Prop vs Jet

[Redthies]

So I’m planning to buy a new Jon boat that is a little bigger than what I currently have. Looking at a 1754 that I would rig with either a 60/40 jet or a 50 prop. I have 3 dogs and two humans to float, so need the space. It will mostly be a lake fishing rig, but I plan on continuing with my duck hunting exploits. For those of you that hunt the marsh, would you bother with a jet? In the future, I might want to play in the rivers too, but that’s not a priority as of today. I know jets are less efficient and less maneuverable than props, but I don’t want to be limited in the future.

If any of you have owned both, what would you do? I also have a 1436 flat bottom with a 9.9 that I could wiggle into the marsh.

[fuzzybiscuit]

If you want to run in marshy conditions a jet may not be the best choice. They tend to suck everything up and plug the jet, especially with the smaller pumps. A Merc factory jet runs a bigger pump than a 60/40 Yammy so it may be a better choice if you go the jet route.

Have you ever checked out a mud motor like a Mud Buddy or Pro Drive? Other than being loud they can really handle marshy conditions and are better on fuel than a jet. I’ve seen a couple used in rivers around here and they do well with a skeg rock guard.

[Brew]

Take a look at a Jon boat with a tunnel hull and run a prop. Then you can have a bit of both worlds

[Redthies]

I’m starting to lean towards prop anyway, as I can trim up, and make do. It would be nice to be able to try a jet before I drop $10k on a motor, but that’s unlikely. The hull is a regular mod-v and that isn’t going to change.

[labguy]

Tried them all. The most versatile for reeds, shallow water etc. is a Mud Buddy short shaft. The tiller set up is easy to trim in shallow or marshy areas but drops down when you need to run in deeper water. I get 25 MPH on a 16/48 welded Jon boat with 2 dogs, 2 men, and lots of gear.

There is a learning curve with these motors but once you get the hang of it, it’s a piece of cake. I changed from a prop, to a jet to a Mud motor. The later works best.

[Redthies]

Tried them all. The most versatile for reeds, shallow water etc. is a Mud Buddy short shaft. The tiller set up is easy to trim in shallow or marshy areas but drops down when you need to run in deeper water. I get 25 MPH on a 16/48 welded Jon boat with 2 dogs, 2 men, and lots of gear.

There is a learning curve with these motors but once you get the hang of it, it’s a piece of cake. I changed from a prop, to a jet to a Mud motor. The later works best.

And does this all somehow work for lakes too?

[fuzzybiscuit]

And does this all somehow work for lakes too?

They work in all conditions. They are limited to smaller boats but work great for 14-17’ punts.

[labguy]

And does this all somehow work for lakes too?

Yes. At least it does for my purposes. Towed quite a few people (200 lbs.) on tubes and used it to get to “boat only” beaches but never used it for fishing although a friend with a 17/60 uses his with a decent electric motor for fly casting and trolling.

Like I said…..I started with a 40 hp prop, then a jet drive and ended up with a 35 hp Mud Buddy. Wasted quite a bit of money trading each one out when it didn’t function quite the way I wanted. The Mud Buddy worked the best for me.

[Redthies]

Those are cool motors for sure, but I think overkill for me. I will start with a 50 hp prop I have decided. That’s the max power rating for my boat, so at least I’m getting THAT right;)

Thanks for the input guys!

[Redthies]

Done deal. Boat paid for cash. Motor ordered. We’ll see how long it takes for both to get here. Hoping for mid October, but it might be a bit later.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Nice. What did you end up getting.

[Arctic Lake]

Yes interested in what you purchased for a boat and motor ?
Arctic Lake

[Arctic Lake]

Concerning the Mud Buddy motors I see that some are powered by Briggs and Stratton motors , I thought B&S went out of business ? Or are they back again ? What about parts availability ?
Thanks
Arctic Lake

[ElectricDyck]

Is both an option? I'm thinking of getting a prop for my 80 factory jet...would be awesome for ocean and lake adventures...not supposed to take that long to swap out..kinda like a stihl combi?

