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View Full Version : River Fishing for Coho (Bella Coola)



Rock Doctor
10-25-2007, 11:58 AM
I have put togeather a little fishing clip for those that have been wondering what it's like to fish Coho in the fresh water http://huntshoot.coastangler.com/hunting/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
This was from my trip in early October, fishing was slow for the first few days, but picked up after a day and a half of rain.
Vid turned out pretty good, Enjoy:

Deleted due to unpopular demand.

Browningmirage
10-25-2007, 12:33 PM
did the dolly get bonked?

Browningmirage
10-25-2007, 02:33 PM
im not gonna lie

As a fish tech...who is studying to be a fisheries bio...im unimpressed, and somewhat appalled with the fish handling here.

I only see one person handling the fish with any respect, the rest are just...wow.

Fishing should be like hunting. If you are keeping the fish, dispatch it as soon as possible. Dont grab it by the gills and pose. The lack of respect here just bugs me.

Tarp Man
10-25-2007, 02:47 PM
Browningmirage, that is the first thing that came to mind... I couldn't even watch the video after the first few seconds. I am sorry Rock Doctor, but it was too much. This is the type of behavior and fish handling that is destroying our salmon runs in the Valley. I appreciate your other posts and videos though. As a fisherman trying to set an example of how to handle fish correctly and safely, minimizing mortality on catch and release stocks, I was sickened.

LUCKY
10-25-2007, 02:48 PM
I agree. Let the poor fish spawn! They have come a long way to finish their life cycle and reproduce for our future fishing.


LUCKY

Ddog
10-25-2007, 04:31 PM
glad i am not the only one that didnt appreciate the video.
are you still allowed to use barbs there? i could of sworn it was barbless,but one of the big spawners got the hooked ripped out of his mouth with pliers.

Browningmirage
10-25-2007, 05:33 PM
I agree. Let the poor fish spawn! They have come a long way to finish their life cycle and reproduce for our future fishing.


LUCKY

a fishery, even a river one, when controlled properly is no different than a hunt. When managed properly i see no problem with opening runs up for limited fishing. I do however cringe when i see improper fish handling. Just like if i see a deer wounded, i cringe.

glad to see im not the only one pissy about improper fish handling

Rock Doctor
10-25-2007, 06:08 PM
I don't think it was as bad as some of you might be thinking..........Perhaps edited in BAD TASTE, for that I apologize!
I was just trying to show some excitement

-THERE WERE NO BARBES, checks were made at least once a day (the man obviously felt that a quick twist/jerk out aproach was best in his situation, I did not go ask!)
-MOST fish were were never LANDED or TOUCHED, but released IN THE WATER Sometimes guys get excited when the KNOW they have a nice Silver on, and they back out, hopeing that will help.
-Yes the dolly was Bonked, as soon as the bonker was in hand, as were all fish, I saw, that were kept.
- I do not see a difference in catching a fish half way through its life, or at the end of its life.

RD

Tarp Man
10-25-2007, 07:16 PM
Rock doctor, it is a bit better knowing the fish were killed. It is my problem for assuming those fish were going to be released. That was bmy big concern cause the predicted mortality for those fish would proably be pretty high otherwise. I do appreciate your other offerings on the site.

Jonathan

LUCKY
10-26-2007, 12:59 PM
I also fished the rivers for a couple of years and very much enjoyed it. Until one day I went and found many people fishing the river and landing the fish by dragging them up on the rocks, mishandling them, killing dark colored fish... Basically showing no respect.
I now only fish Steelies in the river.

I personaly hope that one day the regs become no retention in the river. This will help to eliminate the meat fisherman and just leave the sport fisherman who generally practice better C/R techniques.

IMO the difference between catching a fish half way through it's life and at the end of it's life is half way through it's life and in the ocean they are much stronger and have a better chance of survival if returned to the salt water. Also the fish retained are good eating. The river fish start to detereorate once in the fresh water. Those big dark fish are certainly not quality eating.

This is just my opinion and not meant to offend anyone. Maybe I just have a real sour taste from that last outing I had on the river.

