World record Elk?

[oddsix]

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/uploads/post-12295-1159827261.jpg

[trigger]

WOW. i dont care how far back he is sitting. that is still very very impressive

[freeman6]

Where is it from? Not New Zealand I hope, I can't afford to bring my elk meat home from there. AAAAAAAAAAAh, I can't afford to get there either.

[hunter1947]

Onley in my dreams ,that is one big mother. I say it scored 460.

[Jetboater]

it was shoot off a private ranch, the fellow in the picture has a couple farmed elk shots...

[Bowzone_Mikey]

welcome to a few years ago ....
it is a high fence elk ...word around the campfire is that the ...(cough) hunter.... tried to enter is a WR ...while being investigated it was found to be shot on an Elk Farm

[yama49]

i dont think it should b a record, if it was a elk farm.. BUT SURE IS IMPRESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oddsix]

perhaps this one is....

http://blog.kingsoutdoorworld.com/2005/10/18/amazing-502-world-record-bull-elk/

[Islandeer]

:frown: For me this is the same as catching a 100 lb pen raised chinook. But it is what it is, a freakin monster. And the hunter is not saying it was killed on public lands.

[tomahawk]

Those bulls look like they have been hanging out with Roger Clemens and his steriod injectin trainer! That can't be all from natural feed?

[tangozulu]

Pretty Pathetic......................why do we have to share our sport with this garbage?
Love the story......................2004 season and 2005 season. I hardly think these guys have to worry about any open season. And the line about coming accross 2 huge elk................du was this a surprise...........what utter crap.
Be gone

[tuom]

What a load of hooey. No doubt some "hunter" south of the border paid big bucks to take the trophy of his dreams. Keep dreaming.

[Walksalot]

A couple of nice animals.
Canned hunts are nothing new and there are people willing to pay big bucks to have the bragging rights to have shot such an impressive animal, it is capitalism at it's best. Its not my cup of tea but hey, don't begrudge the rancher the money as he/she probably invested a lot of time and money to achieve the resulting antler growth.
Something to ponder. A rancher watches a huge buck walk into his alfalfa field every evening. He gives a hunter a shout and tells him/her to come and shoot it. The first day of hunting season the hunter drives into the ranchers yard, rests his gun on the fence and shoots the deer. Is there a lot of difference between the two hunters. There is, in so much as one can enter the animal into "the book" and the other can't.

[J_T]

Interesting discussion on that link Oddsix.

I wonder how much those animals weighed? With the larger bull they said they moved it for a second photo. Have any of you ever tried to move a mature elk or moose? I wonder what they used to move it?

I'm still undecided on Ried's comments about fair chase. If it can't jump the fence and leave the area (no matter how big) it is still captive.

Big horns on them both though. Big horns.

[huntwriter]

Here we go again, as soon as the word “high fence” comes up some confuse that with “canned” hunt or shooting fish in a barrel.
Not all high fence operations are the same. Some operations have thousands of acres fenced in and strict rules as to how close you can hunt to the fence. Going after an animal in such operations is very much the same as hunting in open country since the animals are not tame.
Some hunters have their reservations about high fence hunting but we should be fair and make distinctions between canned hunt and high fence.

[tomahawk]

Here we go again, as soon as the word “high fence” comes up some confuse that with “canned” hunt or shooting fish in a barrel.
Not all high fence operations are the same. Some operations have thousands of acres fenced in and strict rules as to how close you can hunt to the fence. Going after an animal in such operations is very much the same as hunting in open country since the animals are not tame.
Some hunters have their reservations about high fence hunting but we should be fair and make distinctions between canned hunt and high fence.

I hear what your saying, however I believe these animals could be:

1) restricted from going where they choose by a fence
2) eating supplemented food or food that other animals outside do not
3) free from predation, which creates an animal that is less spooky

Not a level playing field and in my eyes not a fair chase.

[huntwriter]

Absolutely agree with you tomahawk. I am just a bit tired of those that have to get derogatory about it. My point of view is to each his or her own. Besides anti hunters are regular readers on this and other forums too and we should not provide them with arguments to support their agenda. Just my humble opinion.:smile:

[tomahawk]

Besides anti hunters are regular readers on this and other forums too and we should not provide them with arguments to support their agenda. Just my humble opinion.:smile:

Words of wisdom HW, they also put in for LEH's and of course never use them.