[fuzzybiscuit]

Is both an option? I'm thinking of getting a prop for my 80 factory jet...would be awesome for ocean and lake adventures...not supposed to take that long to swap out..kinda like a stihl combi?

Swapping the pump for a leg doesn’t take long. Setting up the shifter to work properly takes a bit of time.

[Redthies]

Swapping the pump for a leg doesn’t take long. Setting up the shifter to work properly takes a bit of time.

And I bet the height difference would be an issue. If you could get your motor where both worked with the power head at the same height that would be awesome.

[Redthies]

Nice. What did you end up getting.

Boat is a Tracker Grizzly 1754 and Merc 50 with electric start, power tilt/trim and heated tiller handle for the winter duck hunting. I’m doing the bare Jon instead of the side console as I want all the cockpit space for the 3 dogs. Going to keep it simple to start. Nav lights, bilge pump, couple of seats on the rear bench and rod holders. I used to build boats for Campion when I was a young guy (16.5’ and 21’ fishing boats), so I know what I want and how to do it. I have a custom high clearance trailer I built for my current 14’ Tracker so I will just move the winch post and fit it to the new boat.

I looked at Lowe, Lund and G3, but none of those brands are available (Lund is not even offering any Jons for 2022 and have removed their whole Jon section from their dealer order page), and if you COULD get one, the similar size to mine runs around $12,000 for the bare hull. My boat cost $6600. The construction is nearly identical, angles are better on the Tracker, there is texture in the powder coat and Tracker has a lifetime structural warranty. The Tracker has great lockable storage too.

I’m guessing it will hit 40 mph with a 50 hp on it too. Way more than I need, but the 40 and 50 use the same block (so does the 60), and it was only about $900 more so I figured I’d future proof it for some heavy load potential.

[Redthies]

I should add that I was given a 17’ center console bay boat that needed a bunch of maintenance for free. I fixed it up and then we found the 80 hp motor was basically flat lining. My Merc dealer client took a look and said they could possibly resurrect it for a couple of grand, but there was no real chance that it would ever truly be reliable. That’s not what I wanted, and the boat was not my first choice by a long shot. I put the thing on CL with its issues disclosed and had a pack of guys on it fairly quickly. I sold it for $190 less than the 1754 hull cost, so I’m basically getting a free hull and buying a motor. The long wait may kill me...

[emerson]

I had an 1860 tiller with a 50/35 Tohatsu jet. Boat was 660#, motor 196#. 2 guys was good, stainless impeller and new wear ring saved a lot of fuel. Planing around 30. It needed a tunnel and planning pods and thicker bottom (was 0.100”). The power was barely enough though. O/b quickly get expensive and heavy for what they provide power wise. A 90/70 would have fit my boat perfectly, but $$$.

[Dutch]

Is both an option? I'm thinking of getting a prop for my 80 factory jet...would be awesome for ocean and lake adventures...not supposed to take that long to swap out..kinda like a stihl combi?
Have to ask why would you swap to a prop? Fuel? or? not being sarcastic but am wondering as everything that I know of high speed commercially is using jets.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Have to ask why would you swap to a prop? Fuel? or? not being sarcastic but am wondering as everything that I know of high speed commercially is using jets.

There are benefits to using a prop motor if all your in is deep water. I’ve heard of guys that are in the lower mainland for instance running a jet most the year for any of the smaller rivers or even the Fraser but then switching to a prop leg when fishing gets good out on the ocean. 1/3 less fuel when running the same speed but 1/3 more power when you need it, quieter, able to run rough water without cavitation, can troll with it and still have low speed steering.

It’s a bit of work switching over but once you’ve done it a couple times it’s not bad.