LUCKY

newhunterette
10-26-2007, 02:53 PM
Rock Doctor,
I just wanted to tell u personally I thought ur video was done very nicely for the work that goes into editing them and trying to share the best possible footage with others - it was entertaining to see as well as exciting as I know the joys one gets from fishing - I never looked at it as bad form or terrible fish handling and knowing ur integrity I think it was very judgemental on others to even think u would be less than a positive person on the river

some people look at things too literally rather than remembering the person who posted the actual video, picture, joke - it gets tiresome at times

so for me and my husband we enjoyed watching your video and thank you for sharing it

Ali

ps- I adore ur little ones - they make me smile everytime I see u post something with them - when I saw the moose ribs I was like oh perfect for the HBC cover - but some deviant sick minds would think differntly with little ones and no shirts - too bad that society has changed so much in how things are viewed :sad:

Browningmirage
10-26-2007, 04:51 PM
Rock Doctor,
I just wanted to tell u personally I thought ur video was done very nicely for the work that goes into editing them and trying to share the best possible footage with others - it was entertaining to see as well as exciting as I know the joys one gets from fishing - I never looked at it as bad form or terrible fish handling and knowing ur integrity I think it was very judgemental on others to even think u would be less than a positive person on the river

some people look at things too literally rather than remembering the person who posted the actual video, picture, joke - it gets tiresome at times

so for me and my husband we enjoyed watching your video and thank you for sharing it

Ali

ps- I adore ur little ones - they make me smile everytime I see u post something with them - when I saw the moose ribs I was like oh perfect for the HBC cover - but some deviant sick minds would think differntly with little ones and no shirts - too bad that society has changed so much in how things are viewed :sad:


hey hey hey

Just because hes a good guy, doesnt mean his fish handling couldnt be sub standard, i know lots of people who wouldnt hurt a fly, but they lack knowledge in proper fish handling, and as such, they have to be schooled a bit.

And on top of that, to myself anyway he is an internet personality (as i am to you, and most people...), i dont know his kind, how he treats fish etc. All i know is that i saw some pretty nasty handling of the fish (whether or not they were bonked), and i said something about it. Where would the world be if we all thought from what we watched that we must not know the whole story, and everything must be alright.

Ive got nothing against RD, just saw some fish handling i was concerned about and put forward. If i can be assured that the fish grabbed by the gills were killed promptly, then there is no problem, i just hate seeing fish (still alive) grabbed by the gills and held up...bonk it first, then take pictures. If noone comes forward and brings it up, do problems get solved...

We would never walk up to a downed animal (lets say non-lethal shot and still alive) and take pictures of it while it was still alive. Its bad ethics. Why is it ok to do it with fish?

No offence RD, i was just calling something I saw and was concerned about.

newhunterette
10-26-2007, 08:42 PM
hey hey hey

Just because hes a good guy, doesnt mean his fish handling couldnt be sub standard, i know lots of people who wouldnt hurt a fly, but they lack knowledge in proper fish handling, and as such, they have to be schooled a bit.
I agree some people while loving their sport may need guidance and knowledge and those 2 things are available from the experts on this site and for me that is what I consider - "experts" even if u are getting into this for the first time - it is showing an ability to learn and understand

And on top of that, to myself anyway he is an internet personality (as i am to you, and most people...), i dont know his kind, how he treats fish etc. All i know is that i saw some pretty nasty handling of the fish (whether or not they were bonked), and i said something about it. Where would the world be if we all thought from what we watched that we must not know the whole story, and everything must be alright.
Maybe I am naive in thinking the good of people first rather than the bad in a person - I have this thing that if we all have a common ground such as fishing and hunting interests we all have a certain integrity and respect for each other as well as the animals we harvest and the fish we catch whether for food or the enjoyment of catch and release sport fishing

Ive got nothing against RD, just saw some fish handling i was concerned about and put forward. If i can be assured that the fish grabbed by the gills were killed promptly, then there is no problem, i just hate seeing fish (still alive) grabbed by the gills and held up...bonk it first, then take pictures. If noone comes forward and brings it up, do problems get solved...
I just wanted Rockdoctor to know his hard work editing the video and sharing was not a negative experience but something positive - we saw a small portion of his day on the river - and I know people do not always agree on the proper handling or releasing of fish but he was just sharing parts of the day he had

We would never walk up to a downed animal (lets say non-lethal shot and still alive) and take pictures of it while it was still alive. Its bad ethics. Why is it ok to do it with fish?

