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sneg
12-23-2007, 12:07 AM
I was duck hunting at Boundary Bay marshes few weeks ago.
Action was fine in the morning.Beatifull sunrise and etc...
I went to pick up another mallard from the water and on my way back to my blind ...suddenly... bang ..bang... somebody was shooting over my head 10 yards in front of me,just behind my blind.
You know it feels like somebody is shooting at you...
It is difficult to describe that feeling.
So I talk to that guy and try to explain that he is supposed to find another spot and no way he should try to shoot over somebody's head.
Conversation was difficult, he is new immigrant from China and insists that his mentor / consultant teaches him that there is no rules in Hunting regulations that impose any distances between hunters.
More over , in 20 min or so his mentor/consultant arrives . We had another conversation with same results.

I do not remember any such rules either.Safety was obvious for me all my hunting life and this story happened to me at first time.
I just decided to pick up my decoys and leave,anyway I'm hunting for fun only and do not want to be shoot over my head at point blank. I notice they continue the "duck hunting"- shooting at sea gulls, sea ducks and everyting what is flying withing 200 yards.

However , still I'm having mixed feeling, safe hunting is not all what CORE about ? Would be it wise or lawfull to ask for his Hunter Number Card and report to CO for review ?
Any opinions or similar experiences?
:?

Gateholio
12-23-2007, 12:18 AM
There isn't any set rules about how far you must be, but there are sure rules about pointing a gun at someone!!

I suggest that you record licence plates if you can, and contact a CO. He may want to give them a lecture, which is probaly what is needed.

I might have told him there are no laws regarding you sitting behind HIM.:-P

One Shot
12-23-2007, 12:29 AM
I agree there is no rules inregards to minimum distances between hunters but there is a criminal code regulation inregards to "The dangerous use of a firearm" as well as a federal wildlife regulation that prohibits the hunting or killing of sea birds, sea gulls included. Takes pictures of the violators and their vehicles with your camera or cell phone or at least record them and report them immediately to authorities. It is bad enough when persons born and raised here violate the regs but we do not need people coming here and bringing their non conservation, non sportsman and dangerous habits here and think it is okay.:mad:

Pete
12-23-2007, 12:43 AM
In Core Classes safety is always a concern and we try to impress upon the students the importance of safe firearms handling as well we try to encourge them to think in an ethical manner having care and concern for their fellow hunter as well as other people that are out there. There is actually a section that recommends what do and where to locate in a situation such as this. Unfortunately as with just about everything in todays world there are those that just don't get the message. A few years back I instructed a class that had 3 young lads that were obiously friends. Not long after the course was over they were arrested along with their parents pit lamping. This even after we discussed this in class and were supplied with the ORR Observe, Record and Report Cards W can lead them to water but we can't make them drink.

Crazy_Farmer
12-23-2007, 12:48 AM
Theres no need for guys like that out there, they need to be taught a lesson. See them again out there doing the same stuff, carry a large blaze orange jacket or some ugly bright colour and no waterfowl will even come close, hang it in your blind and if they come back they'll think that spot isnt very good for hunting and they'll move. Do something funny, or get there info and go to the COs

ruger#1
12-23-2007, 01:04 AM
report them for shooting seagulls, that is against the law. no more problem.

threedhunter
12-23-2007, 01:16 AM
i agree with pete, there is a mention of ethical hunting as to the exact situation that was initialy stated.i instruct all my students that unless we own the property we hunt on , we cannot tell others that are already in the spot we chose to hunt to move, also i insist that they not disturb the hunter but move to another safe location.this is only showing respectto our fellow hunters but also promoting goodwill towards others as well. it seems that the fellows "mentor" needs to attend a proper CORE session to find out/ remind him that hunting in canada is still only a privilidge not a right.:mrgreen: asto the seagull shooting, damn straight, report them asap.

rishu_pepper
12-23-2007, 01:40 AM
I'm Chinese but that wasn't me :biggrin:

In all seriousness, as a naturalized immigrant myself (I've lived in Canada longer than in HK), we can see that language/cultural barriers are present and it is definitely the hunter's responsibility to be absolutely certain of the regulations, especially when English isn't one's first language. I know some older Chinese guys who pull some rather boneheaded moves while hunting, and it saddens me to hear these things, whether the hunter is Chinese or Canadian. We don't need anymore negative publicity, especially within our own hunting community.

