Opinions On Crossbows

[love the woods]

I Hunt With A Pse Nova (60 Lbs) Compound Bow.i Have Recently Aquired A Horton Crossbow.although The Crossbow Is Awesome To Play With I Dont Know The Reaction It Would Get Me If I Came Across Other Hunters In The Bush.i Could Never Put Down My Compound But The Curiosity Of The Crossbow Is Killing Me.what Do You Guys Think,would You Hunt With One?

[3kills]

if i had one sure i would hunt with it...learn ur limitations with it and dont go beyond that like any thing u hunt with...

[willyqbc]

Personally i can't see myself hunting with one, nothing against them ethically or anything like that. The performance from a compound is just so much better than the crossbow. Bowhunting is tough enough without further limiting yourself with a weapon of such limited range IMHO. If and when I want to challenge myself with a 35yd and under weapon i will go to a recurve.

Just my thoughts
Chris

[Thunderstix]

I have never shot one but would like to try. A friend is buying an Excalibur so I will have the chance soon.

[Dirty]

My dad has a tenpoint titan compound crossbow and the thing is sweet. It has a laser dot scope and is dead on. He cas shoot bullseyes at 50yrds +, in my opinion it is only personal preference between hunting with a bow and crossbow. Some people don't get to practice as much as others so a crossbow offers a better choice than a compound.

[leftcoast]

I am kinda into primitive type thinking and by bow preference is a long bow. If I was too move up to an easy shooting bow I would choose crossbow because they are much older than compounds.

But trad bows like longbows and recurves can be very accurate out to 60 yards or so. Practise and a good attitude are the key. Howard Hill and others shot game at 80 yards quite often.

=keith=

[houndogger]

I am with Keith on the Trad gear. I enjoy my longbow and its simplicity. I guess the only way I would shoot a crossbow would be if I was not able to pull a bow. Don't know much about them but what I do know is they have their limits and tuning is very important. Not just the kind of thing ya pull out of the box cause you want to hunt in the bow only zones.

[416]

love the woods..........screw what any one else thinks. It's a legal means of harvesting big game, so why not? The anti's already harass us about the whole "killing"
trip, so what ever we use is unacceptable to them any way, and as for the narrow minded view some of fellow hunters have..........l have never considered their opinions of any value. As some one mentioned "every one has an opinion and an asshole" including me!!! :)

[greybark]

Good then you will know where to put it. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[rrfred]

used to be a serious archer/ bowhunter and used several kinds of archery tackle- and crossbows off and on over the years. a good quality x-bow will deliver the same as a good quallity compound. efficiency is poorer than compounds as there is a very short power stroke. my current x bow is a plain horton, spits the bolt out- 500 grains at 260 FPS, whch matches my buddies compound at 60 lbs- his pushing the same arrow weight at 255 ish. X BOWS are great for the same, sane ranges used for the comparable tackle; they are not long range weapons. 40 yds is the suggested max by numerous manufacturers, stretch a little maybe,; my longest whitetail with an xbow was at 45yds. I much prefer my 50 lb recurve, shooting instinctive and it wrks fine to almost 30 yds if I do my part.

consider:
speed of sound is about 1100 fps give or take, speed of fast x bow/ bow arrrow is 300-320ish/
arrow gets to 40 yds in about 4/10 second due to deceleration, sound is there in 1/10 second,- 3/10 second is a lot of time for a high strung animal to react. at 70 yds the arrow takes about a second, the sound gets there in 1/5 second = app. 3/4 second delay- the "good" shot turns into a miss or bad hit, the really long shots are best left for the 3-d and the archery range.
my two bits/ cheers rrfred

[love the woods]

Thanks For The Feedback.my Buddies Seem To Give Me More Of A Hard Time About It.they All Shoot Compounds.they Say The Scope On A Bow Of Any Kind Is Cheating.think I Know Wich Feedback To Go With.merry Christmas Guys.

[leftcoast]

Hey L.T.W, we hunters are a funny bunch. We are all subjective in our thinking and believe our weapon choice gives us an ethical boost or a truer title of "hunter". We make statements to others that are arrogant and condescending. As long as it is good natured it is all good but in many cases it is not good natured and it divides us.

And the anti,s have a field day.

We are all different and we are all at a different place. Here I am hanging around a hunting forum and I don't like killing. Had my fill of it years ago. But I love the woods and I am a meat eater so I still kill the odd critter.

Anyway, enjoy your crossbow and ignore the rest of us.

=keith=

[Fred]

Thanks For The Feedback.my Buddies Seem To Give Me More Of A Hard Time About It.they All Shoot Compounds.they Say The Scope On A Bow Of Any Kind Is Cheating.think I Know Wich Feedback To Go With.merry Christmas Guys.

