HBC, or do you use some style of release?


The government and our moderater together they can`t be wrong. So a crossbow must be archery.
Now you're getting the idea! :wink:


Elitist's eating thier own......;-)
What are the "elitest's eating Clarke? Should I ask the chef to send out some ketchup? Or some more salt? :confused: Am I an elitist? How did I become one (if I am)?


BC and ontario ... the only provinces that see X bows as archery equip ...
Mike - you're opinion is a matter of record across most archery sites that I have frequented in the recent past...well, two at least. While I respect a person's opinion, I can't help but wonder about a little wee tad of "narrow mindedness?". :confused: Is it such a leap to accept crossbows?


Archers don't care about head gear? Who are you kidding? When I started bowhunting I considered anything to be a trophy if taken with a bow- and that's exactly what I tell all beginners. If a person just wanted to fill the freezer, why not use a gun? It's certainly easier and more affordable. I don't spend months scouting and video taping to just go out and fill a freezer- nore do I walk for miles on end and sit in trees for countless hours just for good meat. If I shot the first animal I saw my season would be over as quickly as it started- where's the fun in that? If there is any bowhunter who would pass on a monster buck standing next to bigger bodied deer with broken off antlers for the sake of more meat, he needs to get a CT of his head because something is not working correctly. It is not all about headgear, but when you start to shake like a leaf and your heart is about to pound out of your chest- well, they don't call it doe fever for a reason- and that's why we're obsessed.
Digger, I said that
Almost all the archers that I know and haved talked with are not too interested in the size of the head gear. Of course hunters are after the biggest, the longest, the widest, etc, etc...or ese they woudn't be human. After getting a "first" with archery equipment (be it compound, crossbow, or stick n' string) I think everyone pays attention to "what's on top".

Gateholio
03-13-2008, 10:19 PM
No BW, you are not an elitist...

Walksalot
03-14-2008, 06:23 AM
If proficiency testing was to become mandatory I highly suspect a crossbow would gain favor with a lot of hunters.:wink:

OOBuck
03-14-2008, 06:48 AM
but its not archery.

Ok, so what is it then please explain?

broaden my horizons....

OOBuck
03-14-2008, 06:51 AM
Agreed Tomyhawk. X-bows are only considered archery gear by the BC gov'y.


I consider them archery..:cool:

Onesock
03-14-2008, 06:58 AM
Walksalot- If proficiency testing were to become mandatory we would loose alot of rifle hunters.

GoatGuy
03-14-2008, 08:47 AM
They shoot essentially the same distance as a good compound shooter and far less than a muzzleloader.

Theoretically, with bow only you can let more people go hunting without harvesting as much.


A crossbow accomplishes that while not being nearly as time consuming as a compound or traditional.


The rest is left for the sandbox.

rocksteady
03-14-2008, 08:48 AM
[quote=GoatGuy;259169]


A crossbow accomplishes that while not being nearly as time consuming as a compound or traditional.
/quote]


Not sure I understand the jist of this statement...

GoatGuy
03-14-2008, 08:54 AM
[quote=GoatGuy;259169]


A crossbow accomplishes that while not being nearly as time consuming as a compound or traditional.
/quote]


Not sure I understand the jist of this statement...

don't need to practice as much to become proficient.

rocksteady
03-14-2008, 09:53 AM
[quote=rocksteady;259170]

don't need to practice as much to become proficient.


I have to disagree with you on this one...To become thoroughly proficient in mastering the crossbow, to ensure a clean, humane kill, I practiced as much, if not more, with my crossbow than my compound...The compound had become second nature and I required less practice every year to get back in form, however once i moved to crossbow, I was back at square one...

Another old wives tail for arguments against crossbows...............

Bowzone_Mikey
03-14-2008, 10:09 AM
Mike - you're opinion is a matter of record across most archery sites that I have frequented in the recent past...well, two at least. While I respect a person's opinion, I can't help but wonder about a little wee tad of "narrow mindedness?". :confused: Is it such a leap to accept crossbows?






No narrow mindedness ... i dont consider them archery for reasons stated above ... and the fact that I have worked my ass off the last 7 years since i picked up a bow to hit that 300 mark from 18 meters ..... It took me 2 hours with a crossbow ....

Bigbear
03-14-2008, 10:41 AM
To answer the question asked, In B.C. Crossbows are recognized as legal Archery equipment. That is according to the Hunting regulations.

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 12:19 PM
No narrow mindedness ... i dont consider them archery for reasons stated above ... and the fact that I have worked my ass off the last 7 years since i picked up a bow to hit that 300 mark from 18 meters ..... It took me 2 hours with a crossbow ....


It's not terribly difficult to shoot targets 500 metres away with a bolt action rifleand a properly zeroed scope, but it is much more difficult using an iron sighted black powder rifle.

Is the bolt action not a firearm?:tongue:

Just because it's not as difficult to learn to use well, doesn't change the fact that it is a bow, with a string, and uses a pointy projectile:wink:

sealevel
03-14-2008, 12:53 PM
So we still don`t know weather they are archery or not. good part is there`s been no name calling and no one got banned. Ha Ha


bowwalker should get banned for bringing it up again.:wink:

Onesock
03-14-2008, 01:23 PM
Most of us that know archery know x-bows aren't archery equipment. Those that don't know if they are archery gear are just learning about archery. (Or trying to sell x-bows).