No offence RD, i was just calling something I saw and was concerned about.
I sent him the messege privately but felt I should post it also even though he was concerned I might get backlashed for it - my objective is never to offend anyone and if I have then I appologize

what is the saying - my .02 worth

Rock Doctor
10-26-2007, 09:09 PM
Browningmirage, let me assure you that the fish were in fact dispached as soon as the bonker was in hand. (although the fish did have to be taken to the bonker) I don't begrudge a guy for a short heasitation on his way to dry ground where he keeps his bat, with his pack. Some of the "pix" that you may have found disturbing, are in fact a "freeze Frame" of a vid, guys were not standing there waiting for pix to be taken.
The only fish I saw pulled up on shore were destined for the Bbq, yes they were picked up by the gills but that was to bonk them.

The thing that I found disturbing on this particular trip was the guys that walked around with colapsible fish gafs, used to pull fish up to themselves while fishing along the river from steep banks, where access to the water was not possible.

No offence taken, I am not perfect, and as half of the people in the clip were people I met on the river, I guess I can't comment on there fish handling training.

Although not my most.....Controversial..... clip to date, it's getting close, so in the interest of maintaining friendly relaitions, I will remove the clip so you guys don't ever have to see it again.

boxhitch
10-26-2007, 09:16 PM
R-D, too bad you had to do that. We appreciate the entertainment quality of your efforts, realizing they are moments of real live happenings. Some like a more sterile atmosphere, and have a low tolerance for reality. too bad.

Nailgunslinger
10-26-2007, 09:42 PM
I thought the video was sweet, made me wanna go fishing. I don't sport fish, I fish for food. If they ate the fish who the hell cares how they landed it. If they release it after manhandling it then i'm sure everyone would agree they are ******ed. I'll watch any fishing vids you post man.

Browningmirage
10-26-2007, 10:07 PM
Browningmirage, let me assure you that the fish were in fact dispached as soon as the bonker was in hand. (although the fish did have to be taken to the bonker) I don't begrudge a guy for a short heasitation on his way to dry ground where he keeps his bat, with his pack. Some of the "pix" that you may have found disturbing, are in fact a "freeze Frame" of a vid, guys were not standing there waiting for pix to be taken.
The only fish I saw pulled up on shore were destined for the Bbq, yes they were picked up by the gills but that was to bonk them.

The thing that I found disturbing on this particular trip was the guys that walked around with colapsible fish gafs, used to pull fish up to themselves while fishing along the river from steep banks, where access to the water was not possible.

No offence taken, I am not perfect, and as half of the people in the clip were people I met on the river, I guess I can't comment on there fish handling training.

Although not my most.....Controversial..... clip to date, it's getting close, so in the interest of maintaining friendly relaitions, I will remove the clip so you guys don't ever have to see it again.

Thank you sir for understanding my point of view...i didnt expect you to not understand it, you do have a pretty good reputation.

Coming from a conservation perspective, (and the fact that i have worked in habitat with fish since i was 13) I understand most aspects of fish, fishing and fish handling. I get a little "protective" over a resource that i have fallen in love with, and hate to see even the slightest misdemeanor towards fish (people who know me understand).

thanks for understanding where i come from. As for the gaffs. If you think they were being used in a "poor" manner, call the COs (or DFO for that matter), they love to hear about that just as much as they like to hear about mammal poachers.

for everyone else wondering about fish handling. except for pike (and the like), avoid the gills. By touching the gills, you are really compromising the survival of fish. Even the gill plates (operculum) should be avoided. As for picking them up, do it in a manner that causes the least stress on the vertebrae, support the belly, and refrain from holding them vertical. When releasing, the best way is to release a fish pointing upstream (dont rock back and forth unless necessary). By pointing upstream, you are providing the maximum amount of fresh water possible.

On top of it all, dont drag it onto dirt unless its being bonked. It wrecks the slime coat, and causes damage to the fish, thus lowering survival. Every fisherman should know and understand these methods.

Once again, just trying to protect the resource i love more than anything.

Browningmirage
10-26-2007, 10:14 PM
R-D, too bad you had to do that. We appreciate the entertainment quality of your efforts, realizing they are moments of real live happenings. Some like a more sterile atmosphere, and have a low tolerance for reality. too bad.