It is interesting that most of the "Nay-sayers" that I read about are other bowhunters. IMO,if it has a string,it is a bow and we are all bretheren! Fred

[love the woods]

Hey Leftcoast,well Said!

[Clint_S]

Hey Keith

That's why I hunt with a recurve. I get all that nice time in the woods and since I can never kill anything I never have to deal with all the messy stuff that starts after you make a kill ;)

[leftcoast]

Clint i hear ya! :) I sure love not having a job!

You still got that Fuji digital camera? You have awesome pics of cats in trees and bears.


=keith=

[Nails]

Well it seems to me it is a personal choice. One of my hunting buddies uses a crossbow. I take my bow. We have good time hunting plain and simple.

[Blacktail]

yup

to each his own :wink:

[J_T]

I'm a traditional shooter who considers his effective range to be somewhere between point blank and 25 yards, depending on a number of variables, size of target, angle of target, confidence etc. I continue to enjoy hunting with rifle hunters whose effective range far exceeds my own. It's about attitude, not equipment.

For me, if the projectile isn't hitting the target right, then I assume the equipment is faulty, scope, or tuning etc. With my recurve, if the arrow isn't hitting the target it's one of two reasons. I haven't practised, or my heads not in the game..... it isn't an equipment issue.

In my complex world, I love simplicity.

Having said that I have encountered rifle hunters with the ability to shoot at extreme yardage, and I have encountered crossbow users that have taken game at over 100 yards. WOW! Now, if the crossbow user is hunting in an archery only season, the only concern I might have, is if....... over time, more crossbow users equates into more taking, the impact it might have on a number of things, wildlife numbers, the continuation of the archery season.

JT

[Walksalot]

In my opinion one should hunt with which ever bow one can use proficiently. In all fairness to the animals I could not condem a person for using a crossbow if he or she doesn't have the time to practice to become proficient with any other kind of bow, it is in my opinion a common sense move.

I have seen some incredible traditional shooters on the 3D course but they have taken the time to practice religiously to maintain competency in skill of instinctive shooting. I have seen people using traditional equipent on the 3D course who like the traditonal tackle for it's simplicity but in actuality their proficiency with the traditional equipment leaves something to be desired. The old argument that they shoot better when bearing down on an animal doesn't wash and these people are hunting with this equipment when if they had any respect for the animals they would be using a crossbow. All one has to do is look at the scores at the 3D shoots and the writing is on the wall. I practiced with a recurve for one year and at the end of that year I set a McMenzie deer at 20 yds and flung 30 arrows at it. Ten % were good kill shots and I deemen this totally unacceptable and sold the bow and went back to a compound. The bottom line was I wasn't prepard to make the commitmet to the practice time needed to become proficient with traditional equipment.

Don't think I am just picking on traditional bowhunters as there are compound shooter who have no business carrying a compound bow into the field. They too should be carrying a crossbow. I hope I don't come across like a know-it-all but I am a compound shooter who has and does do the practice to remain proficient with my weapon. If the animal comes within my 30 yd effective range it is probably on the meat pole. I say probably because in any given situation , no matter how proficient a person is with a weapon, things can go south.
If proficiency testing ever become manditory there would be alot of compound and traditional shooters going to a crossbow.

[claudeb]

I shot an elk with mine last fall he made it about 50 ft. before he piled up

I am seeing a lot more crossbow hunters than regular bow hunters i quess its
because their easier to use and you don't have to spend as much time to become proficient as far as tuning I have an excaliber its a recurve there is
nothing to tune it's harder to cock than a compound but there are aids that
work pretty well. the range with the newer crossbows is about the same as
any bow

[Walksalot]

In my last post I insunuated that only people who don't have the time to become proficient with a crossbow should use them and that is an unfair statement. I am sure there are people who simply like the crossbow over any other piece of archery tackle.

[Doug]

It appears to me (I am an Ontario lad) that one may legally bow-hunt in BC during the archery seasons with a crossbow? I had understood that only Ontario permits this - as I know that most jurisdictions do not.

I have been hunting with a crossbow for over twenty years, and I have taken a fair number of deer with crossbows. This year I hunted about forty days with the crossbow, so I do have a bit of practical knowledge about this.

Amongst the very good reasons to hunt with a crossbow, I think two stand out:

1. It does not take as much practice time annually to be competent (and confident) enough to take an animal with a clean shot. Many people cannot commit the roughly forty hours practice time before opening day that a bow-hunter using a compound or traditional bow needs to commit. So if a hunter cannot spend the time to become competent/confident with regular archery equipment, EACH YEAR, they owe it to the game animals to find another solution.

2. There are a number of people who simply do not have the upper body strength, or in some cases mobility, to be able to use regular archery equipment, and for these people the crossbow is a godsend.