[recurvehunter]

A couple of nice animals.
Canned hunts are nothing new and there are people willing to pay big bucks to have the bragging rights to have shot such an impressive animal, it is capitalism at it's best. Its not my cup of tea but hey, don't begrudge the rancher the money as he/she probably invested a lot of time and money to achieve the resulting antler growth.
Something to ponder. A rancher watches a huge buck walk into his alfalfa field every evening. He gives a hunter a shout and tells him/her to come and shoot it. The first day of hunting season the hunter drives into the ranchers yard, rests his gun on the fence and shoots the deer. Is there a lot of difference between the two hunters. There is, in so much as one can enter the animal into "the book" and the other can't.

the differnece is that animal can dissapear and never be seen again - it wide open to where it can go . how many time have we seen huge deer and season opens up to never see it again and where it it may go can be anywhere
- fenced - well we know it's there with out a doubt. yes can be huge area but we still know it's there.
some people do not mind hunting that way - great go to it.
but lets not say it the same as hunting in the wild.

[ryanb]

Just because the fenced area is an area of thousands of acres does NOT make it fair chase. In open country, 1-2000 acres is A LOT smaller than it sounds.

In open country, any bumbling idiot could shoot an elk given a few days to roam around the "pasture".

[Schutzen]

I find this whole topic confusing... just what is a fair definition of so called fair chase.
Years ago there was a study done somewhere in the states. They fenced off an area of like 5 treed acres or so put a fair number of whitetails in it and then let a good number of hunters in. Know what... a lot of those hunters were convinced there were no deer in that enclosure, never saw one! Basically the study showed that the deer had the upper hand as long as the rut was out of the equation.
I know for a fact that many deer/game are shot yearly in and around farms/food sources, water tanks, feeders, basically tame/human conditioned deer. Are there no fences in these areas, is a fences existence the sole criteria???
Your avg. game animal needs 1000's of unfenced acres to be considered OK when under most conditions they will stay within a few square miles for weeks or months at a time.
Good trophy or not? How far do we take this deal? Hell you could even shoot an Elk within a fenced large area and not even know it in certain circumstances.
I guess it depends on the type of animal, if its human conditioned, the size of the area etc.
But I still find it a confusing issue.

[cassiarkid]

When you go out hunting, you basically have no idea on the trophy quality of the animal you will see that day. You could see the next world record or nothing at all, that to me is a huge part of hunting, the unknown. On a ranch hunt, you pay x $ for a 300-325 bull, a little more for a 325-350 bull, so you know exactly what you will be hunting and the rancher will know exatly where he will find him. Not hunting, more like killing! It has gone so stupid that one rancher tried to do internet hunts, where you didn't even have to leave your house to shoot an animal!!! Why even bother, just to brag about hanging on your wall. I think true hunters might agree with the Greenies on ranch hunts, I know I do.

Cheers

[huntwriter]

I find this whole topic confusing... just what is a fair definition of so called fair chase.
Years ago there was a study done somewhere in the states. They fenced off an area of like 5 treed acres or so put a fair number of whitetails in it and then let a good number of hunters in. Know what... a lot of those hunters were convinced there were no deer in that enclosure, never saw one! Basically the study showed that the deer had the upper hand as long as the rut was out of the equation.
I know for a fact that many deer/game are shot yearly in and around farms/food sources, water tanks, feeders, basically tame/human conditioned deer. Are there no fences in these areas, is a fences existence the sole criteria???
Your avg. game animal needs 1000's of unfenced acres to be considered OK when under most conditions they will stay within a few square miles for weeks or months at a time.
Good trophy or not? How far do we take this deal? Hell you could even shoot an Elk within a fenced large area and not even know it in certain circumstances.
I guess it depends on the type of animal, if its human conditioned, the size of the area etc.
But I still find it a confusing issue.

Fair chase is something Pope & Young came up with meaning that the animals have to be free roaming.

