Concern with BCWF and GOABC and hounds

[BlacktailStalker]

Heard a real dirty rumour today that there is supposedly a joint effort to start a motion to end bear hunting with hounds in BC ?????
Yesterday at some meeting.

Is there any truth to this BS ??

[Hidehanger]

I would be neither for or against it at this point. The only hunting behind a dog I have done (besides gamebirds/waterfowl) is rabbit hunting; I recall when I was young that my grandfather used to hunt both deer and bear behind hounds back east. Looking for more info.:
How long is the average chase for bears?
How do you know you are following a boar and not a sow?
I assume they tend to tree like cats, but how many would you tree in a day?
Again, just looking to be better informed on this type of hunting.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The BCWF is run by it's membership. Something like that would have to be proposed and put to it's membership at the AGM.
GOABC on the other hand is not run by its membership.

[fowl language]

sounds to me like someone is stirring it up.

[REMINGTON JIM]

sounds to me like someone is stirring it up.

your a Major in the BCWF - what do you know ? ;-) RJ

[bridger]

Why don't you phone the Fed office and ask?

[limit time]

after bear????? It's onto cougar !

[BlacktailStalker]

Glad to hear all this. Seemed odd for BC.

[limit time]

Just a note ---- I AM ALL FOR HUNTING BEARS AND OTHER GAME WITH DOGS !!!!!!!!!!

[REMINGTON JIM]

Just a note ---- I AM ALL FOR HUNTING BEARS AND OTHER GAME WITH DOGS !!!!!!!!!!


Yup ! mans BEST friend gotta have FUN too ! :wink: RJ

[Elkaholic]

It has been brought to the hound clubs attention here in the EK that yes they do want to try and get rid of bears with dogs.

[J_T]

It has been brought to the hound clubs attention here in the EK that yes they do want to try and get rid of bears with dogs. Any specifics on who 'they' is? Thanks.

[Rackmastr]

Any specifics on who 'they' is? Thanks.

To my best understanding, the COS has raised concerns about the use of dogs while hunting grizzlies specifically.

[KodiakHntr]

What concerns would those be I wonder?

[boxhitch]

Somebody's personal pet peeve maybe. Its not like their have been any dangerous incidents, or have there ?
Remember , bears are predators too

[houndogger]

It would be nice if Mr. BCWF would chime in on black bear hunting with dogs.

[The Dawg]

This is not a BCWF initiative. Its been raised by a couple of CO's in the Koots

[KodiakHntr]

This is not a BCWF initiative. Its been raised by a couple of CO's in the Koots

So what is the concern then? You seem to be familiar with the situation Dawg?

[bearvalley]

This is a proposal from the guides, GOABC, to the PHAAT meeting in Victoria and was discussed on the Wildlife Committee conference call. The committee did not support the proposal.

Hunting for Health not Heads​

Was not the dog issue pertaining only to grizzly bears because they will not tree?
Are you sure the proposal was brought forward by just the "guides"?

[BlacktailStalker]

Sounds like there is possibly more to the story some don't have the kahuna's to come right out and say about the issue or people pushing for this?
Silence is how these things we don't want to happen, happen.

[souwester]

Mr Jack pine savage I realize that there is a lot of resentment towards GOABC on this site,but if you expect houndsmen in BC to believe your post could you please post the outfitters that were pushing for this ?
For sure I would imagine there are some outfitters that don't enjoy competition in their areas or don't like bears being moved around by houndsmen and their dogs,But to suggest that the whole of BC guide industry would push that agenda seems ludicrous to me as its a step down a road that leads to problems with bear hunting in general,not to mention there are numerous outfitters in the province that run both cats and bears with hounds.
Could u please support your statement with some facts for me
thankyou

[300rum700]

The only ones I've heard of that run g bears with dogs are guide outfitters so I highly doubt they are pushing it.