BUT let's not kid ourselves, a crossbow is much more limited than a good compound bow, especially in terms of effective range, but also in important activities like stalking. Stalking deer with a crossbow is kind of like swimming with chest waders on, it ain't impossible but it sure is difficult and not too pretty to watch.

In my own case, my eyes aren't worth a fart any more and I moved up to a scoped crossbow a couple seasons ago. For me, this was a logical choice and keeps me able to do a sport I love. If I had to use a compound bow for bow-hunting, I might well have to give it up entirely.

Doug

[greybark]

Hey Walksalot , I agree with your post with one exception. Those Compound and Traditional bowhunters whose archery skills are limited should not ( as you suggest ) be banned to shoot crossbows . They must be aware of their distance limititations and increase their proficiency thru practice and attending 3-d shoots . A good friend of mine who hunts with a longbow limits his shots to 15 yds and gets his WT deer each year.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

[Walksalot]

Hey Walksalot , I agree with your post with one exception. Those Compound and Traditional bowhunters whose archery skills are limited should not ( as you suggest ) be banned to shoot crossbows . They must be aware of their distance limititations and increase their proficiency thru practice and attending 3-d shoots . A good friend of mine who hunts with a longbow limits his shots to 15 yds and gets his WT deer each year.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --
greybark, nowhere in my post do I say they should be forbidden to use a compound or traditional bow.
To limit one shots to 15 yds is admirable as long as he or she can consistently hit the kill zone at 15 yds. The bigger the percentage of arrows out of the kill zone the bigger percentage of animals to potentially get away wounded.

[greybark]

Hey Walksalot , You are right the word banned is wrong and the sentence should state "They too should be carring a crossbow " Obviously I disagree with this premise.

[Onesock]

British Columbia is the only western province that allow's crossbow's in Archery season. In my opinion 95% of crossbow shooters are gun hunters trying to extend their season by 2 weeks. The other 5% are really bowhunters with physical problems that can't shoot a traditional bow or a compound. Crossbows have an unfair advantage in archery season because of not having to draw the bow as the rest of us do. A huge difference once within 20 yards of an animal. Most crossbow hunters do not have the bowhunting knowledge to find a arrow shot animal. I say make bowhunter education mandatory and leave crossbows in the archery season. We would not see another crossbow in the field if this was the case. If a crossbow shooter was so loyal to his sport that he took the bowhunter education course he could hunt along side me anytime. As far as accuracy is concerned I personally feel a compound is far superior to a crossbow. :wink:

[Blacktail]

welcome to the board Onesock

[houndogger]

Hey Onesock,

How do ya purpose a mandatory bowhunter education come into effect?

[leftcoast]

You will have to take my word on the following because i can't find the info again.

There was a study done somewhere in the States (oregon i think) a few years back that showed that 17% of all game shot by archers was wounded and lost. the same study found that rifle hunters wounded and lost 17% of all game shot. So who loses the most game to bad shots?

Tell ya what, the argument that a crossbow is more ethical and shows more respect for the game than a longbow is baloney. A camera is more ethical and shows more respect. guns and bows are out there for one purpose only, to kill. Animals like deer do not have the same emotional or physical response to wounds that we do. Ever seen a wolf or a coyote chewing or eating on live prey?

As far as competence testing goes, we have far to much government in our lives now. We don't need garbage like that. I have dogs that will track wounded game as does mooseman and houndogger and K-1 and others. Call us or follow our example.

I guided for many years and I guided some damn good target shots. State Champions and such. Lots of them guys missed moose at 75 yards. So if it works one way why not the other? Lots of guys shoot better at game than they do at targets because when it is real they get into the zone and all their instincts take over. Same as some guys can't speak to a crowd but can do real well one to one. Basically a competence test will pass the target shooters and leave alot of real hunters out of the picture.

Who is going to decide what the criteria for such a test is? Rifle hunters?

=keith=

[leftcoast]

Mandatory this and mandatory that. government is not doing you any favours. Quit offering to bend over with your pants down. mandatory hunters education has done squat except put money in somebodies pocket. Bambi movies have done more to make hunting safer because less people partake in such a cruel sport. There are lots of idiots out there who have taken the Core thing. Drive around this valley and look at the signs along the road. Slobs are slobs. All the education in the world ain't gonna change that.

=keith=

[Onesock]

Hounddogger: That is the real question. For mandatory bowhunter education to work it has to br available province wide. Two problems: 1) get a governing body to run a program 2) Getting people trained to teach the course. Both of these problems will be difficult to overcome but because of the UBBC problems like this may seem a bit smaller.
Leftcoast: Without some sort of bowhunter education we may loose more bow season's in BC. If we police ourselves and be pro-active the Gov'y will be more likely to stay out of the problem and let us handle it our handle it. No one said anything about a competency test being part of the education program either. That is one thing to stay away from!

[J_T]

First, I will admit, in the 30 years I hunted with a rifle, I have wounded animals and in the 12 years I have bowhunted, I have wounded animals.