I have no problem with blood guts and gore, having been covered head to toe more than my fair share of times. I just like to see fish being handled properly.

As for reality, what about pitlampers, poachers, theifs, murderers, rapists. Im not putting these in the same category as improper fish handling, however, reality doesnt have to be brutal. Especially where we can control it. We can control how we treat fish (with respect). Why not give it a try.

As for nail gun slinger. So because a pit lamped deer is shot for food, whats the problem. What puts us above animals (term used loosely), is our treatment of more helpless beings (read: fish in hands), if we treat them like dirt, where does that leave us.

newhunterette
10-26-2007, 10:46 PM
Coming from a conservation perspective, (and the fact that i have worked in habitat with fish since i was 13) I understand most aspects of fish, fishing and fish handling. I get a little "protective" over a resource that i have fallen in love with, and hate to see even the slightest misdemeanor towards fish (people who know me understand).

thanks for understanding where i come from. As for the gaffs. If you think they were being used in a "poor" manner, call the COs (or DFO for that matter), they love to hear about that just as much as they like to hear about mammal poachers.

for everyone else wondering about fish handling. except for pike (and the like), avoid the gills. By touching the gills, you are really compromising the survival of fish. Even the gill plates (operculum) should be avoided. As for picking them up, do it in a manner that causes the least stress on the vertebrae, support the belly, and refrain from holding them vertical. When releasing, the best way is to release a fish pointing upstream (dont rock back and forth unless necessary). By pointing upstream, you are providing the maximum amount of fresh water possible.

On top of it all, dont drag it onto dirt unless its being bonked. It wrecks the slime coat, and causes damage to the fish, thus lowering survival. Every fisherman should know and understand these methods.

Once again, just trying to protect the resource i love more than anything.

thanks u so much for the information

and it is very honourable the passion u have for our fishing resources - I know a lot of people who feel the same way you do including myself and my family

the wealth of information and knowledge we pass to each other will eventually get to those who do not understand and soon will

Krico
10-26-2007, 11:09 PM
I also fished the rivers for a couple of years and very much enjoyed it. Until one day I went and found many people fishing the river and landing the fish by dragging them up on the rocks, mishandling them, killing dark colored fish... Basically showing no respect.
I now only fish Steelies in the river.

I personaly hope that one day the regs become no retention in the river. This will help to eliminate the meat fisherman and just leave the sport fisherman who generally practice better C/R techniques.

IMO the difference between catching a fish half way through it's life and at the end of it's life is half way through it's life and in the ocean they are much stronger and have a better chance of survival if returned to the salt water. Also the fish retained are good eating. The river fish start to detereorate once in the fresh water. Those big dark fish are certainly not quality eating.

This is just my opinion and not meant to offend anyone. Maybe I just have a real sour taste from that last outing I had on the river.

LUCKY

I hope it is just a sour taste.
When I hear comments by like those above it really bothers me. Eliminating meat fishermen puts you one very big step closer to having no fishing at all. I don't see how playing 5-10 or more fish in a day is somehow better, or more sportsmanlike, than catching one, bonking it and going home as the meat fishermen would do. You don't know for sure that the fish you release actually will survive, and will go on to spawn, after the stress of being played out long enough to be gently handled and released. I would imagine one of the fish biologists on the site could offer catch and release mortality stats.

I personally do practice catch and release...sometimes. And I fully support it wherever it's instated for conservation reasons. I also enjoy bonking fish I catch and eating them with my family.

It's a little selfish to suggest the rivers be left only to those with the same practices as you. Reminds me of the bowhunters crying for more bow only seasons, when they were the ones who chose to hunt with a bow...

Not trying to offend anyone either. Just my opinion.

Browningmirage
10-26-2007, 11:37 PM
heres an answer to your opinion.

Talking to a DFO fish manager, they figure on around 95% survival when everything is done properly. Working on our rivers, we can generally get it pretty close to 100% (and its proven by counting the numbers of fish going up and down river). How does this compare with meat fishermen...in a river with say 1500 fish coming up it. If every fish was caught and released once, around 1425 fish would survive to move on. This is when people dont know 100% what they are doing. Now lets say that 100 fisherman are fishing this run for "meat". well damn, right away youve got 100 fish less. Now count in the amount of fish "caught and released long line style", they are still stressed, and therefore you still have a "catch and release" mortality (probably close to 99% survival, but still), even though there is no catch and release going on. Factor into the equation some of the techniques that i have witnessed "meat fishermen" use (from snagging to dragging onto the beach where they can still escape), and your mortality will increase even more. Catch and release is a proven management strategy, that is why on many rivers, it is catch and release only, because "meat fishing" has its downfalls.

