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One Shot
11-21-2007, 03:36 PM
I hijacked this article off another site.

Natives sold bear bladders: Officer

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canad...72976-sun.html (http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007/11/21/4672976-sun.html)


By TRACY MCLAUGHLIN, SPECIAL TO SUN MEDIA


BARRIE -- Three aboriginal hunters are now on trial facing more than 50
offences including the commercial sale of moose, bear and deer meat, as
well as black bear gall bladders.

David Stock, 39, of the Wahta First Nation; Anthony Williams, 32; and
his father George Williams, 55, of the Moose Deer First Nation in the
township of Georgian Bay, north of Orillia, are charged under the Fish
and Wildlife Conservation Act.

Canada has the largest remaining black bear habitat in the world and
their gall bladders are sought after for use in traditional Asian medicine.

Provincial conservation officer John Diebolt told court how he acted
under cover as a real estate agent who also organized game hunts. He
said he stopped at a gas station near the Wahta reserve where a cashier
told him David Stock was the best hunter around.

Diebolt said when he met Stock in his home he offered to take him hunting.

"He told me he hunts whenever and whatever he wants," Diebolt said.

Stock, who is in custody for a trafficking firearms conviction, smiled
and laughed as he sat in the prisoner's box.
__________________

Wildman
11-21-2007, 03:53 PM
Good........

Radar
11-21-2007, 04:52 PM
It will be interesting to see what the punishment is.

Steeleco
11-21-2007, 05:07 PM
It will be interesting to see what the punishment is.

Or isn't??

bruin
11-21-2007, 05:12 PM
Stock, who is in custody for a trafficking firearms conviction, smiled
and laughed as he sat in the prisoner's box.
__________________

Sounds like open contempt for the law. I hope they charge him to the fullest extent.

longwalk
11-21-2007, 06:18 PM
I know for a fact that we have the very same thing going on out in the Chilliwack area. Shooting anything and everything, does, fawns etc.. and heading upcountry for deer and moose and then selling the meat. so much for some of them being stewards of our environment.

Thunderstix
11-21-2007, 06:48 PM
I know for a fact that we have the very same thing going on out in the Chilliwack area. Shooting anything and everything, does, fawns etc.. and heading upcountry for deer and moose and then selling the meat. so much for some of them being stewards of our environment.

Try to reflect a moment and not try to paint them all with the same brush. There are lots of FN that woukld love to see these idiots punished. This no different then us being glad when a newspaper article refers to poachers as such instead of hunters. I highly doubt that the ones "Shooting anything and everything, does, fawns etc.. and heading upcountry for deer and moose and then selling the meat" are claiming are claiming to be stewards of our environment.

Eichelherr
11-21-2007, 06:55 PM
I heard the a similar story about dozens of dead bald-headed eagle carcasses turning up, dumped on reserve. The chief claimed it couldnt be a band member, a few months later the culprits where caught. and yes they were band members. As long as theyre tried in the canadian judicial system, having the tried in a native tribunal is an affront to Canadian sovereignty. thank God not all natives arent like that
________
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newhunterette
11-21-2007, 07:01 PM
no matter what a person's religion, creed, nationality, skin colour, beiefs etc etc a hunter is a hunter (follows the laws and regulations sanctioned to wildlife harvesting) a poacher has nothing to do with hunting grrrrrrrrr makes me so angry how words get interpreted for someone's gain

did I mention makes me angry

sorry
Ali

scoot
11-21-2007, 07:06 PM
Try to reflect a moment and not try to paint them all with the same brush. There are lots of FN that woukld love to see these idiots punished. This no different then us being glad when a newspaper article refers to poachers as such instead of hunters. I highly doubt that the ones "Shooting anything and everything, does, fawns etc.. and heading upcountry for deer and moose and then selling the meat" are claiming are claiming to be stewards of our environment.

I agree, we all know our blood boils when "hunters" are labled many different things we are far from. I assure you nearly all FN wish these guys to pay for their crimes.

puppychow
11-21-2007, 07:41 PM
I have written in the past on this topic. I am asian and do hunt bears, for pepperoni, sausage and hams. I am also into the asian medicinal remedies, but possessing bear gallbladders is illegal. I have never considered keeping the bladders even though my elderly relatives have asked. To me, illegal is defined as against the law. I hope that people do not paint all asians with the same brush. Punish those who break the law regardless of nationality. There has been many media articles that have done exaltly that. Paint a general group with the same brush. Thanks. My 2 cents worth.