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 01:36 PM
Most of us that know archery know x-bows aren't archery equipment.


Has anyone actually found a definition for archery equipment?

Crossbows have been around for much longer than compounds, yet compounds are accepted as archery equipment.

diggerpax
03-14-2008, 02:18 PM
It's not terribly difficult to shoot targets 500 metres away with a bolt action rifleand a properly zeroed scope, but it is much more difficult using an iron sighted black powder rifle.

Is the bolt action not a firearm?:tongue:

Just because it's not as difficult to learn to use well, doesn't change the fact that it is a bow, with a string, and uses a pointy projectile:wink:

That's a great point- hence the black powder seasons- same category- both rifles- but not equals. Great statement to support why crossbows should not be allowed in archery season.

Onesock
03-14-2008, 02:25 PM
Digger- This is BC. No black powder seasons here. It may interfere with the General Only Season.

rocksteady
03-14-2008, 02:27 PM
That's a great point- hence the black powder seasons- same category- both rifles- but not equals. Great statement to support why crossbows should not be allowed in archery season.

What about the new inline muzzle loaders??? As compared to an old flintlock musket

When you only look at one limitation, accuracy....

What about bows and x-bows having the same type of accuracy and distance limitations???

GoatGuy
03-14-2008, 02:37 PM
I have to disagree with you on this one...To become thoroughly proficient in mastering the crossbow, to ensure a clean, humane kill, I practiced as much, if not more, with my crossbow than my compound...The compound had become second nature and I required less practice every year to get back in form, however once i moved to crossbow, I was back at square one...

Another old wives tail for arguments against crossbows...............


You can't be serious.

It's way easier for any newbie to archery to pickup a crossbow and go hunting than it is any other bow, nevermind the physical limitations of other bows.

I never said I was against crossbows.

rocksteady
03-14-2008, 03:07 PM
You can't be serious.

It's way easier for any newbie to archery to pickup a crossbow and go hunting than it is any other bow, nevermind the physical limitations of other bows.

I never said I was against crossbows.

No , you stated that is way easier to become proficient with a crossbow. I disagree...You may find it easier, but I don't think you can speak for all newbies...

GoatGuy
03-14-2008, 03:14 PM
No , you stated that is way easier to become proficient with a crossbow. I disagree...You may find it easier, but I don't think you can speak for all newbies...


Guess I'm strange then.

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 03:19 PM
That's a great point- hence the black powder seasons- same category- both rifles- but not equals. Great statement to support why crossbows should not be allowed in archery season.

BC doesn't have a ML season. No real point. We have very long GOS seasons, so there is ample opportunity to use a ML.

I didn't knowthis is thread was about why crossbows shouldn't be allowed in bow season?


How does allowing crossbows in bow season negatively impact a bow season?

rocksteady
03-14-2008, 03:40 PM
How does allowing crossbows in bow season negatively impact a bow season?


Too noisy according to some......:roll::roll::roll:

sealevel
03-14-2008, 04:06 PM
this thread is not about weather crossbows belong in bowseason. Its not the crossbow itself that is the problem. Its the guys that buy one 4 days before bow only elk season that started this debate about crossbows . Nobody is going to buy his first compound on his way to the EK for the bow only season. but they will a crossbow.

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 04:15 PM
this thread is not about weather crossbows belong in bowseason. Its not the crossbow itself that is the problem. Its the guys that buy one 4 days before bow only elk season that started this debate about crossbows . Nobody is going to buy his first compound on his way to the EK for the bow only season. but they will a crossbow.


So why point a finger at an inanimate object, when the problem is with people?

Sounds like an anti, telling us that "guns" are problem....;)

Bowzone_Mikey
03-14-2008, 04:23 PM
really ... I thought this this thread was about if Crossbows were archery equip or not ....

Acoording to the BC government they are and are allowed in Bow season ...

But as we all know the BC government is a little out to lunch on most aspects when it comes to "common sense"

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 04:32 PM
really ... I thought this this thread was about if Crossbows were archery equip or not ....

"


I did ask for a definition of "archery equipment" (preferably an unbiased definition)

If somene can find this definition, then perhaps we can make an informed, objective decision.

GoatGuy
03-14-2008, 04:36 PM
I did ask for a definition of "archery equipment" (preferably an unbiased definition)

If somene can find this definition, then perhaps we can make an informed, objective decision.

archery

The art, sport, or skill of shooting with a bow and arrow.

bow

1.a flexible strip of wood or other material, bent by a string stretched between its ends, for shooting arrows

Arrow

1.a slender, straight, generally pointed missile or weapon made to be shot from a bow and equipped with feathers at the end of the shaft near the nock, for controlling flight.


Pretty simple. :lol:

sealevel
03-14-2008, 04:38 PM
You are absulutly right gatehouse. It just easy to blame the crossbow... but really compound and trad shooters have a passion we shoot all year not only to improve but because we enjoy it.... do`s anyone on here have a passion for a crossbow ?? or is it just a means of extending there season...I myself have no prob. with crossbow hunters just spend the time it takes to be a bowhunter.

GoatGuy
03-14-2008, 04:39 PM
You are absulutly right gatehouse. It just easy to blame the crossbow... but really compound and trad shooters have a passion we shoot all year not only to improve but because we enjoy it.... do`s anyone on here have a passion for a crossbow ?? or is it just a means of extending there season...I myself have no prob. with crossbow hunters just spend the time it takes to be a bowhunter.