[BlacktailStalker]

Mr Jack pine savage I realize that there is a lot of resentment towards GOABC on this site,but if you expect houndsmen in BC to believe your post could you please post the outfitters that were pushing for this ?
For sure I would imagine there are some outfitters that don't enjoy competition in their areas or don't like bears being moved around by houndsmen and their dogs,But to suggest that the whole of BC guide industry would push that agenda seems ludicrous to me as its a step down a road that leads to problems with bear hunting in general,not to mention there are numerous outfitters in the province that run both cats and bears with hounds.
Could u please support your statement with some facts for me
thankyou

Thank you.
Unless it is factual supported conservation concerns, a loss of any legal hunting method we lose today is just the potential of a beginning of a landslide.
We may all hunt differently but it's important we all hunt in the way we each chose if all are abiding by the rules. Outfitter or not, it all begins or ends with us together or against each other.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I make a good portion of my income running bears with hounds and yes I am a GOABC member. I have heard rumblings about this two years ago and from what I have heard recently it has been moved to the back burner. I know there was one outfitter in particular that has problems with it and apparently the CO's have had some problems in the past.
The latest news is having the whole coast shut down for grizzly hunting. Everyone except the FN outfitters who claim they will issue their own tags and export permits to clients. the interior bears will be next.
BCWF and GOABC need to be working together not fighting!!!!

[Ed George]

BCWF and GOABC need to be working together not fighting!!!!

The GOABC has very little if any support within the BC Wildlife Federation, the back door deals burned that bridge.

Hunting for Health not Heads​

[houndogger]

The GOABC has very little if any support within the BC Wildlife Federation, the back door deals burned that bridge.

Hunting for Health not Heads​

What's the bcwf position on running bears with dogs?

[souwester]

Thanks for Replying Jack Pine,
You are not really answering my question tho,I am personally concerned that the rift between BCWF and GOABC is now so big in part or whole to the allocation issue that I PERSONALLY do not trust the transparency of BCWF on issues that could have a Massive impact on my life.
I am just looking for who my concerns should be directed to....is it really just one outfitter? or is there some other political agenda happening in regards to bear hunting and the BCWF that I should be aware of ?
You will never find a BCWF sticker on my truck anymore,and I am not a "sheep" about to be blindsided and have something I am extremely passionate about taken away without a fight.
Again please if the information can be made public provide me with facts on which particular guideoutfitter and or Cos presented this as I would like to write them a letter.
thank you

[Gateholio]

Thanks for Replying Jack Pine,
You are not really answering my question tho,I am personally concerned that the rift between BCWF and GOABC is now so big in part or whole to the allocation issue that I PERSONALLY do not trust the transparency of BCWF on issues that could have a Massive impact on my life.
I am just looking for who my concerns should be directed to....is it really just one outfitter? or is there some other political agenda happening in regards to bear hunting and the BCWF that I should be aware of ?
You will never find a BCWF sticker on my truck anymore,and I am not a "sheep" about to be blindsided and have something I am extremely passionate about taken away without a fight.
Again please if the information can be made public provide me with facts on which particular guideoutfitter and or Cos presented this as I would like to write them a letter.
thank you


You should contact GOABC

[tuner]

Thanks for Replying Jack Pine,
You are not really answering my question tho,I am personally concerned that the rift between BCWF and GOABC is now so big in part or whole to the allocation issue that I PERSONALLY do not trust the transparency of BCWF on issues that could have a Massive impact on my life.
I am just looking for who my concerns should be directed to....is it really just one outfitter? or is there some other political agenda happening in regards to bear hunting and the BCWF that I should be aware of ?
You will never find a BCWF sticker on my truck anymore,and I am not a "sheep" about to be blindsided and have something I am extremely passionate about taken away without a fight.
Again please if the information can be made public provide me with facts on which particular guideoutfitter and or Cos presented this as I would like to write them a letter.
thank you
Why are you blaming the BCWF for the proposal, the man just explained to you that the proposal was brought forth by a member of the GOABC from the EK, and was not supported by the fed. Perhaps you don't understand who better represents your best interests.