Tikka7mm
11-21-2007, 07:52 PM
Hey...I get pretty pissed off with some of the anti native posts on this site. Just because a person who poaches is Native it doesn't make them any worse then your typical caucasion poacher or any other colored person who poaches or religious person etc. A poacher is a poacher is a poacher...period and regardless of skin color or race or religion they should all be charged to the fullest extent of the law. In addition, I have friends who are Native and who hunt and the two who hunt are completely by the books...in fact one of them is a 2nd year law student at UVic and the other is commissioned by the Canadian government for his carvings and art work. Both are two of the best guys I know, both of them are great hunters and they both visit this site regularly!!! If they heard the story about this guy David Stock sure it would piss them off but I'm sure it pisses them off even more and probably upsets them to hear guys "paint them all with the same brush" as Thunderstix states. Remember there are a lot of guys who visit this site who are either First Nations themselves or who have friends that are First Nations or Asian etc. It's ok to have an opinion but have a little respect at the same time. Think about the effects of your comments before you state them. Enough said!

mntman
11-21-2007, 08:17 PM
Hey...I get pretty pissed off with some of the anti native posts on this site. Just because a person who poaches is Native it doesn't make them any worse then your typical caucasion poacher or any other colored person who poaches or religious person etc. A poacher is a poacher is a poacher...period and regardless of skin color or race or religion they should all be charged to the fullest extent of the law. In addition, I have friends who are Native and who hunt and the two who hunt are completely by the books...in fact one of them is a 2nd year law student at UVic and the other is commissioned by the Canadian government for his carvings and art work. Both are two of the best guys I know, both of them are great hunters and they both visit this site regularly!!! If they heard the story about this guy David Stock sure it would piss them off but I'm sure it pisses them off even more and probably upsets them to hear guys "paint them all with the same brush" as Thunderstix states. Remember there are a lot of guys who visit this site who are either First Nations themselves or who have friends that are First Nations or Asian etc. It's ok to have an opinion but have a little respect at the same time. Think about the effects of your comments before you state them. Enough said!


x2 well said Tikka 7mm you took the words right from my mouth

Hilgy
11-21-2007, 10:41 PM
"A poacher is a poacher is a poacher...period and regardless of skin color or race or religion they should all be charged to the fullest extent of the law."

And should also have to follow the law, including bag limits, seasons, ect.

boxhitch
11-21-2007, 11:35 PM
so much for some of them being stewards of our environment.It looks like longwalk is suggesting some of them are not being stewards of our environment. If this is the case, then he is right, whoever 'them' are.

Steeleco
11-22-2007, 07:09 AM
Let not turn this thread into a "race" issue please. Like was said, Poachers come in all types.

sealevel
11-22-2007, 07:47 AM
Thats a fact a poacher comes in all races .... just some get away with it. And we should not paint all natives with the same brush .

... so have you ever heard a native push to have a native poacher sentenced.

if natives don`t like being painted with that brush start doing something about it....

puppychow
11-22-2007, 09:31 AM
Thats a fact a poacher comes in all races .... just some get away with it. And we should not paint all natives with the same brush .

... so have you ever heard a native push to have a native poacher sentenced.

if natives don`t like being painted with that brush start doing something about it....
I think the writer who was native stated that a poacher is a poacher and his nationality is irrelevant. He states that the person should be sentenced to the full extent of the law. Hunters are hunters and want illegal activities halted. Those that do not follow the laws should be prosecuted. This is not a racial issue, its a hunting issue. All hunters are brothers and sisters, lets stick together.

Tikka7mm
11-22-2007, 03:55 PM
Thats a fact a poacher comes in all races .... just some get away with it. And we should not paint all natives with the same brush .

... so have you ever heard a native push to have a native poacher sentenced.

if natives don`t like being painted with that brush start doing something about it....

Sea level what are you implying anyways?? That's the dumbest thing I've read on this site so far and very naive on your part at that. How the hell do you know that there hasn't been a First Nations pushing for the persecution or reprimand of another First Nations for wrong doing? Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen....and who cares if it does anyways! Why does a First Nations have to push to have another First Nations sentenced? THE LAW IS THE LAW REGARDLESS OF SKIN OR RACE...DON'T YOU GET IT!!!! I get a kick out of your comment...”if natives don`t like being painted with that brush start doing something about it"....so Einstein, in your brilliant opinion what should they do and how do you know they haven't already done it or tried to do it. Can you say ignorant! What have you done? It’s pretty easy to sit in front of a computer screen at home and criticize 3 generations of First Nations isn’t it? Intentional or not that’s how your comment is perceived. Furthermore, your comment is uneducated and offensive on so many levels and detracts from the issue of what this thread should be about and that is poaching in general not just First Nations who poach. Unfortunately, its ignorant comments like yours that allow for segregation and the ugly arena of racial opportunity to exist. Think before you speak. Look at the world from all angles. Remember Sea level; there are all kinds of people out there who poach not just First Nations. There are also all kinds of people out there who have friends that are First Nations; keep negative comments like the one you made here to yourself. Second, do your self a favour; practice some due diligence, educate yourself and get all the facts before you begin to comment on something you know absolutely nothing about! Just because you read something in the newspaper or see it on some website or you heard it on the news doesn’t mean that it’s always true.