This is all education.

Easy to do - somebody needs to put some time and effort into it.

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 04:42 PM
You are absulutly right gatehouse. It just easy to blame the crossbow... but really compound and trad shooters have a passion we shoot all year not only to improve but because we enjoy it.... do`s anyone on here have a passion for a crossbow ?? or is it just a means of extending there season...I myself have no prob. with crossbow hunters just spend the time it takes to be a bowhunter.


I am passionate about rifles, and I shoot them all year.

I do it to improve my skill s and because I enjoy it.

There are plenty of hunters that shoot less than a box of ammo a year, and I wish they would take the time to practice more, but I am not actively seeking they be excluded from hunting seasons.

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 04:45 PM
archery

The art, sport, or skill of shooting with a bow and arrow.

bow

1.a flexible strip of wood or other material, bent by a string stretched between its ends, for shooting arrows

Arrow

1.a slender, straight, generally pointed missile or weapon made to be shot from a bow and equipped with feathers at the end of the shaft near the nock, for controlling flight.


Pretty simple. :lol:


I think a crossbow fits into all of those definitions...:wink:

sealevel
03-14-2008, 04:51 PM
Yes there are some trying to get rid of crossbows and they will not change. But most on this forum have nothing really against crossbows.

Bowzone_Mikey
03-14-2008, 04:59 PM
I am passionate about rifles, and I shoot them all year.

I do it to improve my skill s and because I enjoy it.

There are plenty of hunters that shoot less than a box of ammo a year, and I wish they would take the time to practice more, but I am not actively seeking they be excluded from hunting seasons.

and those are the meatheads that injure , or not make humane kills ...whats a humane kill ?...its all perception, and it happens with us elitest archers too ....

this is the best article I have found to define "Archery"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery

The article does mention Crossbows in the archery equipment section ....
If one were scroll down to techniuqe section one could discount the use of Crossbows due to the wording of it explaining only how to shoot an "upright bow"
But really its all semantics at the end of the day isnt it ...

Bow Walker
03-14-2008, 09:39 PM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_18_7.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_219.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA)



Most of us that know archery know x-bows aren't archery equipment. Those that don't know if they are archery gear are just learning about archery. (Or trying to sell x-bows).

diggerpax
03-14-2008, 09:47 PM
BC doesn't have a ML season. No real point. We have very long GOS seasons, so there is ample opportunity to use a ML.

I didn't knowthis is thread was about why crossbows shouldn't be allowed in bow season?


How does allowing crossbows in bow season negatively impact a bow season?


Where I hunt I see a great number of guys riding along on 4 wheelers with a cocked crossbows- we have game cams on our land to catch them- and we do. You can hear the 4 wheeler turn off, then a bugle. They'll wait five minutes, fire up, and take off again. I wouldn't care as much, but they make trails anywhere they want. I'll walk in 4 miles to find some bushwack 4 wheeler trail and guy with a cross bow. This isn't a bash on 4 wheelers because I use them too, and I know some bow hunters do the same, but I see more guys doing this in the areas I hunt packing crossbows. I think the point made earlier is about guys extending their rifle season by packing a crossbow for a while is right on the money. I know people that will buy a crossbow, sight it in, then go hunting the next day. It's not hard at all- infact it is quite simple. I shoot all the time and take my hunting extremely seriously- I don't like to have my day spoiled by some guy half @$$ing it. Sure there are some that shoot crossbows a lot and enjoy shooting- these guys should pick up a bow- they'd love it.

Bow Walker
03-14-2008, 09:48 PM
......But really its all semantics at the end of the day isnt it ...
Glad to see that you're slowly coming around Mike....:wink:

kloosterboer
03-14-2008, 09:54 PM
Ok Imho i think it is its own branch of archery just as stick bows or compounds have there own branch. Yes I agree it probably would be a bit easier to get fairly good. however it is going to take the same time and determination to become one of the top shooters in your branch of the sport no matter what you choose to shoot. And personally i would rather have someone new to the sport that wants to go bow hunting use a xbow if it going to help them make a humane kill rather than go wound an animal and cause it to suffer using a Compuond or stick bow.

Ryan

huntwriter
03-14-2008, 10:16 PM
Well written post Bow Walker. I have written an article last year along these lines. All anti crossbow arguments are myth.

Is a crossbow archery equipment? Absolutely 100%. Is it traditional archery equipment? Absolutely 100%, first mention of a crossbow was made about 800 years ago.

huntwriter
03-14-2008, 10:26 PM
Most of us that know archery know x-bows aren't archery equipment. Those that don't know if they are archery gear are just learning about archery. (Or trying to sell x-bows).

While I respect your opinion I do have to admit that this is one of the most narrow-minded opinions on crossbows I have read in a long time.

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 10:27 PM
Where I hunt I see a great number of guys riding along on 4 wheelers with a cocked crossbows- we have game cams on our land to catch them- and we do. You can hear the 4 wheeler turn off, then a bugle. They'll wait five minutes, fire up, and take off again. I wouldn't care as much, but they make trails anywhere they want. I'll walk in 4 miles to find some bushwack 4 wheeler trail and guy with a cross bow. This isn't a bash on 4 wheelers because I use them too, and I know some bow hunters do the same, but I see more guys doing this in the areas I hunt packing crossbows. I think the point made earlier is about guys extending their rifle season by packing a crossbow for a while is right on the money. I know people that will buy a crossbow, sight it in, then go hunting the next day. It's not hard at all- infact it is quite simple. I shoot all the time and take my hunting extremely seriously- I don't like to have my day spoiled by some guy half @$$ing it. Sure there are some that shoot crossbows a lot and enjoy shooting- these guys should pick up a bow- they'd love it.