Leftcoast, It is important to understand how an arrow and a rifle kill. Regarding your comment:

There was a study done somewhere in the States (oregon i think) a few years back that showed that 17% of all game shot by archers was wounded and lost. the same study found that rifle hunters wounded and lost 17% of all game shot. So who loses the most game to bad shots?


I'm quite sure I don't have to get into the details, however - briefly - an arrow kills through hemorrage causing deadly bleed, and a bullet kills largely by implosion.

The result of a poorly placed bullet and the subsequent wound loss is far greater than the wound loss of an arrow. Last time I spoke with a BC govt biologist on the subject he indicated that rifle data holds a 27% wound loss ratio.

Studies carried out in the states suggest a 13% wound loss ratio for archery (no crossbows).

Additionally:

of the 27% wounded and lost by rifle, 80% eventually succumb to the wound and perish.
of the 13% wounded and lost to an arrow, 80% survive.

While no one likes to make a bad shot, the information above is something to consider.

The United Bowhunters of BC are in the process of putting together a web site that will make these various studies available for everyone to read.

JT

[leftcoast]

Onesock, I think where we differ is I believe hunting to be a right. You must think it is a privledge.

J_T, thanks for better and more updated information. Those figures are definetly something to think about.

A site i used to frequent had a story posted by a bow hunter that is not uncommon. While in a blind he put an arrow through a nice buck that was in the rutt. The deer wheeled and disappeared. Hunter felt sick. A few minutes later the same buck showed up and continued doing whatever he had been doing prior to being shot. the hunter believed he must have missed and was waiting for the right opportunity to shoot again when the buck fell over dead. Basically there was no stress for this deer and obviously no pain.

=keith=

[Marc]

I've seen video of a deer that gets shot throught the neck with an arrow and the deer shakes it off like it was a fly bite and keeps on eating, about 10 seconds later he flops over on the spot.

Marc.

[J_T]

In nature, animals take many wounds that might be equal to getting poked by a stick, or an antler. Getting poked by an arrow isn't much different. I have skinned out goats that show many broken ribs of evidence of the reality of life in nature. I once shot a three legged mule deer. Nature is not easy.

At the same time, many archery shot animals, continue unaware they have been penetrated by an arrow and they peacefully, succumb.

JT

[leftcoast]

J_T, I pnly ever lost one deer and that was a muley that I blew the front leg off of. I was using another mans rifle. He made 19 beds over night, in the snow and by morning he was not bleeding alot. He went down below the snow line and got into some stuff and we lost his trail. That was up in the Deception Mountain area east of 100 Mile. Same deer? :)

=keith=

[Onesock]

Leftcoast: I agree with you that hunting is a right. Have you ever heard of anyone loosing their right's to anything. I have! If we don't show some respect for the right to hunt we will loose it. I feel it is a right to bear arm's, and we are well on the way to loosing those right's. You don't agree with bowhunter education. That is your right. I believe there should be bowhunter education. That is my right. Lets agree to disagree.

[oldtimer]

Onesock..sorry but i have to agree with leftcoast. we don't need any more regulations ,certifications , educations, etc than we already have. The next thing you know we will have to be certified to operate a bow the same way you have to be certified to operate an 10' dinghy with a 5 hp motor. We don't need more regulations.
However i have to state that i think hunting is a privilege that i have earned !!! And because I have earned it ,it is my right to enjoy it.:-o Mike

[greybark]

Hey Oldtimer and Leftcoast . According to provincial legislation hunting is a right which is more then a privilege.

Idealy an archery segment should be included in the core program.

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

[Blacktail]

Unfortunately the new CORE book out has gone back to the old format of having the archery and muzzleloader firearms portions as supplemental info that is neither required to be taught or tested on.

Is this a step back? In my view yes but then again it is run by those in the BCWF and as John Holdstock says " the world is run by those who show up"

I agree that some form of bowhunter education should be mandatory for archers to pursue game but just how that would fit into the grand scheme of things I am not too sure.
The legislation right now states that you must have a Hunter Number in order to obtain a hunting licence and to get that you must succesfully pass the CORE exam which includes a firearms practical.Just how an archery only hunter would accomplish that is a bit of a delemma in that at present he needs to pass the CORE with all its requirements.
In the future who knows how it would work or what legislative changes would need to be adopted to affect a happy medium for all involved.
I think with the inception of the UBBC it is a starting point that will allow a better driving force to affect changes in legislation that will benefit all user groups involved.

The legislative changes and the discussion of archery only areas are a hot topic that have gone on for a long time in this province and will continue for a long time in the future if the people at the table are not shown truthfull data that is unbiased to any user group or for that matter we get some defferent people at the table

[gollum257]

Give them there own season & keep them out of bow season where they belong.