[Redthies]

The trolling/low speed steering is one of the main reasons I went prop. I asked three of the Thunderjet dealers staff (who all have jets and prop boats) and who know me, what they would do for my use. All three said without hesitation “prop”. Both my long term duck hunting buddies who grew up in the Ladner marshes said “prop”. My “cool guy” mentality still says jet, but my practical “adult” side says listen to the people with experience and who know how I will use the boat. Damn practicallities...

Maybe I’ll buy a jet pump one day and start the swap regimen.

[Redthies]

So you don’t need a jet to run skinny water apparently. Just a jack plate and cavitation plate. He shows his setup at the start, but the real run starts at the 5:00 point. They run about 6-8” of water at around 40 mph in a prop driven boat...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=298&v=IHEfnse9oRM&feature=emb_title (https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=298&v=IHEfnse9oRM&feature=emb_title)

[Ride Red]

So you don’t need a jet to run skinny water apparently. Just a jack plate and cavitation plate. He shows his setup at the start, but the real run starts at the 5:00 point. They run about 6-8” of water at around 40 mph in a prop driven boat...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=298&v=IHEfnse9oRM&feature=emb_title (https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=298&v=IHEfnse9oRM&feature=emb_title)

There’s a big difference running tidal flats vs running boney rivers where the next rock/stump/log could potentially tear your leg off or just destroy your prop. The video also shows this motor riding high with the ride plate way above the water. The cooling intakes are below this level in cavitated water and I’d be suspect to how much cooling that motor is receiving.

[Redthies]

You noticed it’s a tunnel hull, right? I’m sure that helps a bit, but I’m in no way suggesting I’m headed that direction. I just thought some might get a kick out of the video.

I’ve been reading where some are running their prop engines with the cavitation plate about 1-1.5” above the bottom of the hull instead of even with it. Apparently that works just fine, and if I feel the need, I may shift my motor up a hole or two and see how it goes, but in the end, for my lower speed forays into the Fraser mouth channels I’ll be in for the immediate future, the power tilt button will likely be all the help I need.

[Ride Red]

You noticed it’s a tunnel hull, right? I’m sure that helps a bit, but I’m in no way suggesting I’m headed that direction. I just thought some might get a kick out of the video.

I’ve been reading where some are running their prop engines with the cavitation plate about 1-1.5” above the bottom of the hull instead of even with it. Apparently that works just fine, and if I feel the need, I may shift my motor up a hole or two and see how it goes, but in the end, for my lower speed forays into the Fraser mouth channels I’ll be in for the immediate future, the power tilt button will likely be all the help I need.

Tunnel hulls were designed to support the use of jet outboards, not props.

[fuzzybiscuit]

There was a guy on here, Kudu was his handle, a few years back that ran a tunnel hull with a prop motor. He claimed that he could go in less water than a similar outboard jet. I can’t say as I ever bought his claims completely but it would be a good compromise for the kind of water the OP is running.

Small outboard jets really hate weeds. Prop motors hate rocks. The answer is actually quite simple. A guy needs a couple different boats.

[Ride Red]

There was a guy on here, Kudu was his handle, a few years back that ran a tunnel hull with a prop motor. He claimed that he could go in less water than a similar outboard jet. I can’t say as I ever bought his claims completely but it would be a good compromise for the kind of water the OP is running.

Small outboard jets really hate weeds. Prop motors hate rocks. The answer is actually quite simple. A guy needs a couple different boats.

That’s a great claim, wonder what’s left of that bottom end now.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Tunnel hulls were designed to support the use of jet outboards, not props.

There are two different kinds of tunnel hulls and one supports the use of an outboard jet and the other a outboard prop motor. The jet model has a tunnel only 4” or so high, whereas the prop tunnel hull is a lot deeper and the motor is put on a Jack plate. The motor is raised until there is cavitation which if designed right is about the time the skeg is even with the bottom of the boat hull.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Double post.

[fuzzybiscuit]

That’s a great claim, wonder what’s left of that bottom end now.

Not much if he tried to go where I go in my Solar 380 with a 25/20 Merc outboard jet.