Why do you think others should have to hunt the way you do?

That's what this comes down to...You don't approve of how some people hunt, so you don't think they should use a particular weapon, so your day won't be "spoiled" :cry:

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Is a crossbow archery equipment? Absolutely 100%. Is it traditional archery equipment? Absolutely 100%, first mention of a crossbow was made about 800 years ago.


The crossbows history is much longer than 800 years!:D



HISTORY:

Literary and physical evidence suggest that the crossbow originated in China during the 4th century BC, though a type of crossbow called the gastraphetes may have been independently invented in Greece at about the same period. It wasn't until the 10th or 11th centuries AD that the crossbow became a significant military weapon in Europe. It passed from general military service in the 16th century, but its use for hunting and target shooting has continued to the present day. The majority of the following chronology is abridged from GUIDE TO THE CROSSBOW by Paterson:

341 BC

Earliest reliable record of crossbow use at battle of Ma-Ling in China.

228 BC

Earliest crossbow artifact, a bronze lock mechanism from the tomb of Yu Wang.

0-100 AD

Heron of Alexandria describes gastraphetes.

300-700

Roman carvings of crossbows.

385

Vegetius mentions crossbows in DE RE MILITARIA.

1066

Crossbows introduced to England by Normans.

1096

Anna Comnena describes Norman crossbows.

1100-1200

Composite crossbow lath appears.

1139

2nd Lateran Council interdict forbids use of crossbow among Christians.

1192

Crusader victory at Jaffa aided by crossbows.

1314

Earliest reliable record of steel lath.

1346

Genoese crossbowmen defeated at Crecy by English longbowmen.

1373

Earliest illustration of cranequin.

1503

First of many English laws restricting possession and use of crossbows.

1550-1600

Firearms replace crossbows in most Western armies.

1860

Photographic evidence from Chinese shows repeating crossbows still used there as military weapons.

1939-45

"Arrowspeed" crossbow used by Australian commandos in Pacific Theatre.

1945-1975

Crossbows employed by Montagnard peoples and US special forces during Vietnam conflict.

1960?-present

Crossbows used to shoot anesthetic darts for capturing and treating wildlife; also used to obtain tissue samples from marine animals for obtaining genetic information.

Bowzone_Mikey
03-14-2008, 10:45 PM
a crosbow is a bow yes .... is it archery? No ... absolutly not and I have allready stated why ...

all pro crossbow arguements are just as Mythy as anti

Bottom line is we each can poke holes in each others sides and go around in circles for a very ...very long time

I dont beleive they are archery equipment others do ... ... I dont think they should be part of a target archery federation ... if they are classed as archery then so should sling shots ... one would have to be pretty nieve to think that bowstrings dont stretch at draw and release even if is micro millimeters with 8125 material ... Trad style bows rely upon that stretch to make their equipment last ...hence the reason why 8125 is not used as trad strings ...all the rubber on a slingshot is a string that streches considerably more.

you wanna talk traditioanal archery ... lets talk Alatls

........

ROEBUCK
03-14-2008, 10:50 PM
everybody has a differant objective when it comes to hunting for some it means meat in the freezer and a fun time for some its a trophy for others its a dificult stalk theres nothin wrong with any of em as long as its in the hunting rules whats the problem?nothing wrong with crossbows in my mind!

huntwriter
03-14-2008, 10:55 PM
The crossbows history is much longer than 800 years!:D



HISTORY:

Literary and physical evidence suggest that the crossbow originated in China during the 4th century BC, though a type of crossbow called the gastraphetes may have been independently invented in Greece at about the same period. It wasn't until the 10th or 11th centuries AD that the crossbow became a significant military weapon in Europe. It passed from general military service in the 16th century, but its use for hunting and target shooting has continued to the present day. The majority of the following chronology is abridged from GUIDE TO THE CROSSBOW by Paterson:

341 BC

Earliest reliable record of crossbow use at battle of Ma-Ling in China.

228 BC

Earliest crossbow artifact, a bronze lock mechanism from the tomb of Yu Wang.

0-100 AD

Heron of Alexandria describes gastraphetes.

300-700

Roman carvings of crossbows.

385

Vegetius mentions crossbows in DE RE MILITARIA.

1066

Crossbows introduced to England by Normans.

1096

Anna Comnena describes Norman crossbows.

1100-1200

Composite crossbow lath appears.

1139

2nd Lateran Council interdict forbids use of crossbow among Christians.

1192

Crusader victory at Jaffa aided by crossbows.

1314

Earliest reliable record of steel lath.

1346

Genoese crossbowmen defeated at Crecy by English longbowmen.

1373

Earliest illustration of cranequin.

1503

First of many English laws restricting possession and use of crossbows.

1550-1600

Firearms replace crossbows in most Western armies.

1860

Photographic evidence from Chinese shows repeating crossbows still used there as military weapons.