[steveo]

Thanks for Replying Jack Pine,
You are not really answering my question tho,I am personally concerned that the rift between BCWF and GOABC is now so big in part or whole to the allocation issue that I PERSONALLY do not trust the transparency of BCWF on issues that could have a Massive impact on my life.
I am just looking for who my concerns should be directed to....is it really just one outfitter? or is there some other political agenda happening in regards to bear hunting and the BCWF that I should be aware of ?
You will never find a BCWF sticker on my truck anymore,and I am not a "sheep" about to be blindsided and have something I am extremely passionate about taken away without a fight.
Again please if the information can be made public provide me with facts on which particular guideoutfitter and or Cos presented this as I would like to write them a letter.
thank you
Let me understand your post, you don't trust the transparency of BCWF on issues but you are requesting information from members of an internet hunting forum who use fake names. If you belong to a guide outfitter association would you not be entitled to sit in on this meeting and if not would you not have a representative there that would bring forward to your associations membership the minutes of this meeting. If you are a guide you seem very lost on this topic where others on this forum who are guides seem to have a handle on what is going on. I know there is at least one splinter group aside from GOABC and possibly more and I am sure you don't have to belong to an association because you are a guide but why wouldn't you. Welcome to HBC.

[souwester]

Gatehouse ... thanks I did and I am waiting for a reply.

Tuner..... I am well aware of who will best represent my interests ....it is me

Steveo ....Jack pine in his original post sounded like he had firsthand info which is why I proposed the question.There maybe some fake names but there is some staff of BCWF that are big posters here,again,which is why I asked my original question.
Just because I said that I have some personal concerns with BCWF u assume I am "confused" and an outfitter or guide.
The "confused " part maybe debatable but I am neither a guide nor an outfitter,Hence I was not privy to info from this meeting.
But thanks for your "detective" work anyways.
I am just a guy with a pack of dogs that spends more time hunting than most and is concerned about his way of life.
Thanks

[steveo]

Gatehouse ... thanks I did and I am waiting for a reply.

Tuner..... I am well aware of who will best represent my interests ....it is me

Steveo ....Jack pine in his original post sounded like he had firsthand info which is why I proposed the question.There maybe some fake names but there is some staff of BCWF that are big posters here,again,which is why I asked my original question.
Just because I said that I have some personal concerns with BCWF u assume I am "confused" and an outfitter or guide.
The "confused " part maybe debatable but I am neither a guide nor an outfitter,Hence I was not privy to info from this meeting.
But thanks for your "detective" work anyways.
I am just a guy with a pack of dogs that spends more time hunting than most and is concerned about his way of life.
Thanks
No worries, from your bold writings and position you had me convinced you were an outfitter hence my confusion. Also it seemed you had more intimate knowledge of what outfitters do than the average bear. I might have been less confused and assumptive if you introduced yourself and gave a little back story about being a houndsmen and such, just saying. Usually what I have noticed around here is if you are a first time poster on a subject that is outfitter/BCWF based there is a good chance you are a guide. I understand you getting right to the point and like I said welcome to HBC and looking forward to your input.

[BlacktailStalker]

The GOABC has very little if any support within the BC Wildlife Federation, the back door deals burned that bridge.

Hunting for Health not Heads​

Works both ways then. Great attitude.

Lets not allow what bears actually do and what people think they do become an issue ?
Ever hounded a bear ? How many have gone 2-30kms and treed 1-500yds from the initial starting point ? Ridiculous amounts.
Predators keep to somewhat of the same area at different times through out certain areas depending on the time of year.
We all know that. So, when a bear leaves it's Cubs as a defense and protection mechanism, who are the people forgetting the fact they know exactly where they are going and know exactly how to get back to the Cubs?
How many bears have been relocated 2-3 times hundreds of miles away only to be found sitting in the same dumpster 6-7 days later ? Lots, that's why they hardly bother anymore.
The homing instinct of animals has been finely tuned for hundreds of years, clearly there are some specific reasons that have nothing to do with the reasons being used, which are based on emotion and "baby bears".
So beat them with science and facts.
I've caught the same bears from the same spots after doing the same loops 3 times in a week. Why were the Bears back in the same spot? Because they know where and when to find the prime feed at the right time.
Houndinf bears with dogs is not an issue, there isn't a single pack of dogs that can harm a 150lb snipe nosed little sow, if they stay on the ground it's because they have the potential to take your whole pack out quicker than you'd want to see... Ask how I know. Cubs never stay on the ground. More Cubs are orphaned by fools shooting sows who don't wait long enough to see if there is any Cubs in tow or can't I.d Them before the shot.