If it happens again at B-bay, RAPP is your friend.

Ian F.
12-23-2007, 08:09 AM
I had this happen to me, alhought 60-75 yards, not 10, earlier in the year. Know how you feel. I spoke with a federal CO about this and asked him what he could do, after an apology he said nothing. He did indicate as others have that the Police/RCMP can address this, but unless they see the action happening little can be done, your word versus his.

I wish I could be of more help, what happened to me changed where and when I hunt on B-bay.

Very best,

Ian

MichelD
12-23-2007, 11:27 AM
I was there Thursday. Bluebird day, maybe even the same place.

Nobody else around but about three boxes of empties somebody left behind. I picked up a shopping bag full.

Not to hijack this thread, but on the issue of ethics, safety and just general good behaviour, I wish more people would pick up their empties. Sure, nobody sees them out there, but they wash up with the tide and there are sailboarders and bird watchers out there too, and some of them don't like hunters, so we shouldn't give them any more excuses to complain.

martyonthewater
12-23-2007, 12:11 PM
ignorance has no ethnical origin,there are just as many white hunters with terrible ethics and gun safety practices as any other race. With that said, If a person can understand the language well enough to pass the core,fill out the PAL forms and buy the correct ammo, he should understand it well enough to know not to shoot over someones head and not park his butt so close to another hunter that he puts them in danger. Makes me wonder where his barrel was pointed while he waited for the next flock of seagulls to come by

martyonthewater
12-23-2007, 12:13 PM
I hope this "mentor" doesn't teach too many more new hunters the ropes

300WM
12-23-2007, 12:33 PM
I think this where the "informal" firing line would apply. I can't recall if this was stressed during the core course (this was a looooong time ago for me) but, it certainly is discussed when applying for your PAL.

More so, common sense should certainly apply.

islandstalker
12-23-2007, 12:59 PM
yes the informal firing line was dicussed when i took my core last year.

wolverine
12-23-2007, 01:36 PM
I think this where the "informal" firing line would apply. I can't recall if this was stressed during the core course (this was a looooong time ago for me) but, it certainly is discussed when applying for your PAL.

More so, common sense should certainly apply.

Sorry, not to be a smart ass but just how are you going to run and organize an "informal firing line" on the b-bay beach with people that don't know better, want to listen or could care less? And who is going to be the self appointed "informal rangemaster". These guys are out there shooting over your head and it's dangerous the first thing to do is get the hell out of there. Second, drive to the nearest RCMP Detachment and report them for unsafe use of a firearm (but be prepared to go to court because otherwise nothing will come of it) and also for hunting the seagulls. You try an appoint yourself as "range master" out there you are going to be told to pound sand. That stuff is good for the range or impromptu range aka: gravel pit, but IMHO has no place in the hunting field.

I fully agree with the end of your post. Common sense should apply.

sneg
12-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Probably same as driving, some people got DL ,but never bother to learn how to drive. Will report should see similar again, for my own and their good.

fuzzwilkens
12-24-2007, 12:13 AM
sneg that is scary at 10 yards. My friend and I had this happen to us at 30 yards last year and it was not funny at all. We didn't see who it was because we were in tall reeds but we moved well away from them fairly quickly.

I'm of asian descent (and no it wasn't me out there). I grew up in Eastern Canada and I identify with my friends who were born here so its a strange place for me to be in.

I have noticed bad judgement spans all ethnicities as a couple older European guys shot over my head at a distance of 75 yards this year as well as taking 100 yard shots on Snow Geese. Not as scary as hearing the pellets fly right by us at 30 yards last year but not a great feeling nonetheless. I had a hard time communicating with them as their english was pretty weak but tried my best and they were nice guys.

Glad you're ok and I agree, call the CO for the seagulls for sure. That is a lot more surefire than the unsafe firearm route and your word vs theirs.

Wildfoot
12-24-2007, 01:01 AM
I have been wondering something. This is 100% not meant to offend. I have no issues with people who do not fully speak english sharing the woods with me, but are the BC Regs printed in mandarin and the other languages that you can take your CORE and PAL tests in?

I think it is silly if someone can take the test in a language that they are more familiar with if the Province does not provide the rules and regs in these languages also! I have only ever seen the english regs for fishing and hunting. It may be easiest to blame the individual - and really... common sense would be that you dont fire guns toward anything that you cannot risk damaging - but if its a misinterpretation of the law and rules due to the fact that the Province does not provide the materials in the languages that people can easily understand, then I would lay a good chunk of the blame on the gov't.