1939-45

"Arrowspeed" crossbow used by Australian commandos in Pacific Theatre.

1945-1975

Crossbows employed by Montagnard peoples and US special forces during Vietnam conflict.

1960?-present

Crossbows used to shoot anesthetic darts for capturing and treating wildlife; also used to obtain tissue samples from marine animals for obtaining genetic information.

Thanks for the history update. :smile:

Bow Walker
03-14-2008, 11:02 PM
Mikey, Mikey, Mikey..........

Atlatls = archery? Now you're smokin' something really weird!.

Atlatls = extended arm triple jointed spear chuckin'.

huntwriter
03-14-2008, 11:07 PM
... if they are classed as archery then so should sling shots ...


That is a bit of a stretch, no pun indented. A slingshot works quite differently from a bow in that it is the “string” which propels the projectile. Traditional, compound and crossbows use limbs to propel the projectile. The only difference being that the string by the crossbow is held back mechanically and it is positioned horizontal rater than vertically.

huntwriter
03-14-2008, 11:16 PM
Sure there are some that shoot crossbows a lot and enjoy shooting- these guys should pick up a bow- they'd love it.

I enjoy bowhunting. in fact given the choice I will chose the bow anytime over the riffle. Bowhunting for me is hunting with a compound and crossbow, and if I would have more time to become proficient with a traditional bow I would use it too. Why use compound and crossbow? Simple, because I can!

Gateholio
03-14-2008, 11:24 PM
Crossbows are held at the draw with mechanical aid, but they are cocked using muscle, held with muscle, and aimed with muscle.8)

And for that matter, many compound bow hunters use mechanical devices to hold the string, too.:wink:

sealevel
03-15-2008, 04:19 AM
Now lets attack inline muzzleloaders did i ever tell you how much i hate them !!:razz: :-P

rocksteady
03-15-2008, 05:44 AM
. Its the guys that buy one 4 days before bow only elk season that started this debate about crossbows . .

Most of these guys will have their gear for sale in the classifieds within 2 years because they may have become good shots but crappy at the skills any archery hunter needs to become successful...Quiet/patient/stealthy...etc etc etc

J_T
03-15-2008, 05:58 AM
I suspect the perspective is a question of your involvement in archery/bowhunting. In BC, crossbows are legal archery tackle.

If you spend a lot of time within the archery community, bowhunting purist or 3d FITA shooter, then the crossbow will likely not fall into your definition of a bow. Are crossbows allowed at Federal FITA shoots? Are crossbow harvests allowed in Pope & Young? Are the first questions that come to mind in our quick judgement.

If you are a hunter and archery is not your first love, and you are looking to take advantage of an additional hunting opportunity, within BC, we are fortunate to be able to use the crossbow within the bow only seasons. In this instance we will likely not see the subtlties of the differences.

While we have an educational issue for first time bowhunters, in BC there is lots of country and normally lots of animals. Adding crossbow users to the bow only season has little negative impact on the bow hunt and maximum impact on supporting our collective want for hunter participation.

Many jurisdictions do have to manage the number of hunters on the landscape and they draw the line for management reasons excluding crossbows from bow seasons.

We quite often use data from south of the boarder in our arguements on here. For some perspective, I've attached the position of a number of "bowhunting organizations" from the south.


Crossbows

To Whom It May Concern,

The representatives of 32 state and provincial-level bowhunting organizations met on April 17-18 in Springfield, Missouri at the first “NATIONAL BOWHUNTING SUMMIT”. The purpose of the summit was to share information and develop strategies to resolve issues of greatest concern and to establish a permanent communications network of bowhunting organizations that will work together on behalf of bowhunting.

A major issue addressed by the summit attendees was the use of crossbows during archery-only hunting seasons. It was immediately apparent that the attendees were unified as being strongly opposed to the use of crossbows in any bowhunting season.

State and provincial representatives unanimously agreed that crossbows are not bows and should not be allowed in archery-only seasons.

A hunting bow is recognized as a compound, recurve or longbow that is handdrawn and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw. Crossbows, on the other hand, are locked at full draw by a trigger, utilize a rifle-like stock, have rigidly controlled internal ballistics, can readily be shot from a rest
and typically use a telescopic sight. A crossbow’s characteristics are so vastly different from those of conventional bows that summit attendees agreed that crossbows would negatively impact bowhunting seasons if allowed in archery-only seasons.

While the group recognized and supported the rights of hunters who choose to use other legal weapons in separate hunting seasons, they stood unanimously opposed to any effort to establish hunting season regulations where the ultimate aim is the inclusion of crossbows in bowhunting seasons or in archery-only areas.