Mr. Dean
11-22-2007, 04:28 PM
Thats a fact a poacher comes in all races .... just some get away with it. And we should not paint all natives with the same brush .

... so have you ever heard a native push to have a native poacher sentenced.

if natives don`t like being painted with that brush start doing something about it....

Yes, I have.

Now put it to rest and quit the crap tossing. :-?

Islandeer
11-22-2007, 05:02 PM
I think there is a perception that some poachers are being aquited of their crimes because their activities are deemed to be for cultural purposes. Hopefully in this instance the laws of the land will punish these individuals without predujice.

oldtimer
11-23-2007, 08:49 PM
THE LAW IS THE LAW REGARDLESS OF SKIN OR RACE...DON'T YOU GET IT!!! I think this is the point some people don't believe Tikka7mm. There are different laws being applied across this country.
I would argue that a first nation person charged with poaching will have a much better chance of getting off than I will plus I will have to pay my own legal fees. So your quote of the Law being the Law regardless of skin or race is admirable it is percieved that it is not always administered this way. Mike

Tikka7mm
11-23-2007, 10:59 PM
THE LAW IS THE LAW REGARDLESS OF SKIN OR RACE...DON'T YOU GET IT!!! I think this is the point some people don't believe Tikka7mm. There are different laws being applied across this country.
I would argue that a first nation person charged with poaching will have a much better chance of getting off than I will plus I will have to pay my own legal fees. So your quote of the Law being the Law regardless of skin or race is admirable it is percieved that it is not always administered this way. Mike

Fair enough old timer. I can appreciate your point of view. Where my frustration lies is with people who generalize because they don't know. I don't like it either when I hear about First Nations Poaching and yes I too feel as though sometimes there are leniencies granted to FN's that shouldn't be. But you and I weren't around 100 years ago either when they amended the Indian Act. A lot of people don't even know what the Iindian Act is or when it was amended or who even amended it. We also weren't there when the Canadian gov't forcefully encouraged the assimilation of Aboriginal people into white society and allowed companies to expropriate reserve land for roads and railways etc. without any approval from FN's. FN's resistance meant denial of funds and any means to succeed so basically this meant complete FN's repression. I could go on and on. The common view is that FN's owe us something when in fact it is them who were here long before us. So yeah, they do deserve a break. Just because leniencies are granted to FN's doesn't mean that all FN's take advantage in fact some, not all, but some work harder. The sad thing is that FN's have only really had 3 generations to become assimilated. People don't realize that FN's way of life was 180 degrees different not too long ago. So yes Oldtimer I appreciate your opinion but I don't completley agree with it. Just my opinion.

Browningmirage
11-24-2007, 08:35 AM
Fair enough old timer. I can appreciate your point of view. Where my frustration lies is with people who generalize because they don't know. I don't like it either when I hear about First Nations Poaching and yes I too feel as though sometimes there are leniencies granted to FN's that shouldn't be. But you and I weren't around 100 years ago either when they amended the Indian Act. A lot of people don't even know what the Iindian Act is or when it was amended or who even amended it. We also weren't there when the Canadian gov't forcefully encouraged the assimilation of Aboriginal people into white society and allowed companies to expropriate reserve land for roads and railways etc. without any approval from FN's. FN's resistance meant denial of funds and any means to succeed so basically this meant complete FN's repression. I could go on and on. The common view is that FN's owe us something when in fact it is them who were here long before us. So yeah, they do deserve a break. Just because leniencies are granted to FN's doesn't mean that all FN's take advantage in fact some, not all, but some work harder. The sad thing is that FN's have only really had 3 generations to become assimilated. People don't realize that FN's way of life was 180 degrees different not too long ago. So yes Oldtimer I appreciate your opinion but I don't completley agree with it. Just my opinion.

So heres a question...how long do we go about "making up for past mistakes"?

How long will it take to realize that making up for past mistakes is leaving them in the past?

As for painting them with a broad brush...that could easily have been a misinterperetation on many peoples parts. I am pretty sure we are all in agreement that there are many many many FN that are good people, i dont think anyone will dispute that. Them can easily point to the two or three individuals.

Tikka7mm
11-24-2007, 01:16 PM
So heres a question...how long do we go about "making up for past mistakes"?