[Ride Red]

There are two different kinds of tunnel hulls and one supports the use of an outboard jet and the other a outboard prop motor. The jet model has a tunnel only 4” or so high, whereas the prop tunnel hull is a lot deeper and the motor is put on a Jack plate. The motor is raised until there is cavitation which if designed right is about the time the skeg is even with the bottom of the boat hull.

Firefish builds a radius tunnel to concentrate water to both jet and outboard, but water cavitation around the outboard leg creates heating problems (when raised too high) where as the jet has an orifice fed by the impeller for cooling.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Crap. Meant to put this link on here but posted it to another thread. A guy shouldn’t do anything before first coffee in the morning.

Here’s a link to Kudu’s thread on tunnel hull prop boats.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?107938-Anyone-got-an-Alumacraft-1546-Tunnel-boat&p=1525141&highlight=prop+tunnel#post1525141

[Redthies]

Well, it’s all moot anyway, as my 50 prop is in a crate at the dealer, and my hull is scheduled for production now. I don’t have the build date yet, but at least it’s on the schedule. I’m keeping my fingers, toes and eyes crossed that I’ll see it by mid October. I guess I’ll start collecting nav lights, bilge pump etc now since there is light at the end of the tunnel now. I just hope it’s not an oncoming train!

[Redthies]

Crap. Meant to put this link on here but posted it to another thread. A guy shouldn’t do anything before first coffee in the morning.

Here’s a link to Kudu’s thread on tunnel hull prop boats.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?107938-Anyone-got-an-Alumacraft-1546-Tunnel-boat&p=1525141&highlight=prop+tunnel#post1525141

Thanks for the link Fuzzy! I see Kudu hasn’t been around in a loooong time. Too bad I’d love to see his boat if he still has it. And I agree, 2” is a bit of a wild claim for that boat. I’ll be happy to run in 12”...

I have an aluminum boat builder friend who might get his brain picked about adding a prop tunnel to this boat some day. I did chat with the tech who will be hanging my motor (he is one of us hunter type dudes) and he assures me if I mount with the cav plate an inch or so above hull bottom it won’t effect things regarding cooling at all. There is 4” of height adjustment in the engine bracket, so I’ll have him hang it normally, but in the highest holes so I can raise it up if need be.

[fuzzybiscuit]

You would have no issue running in 12” of water with a proper tunnel hull built for a prop. They work quite well and are a great option if you are in weedy conditions and not worried about running super skinny water.

[Redthies]

It’s getting close... Boat is scheduled to load on a truck for the trip north in the next week or two.

[Ride Red]

What boat did you buy? I looked back but didn’t see it.

[Redthies]

1754 Grizzly. Tiller Merc 50 with 4 blade prop and heated grip.

[Ride Red]

It should tear along pretty quick with a 50hp on it. I like the mv hulls as they ride decent even in chop and handle/corner well. My 1448mv with a 20hp rides nice and works well as my fly fishing boat. Is there a spot under the front platform for a fuel tank? I prefer my tank forward when I’m running by myself. Nice looking boat; I’m sure you’ll get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

[Redthies]

It should tear along pretty quick with a 50hp on it. I like the mv hulls as they ride decent even in chop and handle/corner well. My 1448mv with a 20hp rides nice and works well as my fly fishing boat. Is there a spot under the front platform for a fuel tank? I prefer my tank forward when I’m running by myself. Nice looking boat; I’m sure you’ll get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

I have a 1436 flat bottom with 9.9 for the smaller lakes. The new one will be for bigger lakes, the Fraser and maybe dropping a few crab traps by Wreck Beach or?