The below signed organizations and bowhunting-related businesses have joined the National Bowhunting Summit conferees in believing that, in order to preserve the integrity of bowhunting, it is vital that crossbows not be permitted in bow seasons or archery-only hunting areas.
Respectfully,
Alabama Society of Traditional Bowmen
Alaskan Bowhunters Association
Alberta Bowhunters Association
Alberta Traditional Bowhunters
Archery Big Bucks of Missouri
Archery Past (OR)
Association of Traditional Hunting Archers
Bayou State Bowhunters (LA)
Bob’s Archery Sales (CO)
Bowhunting Council of Oklahoma
Bowhunters of Alabama
Bowhunters of Wyoming
Carolina Traditional Archers
Colorado Bowhunters Association
Compton Traditional Bowhunters
Georgia Bowhunters Association
Green Mountain Traditional Bowhunters
Horse Creek Traditional Archery Club (FL)
Idaho State Bowhunters
Idaho Traditional Bowhunters
Illinois Bowhunters Society
Indiana Bowhunters Association
Iowa Bowhunters Association
Iowa Traditional Bowhunters Society
Kansas Bowhunters Association
Lone Star Bowhunters Association (TX)
Maine Bowhunters Association
Maine Traditional Archers
Maryland Bowhunters Society
Massachusetts Bowhunters Association
Michigan Bow Hunters Association
Michigan Traditional Bowhunters
Minnesota Bowhunters, Inc.
Mississippi Bowhunters Association
Missouri Bow Hunters Association
Montana Bowhunters Association
Nebraska Bowhunters Association
Nebraska Traditional Archers
New York Bowhunters, Inc.
North Carolina Bowhunters Association
North Dakota Bowhunters Association
Northern Bowhunters Association (AB)Ohio Bowhunters Association
Oregon Bow Hunters
Pennyslvania Association of Traditional Hunting Archers
Pope and Young Club
Professional Bowhunters Society
South Carolina Bowhunters Association
South Dakota Bowhunters, Inc.
Suburban Whitetail Management of North Georgia
Suncoast Archers, Inc. (FL)
Tallahassee Bowhunters Association (FL)
Traditional Bowhunters of California
Traditional Bowhunter Magazine
Traditional Archers of New Jersey
Traditional Archers of Oregon
Traditional Bowhunters of Florida
Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia
Traditional Bowhunters of Montana
Traditional Bowhunters of Washington
United Bowhunters of Connecticut
United Bowhunters of Illinois
United Bowhunters of Kentucky
United Bowhunters of Missouri
United Bowhunters of New Jersey
United Bowhunters Pennsylvania
Virginia Bowhunters Association
Wakulla Archery Club (FL)
Washington State Bowhunters
Washington State Archery Association
West Virginia Bowhunters Association
Wisconsin Bowhunters Association

huntwriter
03-15-2008, 07:25 AM
J-T – I put very little value in what archery clubs have to say about the crossbow. The reason being that most clubs display an elitist agenda. The same goes for the Pope and Young Club.

This is by no means only a archery club problem, we see similar agendas in other clubs. Take muzzleloader for example with their endless and tiresome discussions about modern in-lines.

It is these organizations that have started many years ago to create and circulate the unfounded myth about crossbows. Now that the crossbow becomes more popular each year it is interesting to watch how some clubs smell the bacon (revenue) and become pro-crossbow.

To cite yet another example form the south of the border. Tennessee, talk about a crowded place, has permitted crossbows in the regular archery season. At first bowhunters were very upset but now they agree, with a few exceptions of diehards, that the crossbow has no negative influence on the archery season and the enjoyment of the archery only season. I rest my case.

Walksalot
03-15-2008, 07:27 AM
The fact crossbows are easier to shoot makes them perfect for the hunter who has limited time to practice. Crossbows are not all plus, plus. Most of the time an archer has one chance with a crossbow because to get it ready to loose another arrow is a bit of a procedure. A well tuned crossbow is an accurate weapon so this may well equate to less wounded animals in the field. Form is till important as the key to accuracy is having every motion the carbon copy of the previous one.

How many traditional shooters practice enough to become and maintain the learned skill of instinctive shooting. I have tried traditional equipment so I know the dedication to practice required to become and maintain excellence in instinctive shooting. Every morning I face East and give praise to a higher authority for giving me the insight to sell my recurve. It makes me shake my head when I hear purists deem others as lesser individuals because of their choice of weapon.

How many compound shooters do the practice required to be an accurate shooter and competent in estimating distance. Once the pins are set for a compound bow the use of a range finder allows the shooter to be accurate at longer distance. Is this not an aid in achieving greater accuracy with the result being less wounded animals. Hey, any compound shooter who uses a range finder should have their head shaved and be taken out and beaten.

It's sad to think the only time we will come together is when the writing is on the wall for the demise of our sport. Unfortunately it will probably be to little to late.

huntwriter
03-15-2008, 07:52 AM
Now that right there is a A1+ post.:cool:

Onesock
03-15-2008, 08:23 AM
I'm glad you saw the humor Bow Walker

Onesock
03-15-2008, 08:25 AM
However, we all have our opinions on this issue and nothing will be resolved by this post other than realizing we all have our opinions. You guys that think x-bows are archery gear just all have the wrong opinion. And you are entitled to that!!!

huntwriter
03-15-2008, 08:44 AM
However, we all have our opinions on this issue and nothing will be resolved by this post other than realizing we all have our opinions. You guys that think x-bows are archery gear just all have the wrong opinion. And you are entitled to that!!!

In other words you're right and all others that don’t share your opinion are wrong. Wow!!! :eek:

Gateholio
03-15-2008, 08:52 AM
J-T – I put very little value in what archery clubs have to say about the crossbow. The reason being that most clubs display an elitist agenda. The same goes for the Pope and Young Club.

]

That's an understatement!!:D


Look at the states represented. IS there some sort of conservation concern with all of them? Nope! Many of them have reasonably liberal bag limits.8)

OOBuck
03-15-2008, 09:15 AM
However, we all have our opinions on this issue and nothing will be resolved by this post other than realizing we all have our opinions. You guys that think x-bows are archery gear just all have the wrong opinion. And you are entitled to that!!!