I also enjoy bonking fish, but i do know how to handle fish in a way that wont hurt them when it comes to releasing. The same cant be said for all fishermen (both meat and catch and release) but generally the catch and release will be more gentle with the fish that they catch, and return them in a way that will increase survival.

Krico
10-27-2007, 08:33 AM
You just reinforced my opinion.

The holier than thou bs attitude I've experienced many times on our rivers is what really bugs me. Some guys fish all day, catching and releasing many fish, with the odd one not surviving (likely less than 95% survival, as everything is not always done properly, as we've all observed.) Then I hear comments about what a savage I am after I bonk the first fish I catch and head home for dinner. I have caught and killed one fish. They have caught and stressed many fish, and more than likely one of the fish they caught will not survive.

No doubt there are some meat fishermen with very poor fish handling techniques. But there are members of the "catch and release only" crowd who need to get off their high horse as well.

BTW I am not an exclusive member to either the "meat fishermen of bc" or the "purists catch and release club of bc." There's room out there for all of us, and I personally hope our rivers do not become the exclusive playground for either side.

Browningmirage
10-27-2007, 10:55 AM
hey dude, you asked for figures, i gave you figures.

And if it is such a BS attitude, then why are many rivers in B.C., and throughout the world catch and release only? Could it possibly be that...Oh wow, catch and release fishing offers lower mortality rates???

Why is it that catch and release is used in scientific studies? Could it possibly be that it causes lower mortality rates?

Almost every single catch and release fisherman i have seen (bar one or two) has known and practiced proper techniques. They dont need to get out of the water to land their fish, and stress is much lower. Its a fact. Get over it.

Right now, you are on a high horse, The thought that meat fisherman provide lower mortalities has been contradicted on many occasions. The fact of the matter is that mortalities caused by meat fishermen are generally higher, that is why when an area is a conservation concern, it may be opened only to catch and release.

As for more rivers being closed to anything but catch and release...Why not. For the past 20 years, salmon stocks have been in decline (not to mention anything about the beautiful steelhead). Why not decrease stress on them just that little bit more (until they can provide good fishing numbers for retention)? Myself, i love fishing, i love eating fish, i love everything about fish. Would i give up fishing period if it meant preserving the animals that mean more to me than anything...Of course i would. Fishing in many places now is a sport. Just like hunting, very few people need the meat, but it is nice to have. If for the sake of the fish, certain methods of fishing have to be cancelled (or fishing cancelled altogether), then so be it. Thats the way it has to be.
be a little more open. Its not about who has more rights. Its about the resource. Are you willing to do what it takes to try and bring it to a healthy state?

Krico
10-27-2007, 11:39 AM
hey dude, you asked for figures, i gave you figures.

And if it is such a BS attitude, then why are many rivers in B.C., and throughout the world catch and release only? Could it possibly be that...Oh wow, catch and release fishing offers lower mortality rates???

Why is it that catch and release is used in scientific studies? Could it possibly be that it causes lower mortality rates?

Almost every single catch and release fisherman i have seen (bar one or two) has known and practiced proper techniques. They dont need to get out of the water to land their fish, and stress is much lower. Its a fact. Get over it.

Right now, you are on a high horse, The thought that meat fisherman provide lower mortalities has been contradicted on many occasions. The fact of the matter is that mortalities caused by meat fishermen are generally higher, that is why when an area is a conservation concern, it may be opened only to catch and release.

As for more rivers being closed to anything but catch and release...Why not. For the past 20 years, salmon stocks have been in decline (not to mention anything about the beautiful steelhead). Why not decrease stress on them just that little bit more (until they can provide good fishing numbers for retention)? Myself, i love fishing, i love eating fish, i love everything about fish. Would i give up fishing period if it meant preserving the animals that mean more to me than anything...Of course i would. Fishing in many places now is a sport. Just like hunting, very few people need the meat, but it is nice to have. If for the sake of the fish, certain methods of fishing have to be cancelled (or fishing cancelled altogether), then so be it. Thats the way it has to be.
be a little more open. Its not about who has more rights. Its about the resource. Are you willing to do what it takes to try and bring it to a healthy state?