Just look at the grief the wording of the regs causes us english speakin folks - and we supposedly grew up speaking the same language as those lawyers and gov't officials!

sneg
12-24-2007, 11:46 AM
I agree with Wildfoot,government should make rules available in other languages ,as well as more understandable in English. Specially in view of intentions to increase the number of hunters.
From another hand it is responsibilty of new hunters to learn basic field skills: safe shooting and reasonable killing distances, recognize flying birds and so on. Sure, number of outfitters and instructors would be happy to assist.

Phoneguy
12-24-2007, 03:08 PM
I agree with Wildfoot,government should make rules available in other languages ,as well as more understandable in English. Specially in view of intentions to increase the number of hunters.
From another hand it is responsibilty of new hunters to learn basic field skills: safe shooting and reasonable killing distances, recognize flying birds and so on. Sure, number of outfitters and instructors would be happy to assist.


So you are saying that our taxes should pay to translate into other languages? Sorry, I don't buy that. When I go to other countries where english is not spoken I do not EXPECT the people there to speak english to me. Sure I may APPRECIATE it when they do, I will make a (poor in my case) effort to communicate in the local language. There is already a huge industry translating English documents into French and visa versa to support Canada's two official languages, do we need to add to the tax burden. If people are getting licences without understanding the language that the tests are written in there may be a problem!
I am really fed up with people emigrating here and not trying to learn the language. Do the locals, naturalized or not have to bend over to make themselves understood? If someone CHOOSES to come to CANADA they should at least make the effort to learn the language. I am not saying that an immigrant needs to forget where they came from, that is what makes this an interesting place to live. There should be basic minimums that are expected in language and culture. Why do the locals have to change?

What next? Do we translate a stop sign into Mandrin, Tagalo, Urdu, Spanish, Farsi .......?

Enoughs enough. Quit making excuses. The test was presented and written in english. If the instructor passed the person in another language, and they still can't read the regs who is helping who?

Oh, by the way, I count in my friends many people from other cultures. This is not a rant about immigrants in general, just those who think that Canadians need to change for them, bend a little maybe, new rules....NO.


Oh and Merry Christmas everyone!

sneg
12-24-2007, 05:05 PM
Phoneguy
I do not promote the idea of taxpayers paying for someone's lack of language skills in this case.Hunting is a priviledge,so it can be sponsored from pocket of willing to join the sport ,but having language difficulties . As long as it works for the goal -a safety of hunters/public and considerate and lawful harvesting of wildlife. It is much better that someone passes somehow the exams and wondering in the field without clear idea what is good and what is not.

Phoneguy
12-24-2007, 05:31 PM
I agree with Wildfoot,government should make rules available in other languages ,as well as more understandable in English. Specially in view of intentions to increase the number of hunters.
From another hand it is responsibilty of new hunters to learn basic field skills: safe shooting and reasonable killing distances, recognize flying birds and so on. Sure, number of outfitters and instructors would be happy to assist.


When you stat that "government should make rules available in other languages" don't forget where the money that our government uses comes from. TAXES, yours and mine!

Please don't get me wrong. I am 100% for safety, and education. What irks me is that someone will think its OK and acceptable to hide behind their lack of language skills to make,somehow, everything OK.

I was riding with a co-worker (born in another country) who was quite proud of himself when he related how when he got pulled over by the police for speeding he pretended he didn't understand english to try and get out of a ticket....He had a drivers licence issued in BC....Must have taken the test in english!? I don't know if french is an option here, but that wasn't his first language either!

The senario first presented indicated a lack of a common language as being part of the problem. Hello, if they can't speak the language well enough to have a conversation about gun safety, and they have, through their actions, demonstrated that they have a different fundemental understanding on what is safe, should they have permits to use firearms? That is part of safety in my mind!

Hey I agree with you, it would be nice if the laws were available in a multitude of languages. In the end someone in the GOVERNMENT will have to review those laws in all those languages. Those people draw wages, our taxes...Thats the part that I am resisting. Even if communities volunteer to translate for free, who is going to verify the translation? I am not sure that the CO's should be required to be fluent in all those languages too. And don't forget, the CO's are paid by the government who use our TAX DOLLARS to pay them.

Interesting discussion. It really goes a lot further than just hunting rules.

James