Thank for clarifying that for us.. Signed the wrong opinion gang. :roll:

Bow Walker
03-15-2008, 10:55 AM
Great discussion guys. Lots of information - most good, some crap - but lots of info being exchanged. Now to my thoughts on various posts that jumped out at me.


I suspect the perspective is a question of your involvement in archery/bowhunting. In BC, crossbows are legal archery tackle.

If you spend a lot of time within the archery community, bowhunting purist or 3d FITA shooter, then the crossbow will likely not fall into your definition of a bow. Are crossbows allowed at Federal FITA shoots? Are crossbow harvests allowed in Pope & Young? Are the first questions that come to mind in our quick judgement.

If you are a hunter and archery is not your first love, and you are looking to take advantage of an additional hunting opportunity, within BC, we are fortunate to be able to use the crossbow within the bow only seasons. In this instance we will likely not see the subtlties of the differences.

While we have an educational issue for first time bowhunters, in BC there is lots of country and normally lots of animals. Adding crossbow users to the bow only season has little negative impact on the bow hunt and maximum impact on supporting our collective want for hunter participation.

Many jurisdictions do have to manage the number of hunters on the landscape and they draw the line for management reasons excluding crossbows from bow seasons.

We quite often use data from south of the boarder in our arguements on here. For some perspective, I've attached the position of a number of "bowhunting organizations" from the south.



Crossbows


To Whom It May Concern,
.....Crossbows, on the other hand, are locked at full draw by a trigger, utilize a rifle-like stock, have rigidly controlled internal ballistics, can readily be shot from a rest
and typically use a telescopic sight. A crossbow’s characteristics are so vastly different from those of conventional bows that summit attendees agreed that crossbows would negatively impact bowhunting seasons if allowed in archery-only seasons......


J_T
1. I think it's the other way around...people who spend a lot of time in and around Archery get to know (and become familiar with) all types of archery equipment - including the Crossbow.

2. Talk about "elitists", "narrow minded" "stiff and unchanging"....Pope and Young are at the top of the list.

3. VERY well put.

4. I really doubt that the reason for Crossbow exclusion from Bow Only Season is for "management reasons". The total number(s) of game harvested by archery tackle is minuscule when compared to that of guns.

5. :confused:I'm sorry, I must be missing something here, but what the hell are "rigidly controlled internal ballistics?"


The fact crossbows are easier to shoot makes them perfect for the hunter who has limited time to practice. Crossbows are not all plus, plus. Most of the time an archer has one chance with a crossbow because to get it ready to loose another arrow is a bit of a procedure. A well tuned crossbow is an accurate weapon so this may well equate to less wounded animals in the field. Form is till important as the key to accuracy is having every motion the carbon copy of the previous one.

How many traditional shooters practice enough to become and maintain the learned skill of instinctive shooting. I have tried traditional equipment so I know the dedication to practice required to become and maintain excellence in instinctive shooting. Every morning I face East and give praise to a higher authority for giving me the insight to sell my recurve. It makes me shake my head when I hear purists deem others as lesser individuals because of their choice of weapon.

How many compound shooters do the practice required to be an accurate shooter and competent in estimating distance. Once the pins are set for a compound bow the use of a range finder allows the shooter to be accurate at longer distance. Is this not an aid in achieving greater accuracy with the result being less wounded animals. Hey, any compound shooter who uses a range finder should have their head shaved and be taken out and beaten.

It's sad to think the only time we will come together is when the writing is on the wall for the demise of our sport. Unfortunately it will probably be to little to late.
Walksalot - I believe that you'd be very surprised at the level of commitment demonstrated by the hunters who choose to hunt using archery equipment. Sighting in your pins and then using a rangefinder does not equate to accuracy in any way. Just because an archer can hit the bulls eye at 20 yards does not mean that using a rangefinder, that same archer will hit the bulls eye at 40 yards.

Saying that shaved heads and beatings are the norm for hunters who want to increase the possibility of a quick kill (while being comedic in a sense) is just ludicrous. But - from what I have seen and read from you I suspect that your tongue was definitely "in cheek".


I'm glad you saw the humor Bow Walker
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYJOCA)


However, we all have our opinions on this issue and nothing will be resolved by this post other than realizing we all have our opinions. You guys that think x-bows are archery gear just all have the wrong opinion. And you are entitled to that!!!
"huntwriter" replies to "Onesock"...

In other words you're right and all others that don’t share your opinion are wrong. Wow!!!
:cool: That's why they're called "personal opinions". Like 'em or not, they belong to only one person. I've got mine and lord knows Mike has his...:biggrin:





Keep up the verbal barrage guys - we'll wear down the nay-sayers with volume if not content.







http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZSYYYYYYJOCA (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZSYYYYYYJOCA&utm_id=7924)

J_T
03-15-2008, 04:14 PM
Just to add then to my comments. Perhaps give them a bit more substance.


1. I think it's the other way around...people who spend a lot of time in and around Archery get to know (and become familiar with) all types of archery equipment - including the Crossbow.
(I'll split this with you, by and large, those who hunt with a bow in BC accept the Crossbow as a bow, those that have an interest with a foundation in target archery - having not seen crossbows at competitions - are more likely to flip to the "no" side of the debate. There are other reasons, but this was the simplicity in mine.)