There is a storage locker up front. I’m for sure putting both batteries up there, along with a 4000 lb ATV winch for dragging it off the beach with the anchor if the tide gets me, etc etc. I was thinking about fuel up there too, but am waiting to see how big my bilge area is. Photos below show where I was going to run cables/wires and at one point I was thinking of fabricating a step with bats and fuel in it at the front, but I’m going to see how much I can get in the locker to keep the floor area as big and clean as possible. I think I’ll be able to fit a 9 gallon tank in the back on the side opposite where I will sit. I’ve got a stack of parts in my shop waiting to get installed. I built a trailer for it too. Going to wait to mount the winch tower/bow roller until the boat is sitting on the bunks. Very excited to get it here and rig it!

https://i.postimg.cc/HsBr7Byd/4-B566365-D07-C-48-A4-9-F84-450359-EB0738.jpg (https://postimg.cc/F7krMbpB)

https://i.postimg.cc/vm6TkySZ/6-F9-D0-A1-B-80-C5-42-E0-8393-806-F91-C45-FF5.jpg (https://postimg.cc/R34vJkBk)

https://i.postimg.cc/NfJ00F30/46630-AE8-233-C-4-F75-86-DF-B26-A9-EDD7-EB0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/D8GhjvyV)

https://i.postimg.cc/hPjSNgXR/AE81-B496-94-F7-4068-9-D8-A-520-B0503-EDBB.jpg (https://postimg.cc/V5xQbx9K)

[Ride Red]

Looks great and will be a fun project. Get some load guides on the trailer for ease of loading. Once you have them you’ll never want to be without them. I built complete new aluminum fenders for my 1448 trailer that have the load guide built into the inside with uhmw on them. Boat slides into the correct position every time, then just tie down and go.
Here’s an interesting wiring video;
https://youtu.be/EFBfz6Xsrbo

These guys are in Mission.
http://www.jseequipment.com/accessories.html

[Redthies]

Looks great and will be a fun project. Get some load guides on the trailer for ease of loading. Once you have them you’ll never want to be without them. I built complete new aluminum fenders for my 1448 trailer that have the load guide built into the inside with uhmw on them. Boat slides into the correct position every time, then just tie down and go.
Here’s an interesting wiring video;
https://youtu.be/EFBfz6Xsrbo

These guys are in Mission.
http://www.jseequipment.com/accessories.html

I had load guides on my 1436 trailer, and will also add them to this one once the hull is on it. I will mount my lights up high on them as well to keep them dry like I did on the other trailer I built. I just have the brackets tacked to the main frame for now. Spare for the trailer and truck will also find a home somewhere on there too. Thanks for 5e links, I will check them out!

i will likely replace my bunk carpet with uhmw at some point too.

[ACB]

Forward fuel tank would be nice, I have a Lowe 1756 Roughneck Side Console with a 90/65 Merc Jet on a jacking plate. The 17 gal fuel tank is under the deck toward the stern where the seating for the controls are, and the batteries are further back toward the stern than that, so lots of weight at the stern ( not a tunnel hull). I'v had to put a splash plate and floatation pods on the stern to deal with the wash from the Jet and the floatation pods made a huge difference as well. I see that Lowe now makes the same boat with a tunnel and a higher stern mounting surface for Jets and floatation pods, would have been nice when I bought my boat. Also thinking a prop bottom end for mine, that thing would fly with 90 horses.

[Redthies]

Yeah, I wanted to want the jet, but it doesn’t make sense for my uses. I may add pods and or a tunnel at some point (my friend owns a custom aluminum boat manufacturing company and can do this in his sleep) if I end up in a scenario where I’m in skinny water regularly.

