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View Full Version : how changes to hunting regs are determined



xcaribooer
12-22-2004, 10:44 PM
Every year there are rule changes in the regulations.So I am assuming that there are meetings held thruout the year to discuss region by region ,zone by zone the reasons for the need to make changes.I was wondering who is at these meetings? , I assume biologists and representitives from guide/outfitters, sportsmen and natives? ect. ARE THE MINUTES OF THESE MEETINGS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC?? I am just curious how it all works and in particular how they determine such exact numbers allowed for moose on leh.When it comes to bag limits, is it a case of counting the animals and saying ok we could safely harvest x-percent of the total? If so, I would like to know what percent do we get after they allow for predation, poaching, logging, welfare hunting, trucks/trains, native harvest, desease ect ect. :-(

(sorry,Meant to put this under the other big game heading for hunting BC)

3kills
12-23-2004, 05:11 AM
for the leh's dont they go by a combantion of the harvest reports we fill out and how many tags were issued the year before???

by the way xcaribooer...well come to the site...

huntersdad
12-23-2004, 07:41 AM
HoHOHo
I too would like to know more of the process. BC has been using LEH hunting for about 35 years and hunting for decades more but, the info doesnt seem to find its way back to the user groups. Funny that the people putting the money into the system are the last to know how it works. I think the gov. likes it that way as there are less hassles for them.

Sorry if I riled anyone ,I eat too much chocolate last night and cant sleep.

bone-collector
12-23-2004, 08:42 AM
I think this will need to be put under polatics soon, as for leh abd numbers of tags its based on a grid count (count number of animals in 1 area and aproximate for the whole area sort of deal, the way I understood it, and no its not to my knowledge a meeting of guides, government etc , guides get the same rules everyone else gets

416
12-23-2004, 09:21 AM
Sustainable levels of the various speices are determined by gov't bioligists, and general seasons/leh's and closures are used to keep the numbers in the desired range. My understanding from talking to the leh branch, is that the majority of their info is supplied by us hunters filling out the harvest questionaires, which are then used to determine the leh numbers, in line with sustainable herd sizes. That is why we see "tentative authortizations" in the leh synopsis. Information of past years animal havested in the different regions are available on the mininstries website......tells everything except the immediate previous year. Infact, just about all the stats about leh program are included there...........
It all sounds good, but the wipe out of the mulie population in our region (eight) a few years back, really make a person wonder how on top of changes in animal populations the ministry is.
For other sources of where to search out information, l would check the bcwf homepage and other provincial outdoor recreational groups.

willyqbc
12-23-2004, 10:20 AM
Ok, here is the process as I understand it to bring about changes to hunting seasons in your area. Members of the BCWF get together for your area and ideas are put forth/discussed etc. Now the members attending this meeting could be you, me, a guide etc. When the members attending a meeting have agreed on a change to the regulations they have regional representatives that then go and put forth the reccomendations at the annual meeting in Victoria. Now it is important to realize that these are only reccomendations and Victoria is under no obligation to accept any of them. In addition to this a group of native representatives also attends this meeting and from what I understand can veto any proposal. So there ya go thats the process as I understand it. So get a group together and join the BCWF, elect your representative and start getting your reccomendations out there!!

Chris

Ridge-Runner
01-01-2005, 11:01 AM
There is a hunting regulation process where the public and representative from consumptive and non-consumptive users discuss up-coming regulation changes. Species in this province are ranked or listed, and some have more importance than others. So depending on the species the process of determining hunting harvest and strategies vary. Grizzlies for instance, are blue listed and the management of them is more intense than white tail deer. Grizzly bears LEH allocations are determined using a mountain block system where all mortality is considered (legal and extra-legal) within a large area (usually larger than management units). The desired harvest is around 6% of the overall population, and the number of female mortality is monitored closely. If the hunter harvest or extra-legals consists mainly of females, you can be reassured the harvest will be readjusted. The opposite is true if desired harvests are not met, the LEH may increase. When this happens, considerations have to be addressed. Was the function of a low harvest due to a low population, weather conditions, inexperienced hunters, etc… and LEH allocations may stay the same to see if future results produce the same.