How long will it take to realize that making up for past mistakes is leaving them in the past?

As for painting them with a broad brush...that could easily have been a misinterperetation on many peoples parts. I am pretty sure we are all in agreement that there are many many many FN that are good people, i dont think anyone will dispute that. Them can easily point to the two or three individuals.

I think I'm going to let this one be. I agree with you Browningmirage to an extent. This is a vast subject that could be debated for a long time. There are many valid opinions on this topic most of which are based on personal experience. I'll just leave it at that.

Not everyone is going to agree all of the time...that's just the way she goes.

The Hermit
11-24-2007, 02:09 PM
I say we all chip in and buy HIS gall bladder! I'm in for $5!!

Tikka7mm
11-24-2007, 03:12 PM
I say we all chip in and buy HIS gall bladder! I'm in for $5!!

lol...sounds good to me. I'm in as well.

Browningmirage
11-24-2007, 05:42 PM
I think I'm going to let this one be. I agree with you Browningmirage to an extent. This is a vast subject that could be debated for a long time. There are many valid opinions on this topic most of which are based on personal experience. I'll just leave it at that.

Not everyone is going to agree all of the time...that's just the way she goes.


Oh hell i understand that. This has been done several times before, people get banned pretty much every time because someone gets too revved up to think straight and start calling people some pretty interesting stuff.

My thoughts (back to original post) is that the guys that were caught should not have their native rights back (see, they violated them by selling wild game; conducted themselves in a unacceptable manner) to food fish and game. They (and speaking of these two individuals, and any other individuals who have been caught doing this, not painting the broad brush) have shown that they do not need fish and game for food, they would rather sell it. Why should they continue to be entitled to abuse the system?

I have a hard time dealing with the racism dealt out by the government. One group of people allowed to carry out their actions in a manner that is governed by a different set of rules based on their skin colour and background constitutes a racist policy...one that is unfair to all other peoples of Canada.
I can deal with (not agree or accept or support) these racist rules as long as the people who take advantage of them do so in a legal manner. Once they have crossed that line however, i see no reason to give these individuals the opportunity to abuse the system again and again.

nativehunter
11-24-2007, 05:57 PM
My thoughts (back to original post) is that the guys that were caught should not have their native rights back (see, they violated them by selling wild game; conducted themselves in a unacceptable manner) to food fish and game. They (and speaking of these two individuals, and any other individuals who have been caught doing this, not painting the broad brush) have shown that they do not need fish and game for food, they would rather sell it. Why should they continue to be entitled to abuse the system?


hmmm, sounds like a good idea to me.

Will
11-24-2007, 06:26 PM
Let not turn this thread into a "race" issue please. Like was said, Poachers come in all types.
This thread began as a Race issue purely by it's title.........
"Natives Sold Bear Bladders & Meat"

Should have just said "Poachers Sold Bear Bladders & Meat" ;)

It's a shame that there are always some that take advantage of any "special rights" given to them............Glad the Poachers were charged.

Browningmirage
11-24-2007, 07:21 PM
Should have just said "Poachers Sold Bear Bladders & Meat"

Except that wont get any attention.

People are happy to jump on the bandwagon of "lets blame natives". Although wrong, the tensions evident there are a direct result of shortchanging by racist government and laws. Sure the natives dont deserve to be painted by the broad brush, but it is a direct result of the government and their laws, and as such, people are happy to say "oh jeez they are at it again". You see it all the time in newspapers "First nations (FN) sell food fish", "FN caught poaching" etc.


hmmm, sounds like a good idea to me. Did we just agree????


Poachers should have their nuts cut off...

Tikka7mm
11-25-2007, 02:29 PM
Oh hell i understand that. This has been done several times before, people get banned pretty much every time because someone gets too revved up to think straight and start calling people some pretty interesting stuff.

My thoughts (back to original post) is that the guys that were caught should not have their native rights back (see, they violated them by selling wild game; conducted themselves in a unacceptable manner) to food fish and game. They (and speaking of these two individuals, and any other individuals who have been caught doing this, not painting the broad brush) have shown that they do not need fish and game for food, they would rather sell it. Why should they continue to be entitled to abuse the system?

I have a hard time dealing with the racism dealt out by the government. One group of people allowed to carry out their actions in a manner that is governed by a different set of rules based on their skin colour and background constitutes a racist policy...one that is unfair to all other peoples of Canada.
I can deal with (not agree or accept or support) these racist rules as long as the people who take advantage of them do so in a legal manner. Once they have crossed that line however, i see no reason to give these individuals the opportunity to abuse the system again and again.

Fair enough.