But as you stated quite rightly deer that are so used to live near agricultural crop fields are conditioned in some ways and rarely leave that area. In fact I have hunted many farms in America and found that you can set your watch to deer movement.

Here in Canada we’re spoiled with wilderness. In America, with the exception of a few states, most hunting areas are urban. So you could say that animals are in some ways “domesticated”.

The study you refer to here has clearly shown that fenced game hunting on ranches is just like wild game hunting. Fenced hunting is very different from canned hunting were the game animal is driven into a small pen. Saying that the two are one and the same would be the same as saying that a cattle ranch of several thousand acres is the same as a hobby farm of five acres.

[Schutzen]

I understand that there are huge ranches in Texas that have hunts on them for exotics. IIRC the YO ranch is one of them. Do the animals taken there count as fair chase?

[Gateholio]

I wonder if hunting on the 825,000 acre King Ranch in Texas (which is bigger than Rhode Island) is considered a "canned" hunt?:D

[Will]

Go to Safeway and "Buy" a pack of steaks........
or Go to a Game Farm...& shoot your own "steaks"
What's the Difference ? Really ? :cool:


I don't begrudge anyone......it is what it is. For many these "Ranches" are alot of Fun and Great sport. It may be the "darker" side of our Hunting world but it is a part of it and won't be going away anytime soon.

Don't like it, then don't do it ! :wink:

[Gateholio]

Go to Safeway and "Buy" a pack of steaks........
or Go to a Game Farm...& shoot your own "steaks"
What's the Difference ? Really ? :cool:





I "hunted" wild Russian boars wiht crossbows on a fenced ranch.

Was it hunting the high country in beautiful BC? No way.

Was it hard work? You bet. It was way more effort than cruising around in a truck and shooting over the hood, like many BC moose/deer/bear hunts are conducted. It was harder than doing a "still hunt" through anything except steep mountain or coastal jungle BC....

Was it a fun way to get some excellent meat? Hell YEAH!!:biggrin:

Best pork I ever tasted....:cool:

[tomahawk]

Go to Safeway and "Buy" a pack of steaks........
or Go to a Game Farm...& shoot your own "steaks"
What's the Difference ? Really ? :cool:


Then I don't think they should call it hunting! Call it game management or farming cull or what have you. IMO it does not belong in the same class as hunting anymore than the person who goes to a fish farm and catches a fish in a restricted pond with boundaries is called "fishing" to me. I think it has its place in getting young folks interested but not for experienced hunters or fisherman.

To me this is closer to "farm or ranch management" than hunting. I don't know much about the "King Ranch" but if they are involved in game management, feed enhancement and boundaries then it would certainly be tougher to hunt their 825,000 acres ranch but it is not the same as hunting wilderness animals. If the King Ranch don't do anything but offer paid hunts on their open land then it would not be any different IMO.

A big part of hunting to me is all about the challenge. Hunting where the animals are purposefully given supplemented feed and have boundaries is at the bottom of the totem pole in quality IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

[dana]

Regardless of the size of the operation, the one thing many of you are forgetting, is the 'Prize' animal has been created by unnatural circumstances. AI, Clonning, Genetic Manipulation, Growth Homones and every kind on Steriod known and unknown is what creates these elk that have 500+ inches of bone on their head. Just recently I saw pics of 'Heartattack', a hand raised whitetail buck that was breed and fed steriods to the point that he had a rack that was 33 inches wide with drop tines and extras and a score of 240 or something like that. They measured him while he was alive. They then turned him out on one of these high fenced ranches, where his price tag is a cool million bucks. I'm sure the so-called hunter that kills him will be proud, but come on now, do you think that is what hunting is all about?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I was first turned off high fenced hunting after the editor from BGA went elk "hunting" at "North Sask" in Sask. He tried to make it challeging by using his bow. Well, after a pile of blown stalks on the same bull (like that happens in nature:?) he gave up on the bow and used a firearm. Just had to have that monster elk.

"Braggin' Sized Bulls is North Sask's claim to fame.
Ya, I would relly enjoy braggin' about that:roll:.