2. Talk about "elitists", "narrow minded" "stiff and unchanging"....Pope and Young are at the top of the list.

(Well, I have to think, without Saxton Pope and Art Young, we might well have a very different definition of archery. If any definition or knowledge of it at all. A life with the bow in hand to Pope and Young, was a way of life. The way it is to many. "A lifestyle, rather than a sport".)

As far as the Organization goes. When we start recording statistics, standards must be maintained to ensure fair evaluation. The difficulty is that when we hold to something, adhere to a particular standard we are judged - usually in a negative sense... different, unique, elitist)

3. VERY well put.

4. I really doubt that the reason for Crossbow exclusion from Bow Only Season is for "management reasons". The total number(s) of game harvested by archery tackle is minuscule when compared to that of guns.
In my opinion, as game is managed, there has to be attention paid to all parts fo the equation. Hunters being one. If consideration is being given to implementing a new opportunity, a part of that decision is based on how many participants it will have. In the States some jurisdictions manage harvest numbers by managing weapons type/use.
The implementation of a bow only opportunity is in part based on the number of hunters likely to participate and the percentage that will harvest. (IE estimating the harvest is the key). For example: We have the potential to implement a bow only whitetail deer season, based on what we know today. As the opportunity increases in popularity more hunters will start up, or cross over (from rifle as an example) to participate. In the example in the States that I am reflecting on, (i just forget the jurisdiction, but I'm sure GG, or FD will help out) a bow only season was implemented and it included crossbow, after three years running the number of participants had increased 3 or 4 times. That meant the harvest went up.
When they analysed it, the found that the increase was due to crossbow use. IE, rifle hunters crossing over. The resultant action, was to remove the crossbow from the opportunity, rather than risking a greater than anticipated harvest or removing the opportunity altogether. What they found in addition to the increase in bow hunter numbers, was the effective range of the crossbow increased harvest exponentially by moving the advantage to the hunter. And Wildlife management officials wanted to maintain the balance.

As I previously stated, this is not an issue for the most part in BC.

5. :confused:I'm sorry, I must be missing something here, but what the hell are "rigidly controlled internal ballistics?" This would be a term used to describe how a person comes to terms with inflamatory bowel disease.

sealevel
03-15-2008, 09:35 PM
I stopped at boormans in new west today . Ron boorman is telling a customer about a crossbow these are his words .... A crossbow is easy to shoot i would just take you down stairs a couple shots and you are ready for hunting... This is to a guy who new nothing about archery..... I walked out right then

Bow Walker
03-15-2008, 11:56 PM
5. :confused:I'm sorry, I must be missing something here, but what the hell are "rigidly controlled internal ballistics?" This would be a term used to describe how a person comes to terms with inflamatory bowel disease.

Jeeezz! I almost sprayed my screen with the "Unwooded" Chardonnay that I'm sippin' on! Too funny. :biggrin::biggrin:


I stopped at boormans in new west today . Ron boorman is telling a customer about a crossbow these are his words .... A crossbow is easy to shoot i would just take you down stairs a couple shots and you are ready for hunting... This is to a guy who new nothing about archery..... I walked out right then
Shocking, isn't it? Medals, ribbons, and accolades do not a hunter make.:roll:

huntwriter
03-16-2008, 07:24 AM
I stopped at boormans in new west today . Ron boorman is telling a customer about a crossbow these are his words .... A crossbow is easy to shoot i would just take you down stairs a couple shots and you are ready for hunting... This is to a guy who new nothing about archery..... I walked out right then

Shocking, I guess to make a sale everything goes. No wonder some hunters think of the crossbow as the magical tool for hunting if they are told crap like that by a so called pro.

Onesock
03-16-2008, 07:32 PM
Huntwriter-- You seem to think your opinion is right????????????

OOBuck
03-16-2008, 07:52 PM
"Are Crossbows archery equipment"

Not according to no socks...:smile:

huntwriter
03-16-2008, 08:09 PM
Huntwriter-- You seem to think your opinion is right????????????

Nope – It’s an opinion shaped on research and experience. As hard as I looked I just never was able to find a shred of factual evidence that would remotely support all the negative hype surrounding the crossbow.

In no way did I try to belittle you. You have your opinion and I have mien. I meant my remark in good humor.:smile:

GoatGuy
03-16-2008, 08:36 PM
To Whom It May Concern,

The representatives of 32 state and provincial-level bowhunting organizations met on April 17-18 in Springfield, Missouri at the first “NATIONAL BOWHUNTING SUMMIT”. .

A major issue addressed by the summit attendees was the use of crossbows during archery-only hunting seasons. It was immediately apparent that the attendees were unified as being strongly opposed to the use of crossbows in any bowhunting season.

State and provincial representatives unanimously agreed that crossbows are not bows and should not be allowed in archery-only seasons.





The red words are the key - anti-crossbow hunters representing anti-crossbow sentiment. Get a like-minded bunch locked in the same room for the same purpose and you'll get the same answer. This does not represent the hunter population but only the avid who look to further improve their own opportunities.

Hunters today think about themselves, not the hunter population.


First one to the bottom of the barrel wins.:roll:


Somewhat inconsistent that causal information is used to cite American sources and disregarded on other occasions when it does not support the argument of the day. I suppose that's the 'chat' part.