[Redthies]

@Ride Red, Thanks for the video link. Those guys did the same thing for the 4AWG wire as me. Although I ordered a 25’ set. Even with my discount at Mercury Marine or Lordco, the cheapest for a single 25’ length 4AWG wire was $50 per. The jumper cables were $28 for the HD tinned wire set that is 2 strands with a super heavy coating. I’m really wanting to run both my batteries up front, but for now I may just do the deep cycle up front that will power my winch and trolling motor in fishing season. With the winch, anchor, tools, and possibly a 3 gallon “spare” tank of fuel up front, I think the weight might be fine. I will at least start that way, and have the 6 gallon and smaller cranking battery in the rear. I can always move the second battery later if I need to. I have a thread going on a duck hunting forum and a guy from California is kitting his boat out very similar to what I’m doing, so I’ll post the link below. I’m stealing the 6/3 fuel idea from him instead of buying a new 9 gallon like I planned.

https://www.refugeforums.com/threads/grizzly-1754-“build”.1079405/

[ElectricDyck]

Since this is a prop vs jet thread...I already posted why not both earlier....I think everyone would agree there is no one good boat and if everyone had their druthers we'd all have 5 boats....I finally got my new tunnel jet RIB which seems to be a pretty good all around boat, runs bigger skinny water and cuts waves in windy lakes and ocean..my outboard intake height is perfect, no cavitation, falling edge of intake is 1/2" lower than the boat bottom, super happy..negatives are hard to control at slow speeds like salmon trolling..

Im sourcing a jack plate and a prop for it..best of both worlds..why not both?

[Redthies]

E.D. - post a pic or two of your rig? It sounds great!

[fuzzybiscuit]

Since this is a prop vs jet thread...I already posted why not both earlier....I think everyone would agree there is no one good boat and if everyone had their druthers we'd all have 5 boats....I finally got my new tunnel jet RIB which seems to be a pretty good all around boat, runs bigger skinny water and cuts waves in windy lakes and ocean..my outboard intake height is perfect, no cavitation, falling edge of intake is 1/2" lower than the boat bottom, super happy..negatives are hard to control at slow speeds like salmon trolling..

Im sourcing a jack plate and a prop for it..best of both worlds..why not both?

What motor do you have ED and what RIB did you get?

[ElectricDyck]

I ordered a stryker 470 RIB luckily before prices costs went up on shipping, aluminum etc ...and I had a new 115/80 Mercury outboard on it.

For the price I paid it's an awesome boat and you can overlook the poor chinese craftsmanship....I will eventually do a in depth review on the boat on youtube once I've had it for awhile...Jerod (stryker owner) has very little info online about the RIBs and looking at one at his shop and asking questions really didn't tell me what's under the floor for structure, how well the tunnel works, how shallow it can run, how much boat is in the water when not on plane, how much weight it can plane, top speed, fuel consumption etc..

Every boat is a comprimise but with the deep V to flatter profile progressive hull I think this boat will be pretty good at a few things...If I can switch over to a prop for ocean trips I imagine the boat will be a fair bit faster, way better on fuel, avoid cavitation in big waves and track better for salmon trolling

Im still trying to convince my hunting partners to go 3 ways on a Solar to throw in the front of this boat for when you want to go a bit further..

[Redthies]

My boat has been here for almost 3 weeks now, and I am busy rigging it. Seems to take a lot of time getting all the wiring and plumbing done. Another afternoon or two and it’ll be ready for some hunting.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYFdL9sX/AC67-E4-F9-6911-4-B34-8841-DF12-CDFBD057.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Dm00vzTc)

https://i.postimg.cc/2y6rvXKk/2456-EBDD-FD9-A-4-BD2-98-D9-BA48-F45-E89-E6.jpg (https://postimg.cc/DJt935hH)

https://i.postimg.cc/bvpXkBZ7/81-A0225-B-80-C8-4048-9-D0-C-ACD9-D66-B697-F.jpg (https://postimg.cc/NKJPwb7D)

https://i.postimg.cc/d0VYgfJ8/A488-C1-D8-5-AEF-4-A97-82-F8-7-D26051-FCBF5.jpg (https://postimg.cc/75dd2mG6)

[silveragent]

What are you going to name her? :)

[Redthies]

Not sure yet Keith. There were a few moments in the rigging process where it was fighting me HARD and “Sea You Next Tuesday” was on my mind! :mrgreen:

[silveragent]

LOL I'm sure it's taken