SSS

[Gateholio]

I was first turned off high fenced hunting after the editor from BGA went elk "hunting" at "North Sask" in Sask. He tried to make it challeging by using his bow. Well, after a pile of blown stalks on the same bull (like that happens in nature:?) he gave up on the bow and used a firearm. Just had to have that monster elk.

"Braggin' Sized Bulls is North Sask's claim to fame.
Ya, I would relly enjoy braggin' about that:roll:.

SSS

That sums it up for me...

I had a tonne of fun hunting those pigs, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, and I wouldn't mind hunting "exotics" in Texas (although I doubt I ever will) but I dont' have any interest in hunting elk/deer on a ranch.

We went out to have some fun, chase some pigs and get some good meat- there was no "trophy" aspect to it.

The whole "steroid/cloning etc" stuff turns me off.

I don't condemn the industry as a whole, though, as a guy could have some great fun hunting certain species, for FUN, not trophies..And a kid or a old guy may have a hell of a time geting his first or last buck at one of these operations, too.

One thing to always remember. We in BC look at much hunting methods (from bear baiting to ranches, etc) with a jaundiced eye. Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to hunt in an area that we do.

[Schutzen]

The record book is full of Big Mulies shot in Texas or Mexico and the way a lot of them were taken would not stand up to my ideals of fair chase.
For instance the story I read about hunting Sendero deer where theres feeders in certain spots and they build senderos like roads to the feeders the hunters sit up in 20 foot hi stands and shoot them while the deer are traveling the sendero on the way to water or feed! In one instance the guide had a toyota landcruiser with a hi stand built into the p/u bed (10-12" hi) where the hunters sat in and shot the deer.
I get what Dana's saying where its all special breeding an such and you pay a big fee for it canned hunt and all.
But people pay big fee's to hunt with guides and you know what.. most of them without the help of the guide would not get diddly. This that much different he's buying his animal in a sense.
Man theres so many things about this whole deal.....confusing
From what Gates said about his Boar hunt and the bit I know about him I would not dream of sullying his hunt with any labels.
I think maybe things/times are changing and the rules/criteria are not.

[BCJunior]

great bull no matter how you look at it, record or not because of farmed.

[Gateholio]

From what Gates said about his Boar hunt and the bit I know about him I would not dream of sullying his hunt with any labels.
.

I'll label it for you;-)

It was a ranch hunt. :lol:

High fences. Lots of opportunity for the boars to escape from us. 10 of us over 2 days bagged 7 boars. The boars were cagey, tough and hard to hunt.

Not nearly as satisfying as getting a great "wild" animal, on foot, in BC, but alot more fun than most people would believe. WAAAY more fun than shopping for meat.:biggrin:

As I said- There have been MANY animals killed in BC using WAY less effort than what we did. Most animals in BC get shot less than 100 yards from the road, so maybe we should condemn any of those hunters, too.:grin:

[ryanb]

I don't think people condemn fenced hunts so much as scoff at people who post up photos of the RECORD animal they took, bragging about how big the rack is, and how they were free roaming on a HUGE ranch...

[huntwriter]

As has been said here, hunting big ranches can be fun. It also has been said by Gatehouse and me, that we here are spoiled for wilderness unlike many states in America. Are we to judge folks because they engage in something that is legal? What’s next frowning upon fishers chasing trophy bass for a million dollars in prize money in stocked lakes and ponds?

I think it is okay to disagree but we still can keep an open mind and at least respect the fact that there are other forms of hunting. As for steroids, genetic manipulation and hormone treatment, it’s unfortunate but if some are so concerned about that sort of treatment then don’t go in a superstore and buy meat, milk and eggs either, or fruit and vegetables for that matter.

Like Gatehouse, I have chased hogs too and yes it is every bit as challenging as chasing them, or any other critter, in the wild. Would I hunt deer and elk behind a fence? Probably not but it doesn’t bother me if others do. To each his own. Live and let live. Besides I don’t want to give the antis more ammunition by publicly opposing something that is not a big deal.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Here's something to ponder...it's from Theodore Roosevelt's "Principals of the Hunt"

"The Rich....who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own exertions-these are the real enemies of game".

He had some incredible foresight.

SSS