Moose hunting strategies on the other hand are a lot more dynamic and reflect a whole array of management strategies depending on the desired harvest (trophy, meat, hunter opportunity etc.) and this is where user groups have the greatest influence. The moose population is monitored by the ministry and this is done in various ways. Hunter harvest cards determine time spent/success or average days per kill. Lower harvest rates and longer time spent hunting “may” reflect lower population numbers and the opposite for higher harvests, but these are difficult to interpret accurately. Another way the ministry determines moose population is through aerial moose census and there are various techniques (relative or absolute) depending on funding and how accurately they want it done. A typical moose survey consists over a larger area, this area is then divided into smaller survey blocks. Each block is then determined if it is a Low, Medium, or High based on density,( moose per kilometer). Then a predetermined number of blocks are selected randomly and surveyed depending on accuracy. During the moose survey, several criteria are recorded such as weather conditions, if the moose observed is standing, lying, walking, running, etc. and the estimated percent cover surrounding the moose. This aids in determining a sightability rate, so an overall estimate can be generated. The main idea behind this is if you don’t know the number of moose you missed, you cannot determine the total number. Or, if the sightability rate is determined in a certain area at 50%, then when the survey was completed only half the moose population was observed. Then basically the randomly selected blocks represent the survey area as a whole. This is only a quick and dirty explanation of one method of moose inventory procedure and a lot of factors determine accuracy, and most surveys are funding dependent.

These surveys way heavy on the setting of the hunting regulation and the harvest. Usually a harvest level will be determined, and this can usually be met using different harvest strategies. Determining which desired harvest technique is more of a social issue. User groups may have more opportunity for changing hunting regulations in areas where no surveys have been completed, or surveys have been completed poorly.

The wild card here is the First Nations interests and needs. In my opinion the outfitters LEH allocation is quite different than the resident hunter. The outfitters are based on a three-year allocation, and these allocations are transferable to different hunters. So if a outfitter gets 5 sheep allocations, they may take many hunters out to fill those tags over a three year period. This is reflected in their high harvest rates when compared to resident hunters. Also when new species are put on LEH outfitters usually get their traditional take. This is not to say that outfitters harvest are not adjusted to population densities, its just a different system. There system enables them to book hunter into the future with a carry over of allocations. Which is a completely different system that the resident hunter.


Cheers, RR

Marc
01-01-2005, 11:32 AM
Hey Ridge Runner thanks for the researched explanation. Like you said there are a lot of factors affecting population. Predatation, weather, highway fatalities and hunting all affect wildlife populations. It's not an exact science but in my mind they are doing a good job because there is still lots of animals around to be had.

Marc.

boxhitch
01-02-2005, 10:45 AM
Willy - I agree with the comments about the BCWF. This is by far the largest and most active body in the province, for addressing issues of hunting and fishing. Our membership in the local gun club gives us membership in the BCWF, and it is easy to stay in touch to see the level and targets of lobbying ( I am signed up for auto-newsletters and get almost daily info ) The various regional meetings are open to anyone wanting to debate an issue.
'Ridge runner' says - "The outfitters are based on a three-year allocation, and these allocations are transferable to different hunters. So if a outfitter gets 5 sheep allocations, they may take many hunters out to fill those tags over a three year period. This is reflected in their high harvest rates when compared to resident hunters."
The outfitter I know of, has to use his allocation yearly, with no carry over. Yes he can overbook for a given number of tags, but that boarders on poor business practice, if he has to tell a client that he cannot hunt because of earlier successful hunts.
I also think that the higher success rate has more to do with the intimate knowledge of an area and the infrastrucure which is in place from years of management. I have talked to Resident hunters who had repeated success in an area, but have been hunting the area for numerous trys. Expensive but rewarding.
Back to the topic of regs - does anyone here take exception to any reg in particular ? see new topic.

oldtimer
01-02-2005, 12:13 PM
One small sentence in RR's very good explanation says it all " the first nations are a wild card " and based on what happened in region 5 last year I think they will continue to be a very loud voice that Victoria will appease even when it screws up all the rest of us.