Dude I was not arguing with your numbers-in fact I was happy you posted them, and interested to read them.

The b.s. attitude, if you read my post, is in regards to fishermen who choose to catch and release on rivers where retention is allowed, then look down their nose at those who keep a fish. It was not directed at you. I was making a point that some guys out there seem to think they do ZERO damage by catching and releasing countless fish-the numbers you posted proved otherwise.
Obviously catch and release causes lower mortality rates than catch and keep:roll:, nowhere did I post anything to the contrary. Simply that even


As for rivers being catch and release, I also stated earlier in the thread that I was fully in support of those regulations where instated for management purposes. I also support the closure of fisheries where necessary to help fish stocks recover. So to answer your question, yes I am willing to do what it takes.

I'm going to assume the high horse comment was because you thought/read otherwise...Have a nice day:grin:.

Browningmirage
10-27-2007, 01:00 PM
hey bud

The high horse comment wasnt about because i thought i read differently. Its because of this part here


Then I hear comments about what a savage I am after I bonk the first fish I catch and head home for dinner. I have caught and killed one fish.

unless you are the worlds most amazing fishermen, you arent going to have caught just one fish. Factoring in by catch, etc, you can have just as much impact as you would say a catch and release fisherman has...plus you still bonk the one(or whatever your limit is).

All in all though, i think we agree. As long as conservation is the first concern, i have no worries. This thread was started about fishing ethics. we digressed a bit. any comments on ethics?

Krico
10-27-2007, 02:41 PM
One time as I walked down to the run I planned to fish on the Bulkely I passed another fisherman. We spoke briefly, and he informed me he had caught and released over a dozen coho/steelhead already that day. I proceeded to catch "just one," bonk it and head for my hotel. As I passed him again he commented on what a savage I was. This type of thing has happened to me more than once.

Most times I do hook into more than one fish though, hopefully anyways, and I am fully aware of the impact. It's the attitude out there from a small percentage of the fishing community that thinks they somehow have ZERO impact that drives me crazy.

As for the ethics of the video. RD removed it before I had a chance to view it, so I will not comment on it specifically. If a guy plans to retain his catch, I couldn't care less if he chooses to beach the fish, net it, tail it or gaffe it. I do however cringe when I see fish beached in a catch and release only fishery. Some people know no better, and are happy to learn how to properly tail and release fish. Some don't care, and the lack of conservation concern on their part is disgusting IMO.

So yes, I'd say all in all, we do agree.:grin:

LUCKY
10-27-2007, 08:06 PM
I hope it is just a sour taste.
When I hear comments by like those above it really bothers me. Eliminating meat fishermen puts you one very big step closer to having no fishing at all. I don't see how playing 5-10 or more fish in a day is somehow better, or more sportsmanlike, than catching one, bonking it and going home as the meat fishermen would do. You don't know for sure that the fish you release actually will survive, and will go on to spawn, after the stress of being played out long enough to be gently handled and released. I would imagine one of the fish biologists on the site could offer catch and release mortality stats.

I personally do practice catch and release...sometimes. And I fully support it wherever it's instated for conservation reasons. I also enjoy bonking fish I catch and eating them with my family.

It's a little selfish to suggest the rivers be left only to those with the same practices as you. Reminds me of the bowhunters crying for more bow only seasons, when they were the ones who chose to hunt with a bow...

Not trying to offend anyone either. Just my opinion.

Sorry Krico I think I came across wrong. I am not against meat fisherman. I too am a meat fisherman... in the ocean. I have nothing against it. In fact I am a P/T fishing guide.

I just have an opinion against fishing salmon in the rivers. My comment about changing regs was simply to say that I would like to see less or even no pressure on salmon in the rivers as they are at the end of their life cycle and are there to spawn. (There are many species of fish and shell fish with closures through there spawning season... halibut... prawns...) This is a precious resource that needs to be respected.

I do not fish salmon in the river anymore even to catch and release. So I am not trying to be selfish and can understand your point if I was.
My opinion is tainted by what I have seen on the rivers.

LUCKY