Now how about the bear parts poaching still going on as frequent as ever and how about the bears shot at night by pitlampers who can't Id ungulates far away in the lights?

[digger dogger]

Works both ways then. Great attitude.

Lets not allow what bears actually do and what people think they do become an issue ?
Ever hounded a bear ? How many have gone 2-30kms and treed 1-500yds from the initial starting point ? Ridiculous amounts.
Predators keep to somewhat of the same area at different times through out certain areas depending on the time of year.
We all know that. So, when a bear leaves it's Cubs as a defense and protection mechanism, who are the people forgetting the fact they know exactly where they are going and know exactly how to get back to the Cubs?
How many bears have been relocated 2-3 times hundreds of miles away only to be found sitting in the same dumpster 6-7 days later ? Lots, that's why they hardly bother anymore.
The homing instinct of animals has been finely tuned for hundreds of years, clearly there are some specific reasons that have nothing to do with the reasons being used, which are based on emotion and "baby bears".
So beat them with science and facts.
I've caught the same bears from the same spots after doing the same loops 3 times in a week. Why were the Bears back in the same spot? Because they know where and when to find the prime feed at the right time.
Houndinf bears with dogs is not an issue, there isn't a single pack of dogs that can harm a 150lb snipe nosed little sow, if they stay on the ground it's because they have the potential to take your whole pack out quicker than you'd want to see... Ask how I know. Cubs never stay on the ground. More Cubs are orphaned by fools shooting sows who don't wait long enough to see if there is any Cubs in tow or can't I.d Them before the shot.

Now how about the bear parts poaching still going on as frequent as ever and how about the bears shot at night by pitlampers who can't Id ungulates far away in the lights?

Well said Andy!

[Fisher-Dude]

There maybe some fake names but there is some staff of BCWF that are big posters here


You've been a member here for 2 days and have 3 posts, yet you boldly make this assertion? How do you come to that conclusion?

Seems a bit odd for a 2 day old, HBC greenhorn to know who the people are behind online aliases, don't you think?

Even a certain well-funded guide outfitter organization knows very little, or nothing, about who is who online, despite their minions who keep tossing bait at certain posters.

<scratches head, draws logical conclusion, nods knowingly>

[souwester]

Yes Fisher-Dude I only have 3 posts......Not 16,000 that sure is something to be proud of !
Im not going to list names but it is surprisingly easy info to get ....people like to talk.
I think I have been reasonably respectful with what I have posted on this thread,Im allowed to have an opinion same as you are.
I would like to try and keep this thread to topic.

If u want to start another thread accusing me of being an outfitter or "minion" fly at it man.

I'm pretty thick skinned so make sure your accusations or any insults u have are good ones ....

Thanks for your input

[houndogger]

Yes Fisher-Dude I only have 3 posts......Not 16,000 that sure is something to be proud of !
Im not going to list names but it is surprisingly easy info to get ....people like to talk.
I think I have been reasonably respectful with what I have posted on this thread,Im allowed to have an opinion same as you are.
I would like to try and keep this thread to topic.

If u want to start another thread accusing me of being an outfitter or "minion" fly at it man.

I'm pretty thick skinned so make sure your accusations or any insults u have are good ones ....

Thanks for your input

Bcwf give you a answer yet?

[souwester]

Thanks for the reply,at least you are capable of writing an intelligent response instead of just accusing me of something....
Is the resident priority goup that is part of BCWF represented at these meetings ?and if so would any law changes or concerns put forward by them be subject to member voting as your claiming about BCWF or is it its own entity?
thanks

[souwester]

Thanks for trying to answer my questions.
I sure hope hunters understand that banning predator hunting of any kind and that includes grizzly hunting,regardless of weather it includes hounds or not,sure isn't going to help produce more ungulates for there to be allocation arguments over.

[souwester]

Jackpine I cant answer the "transparency" question without beginning to name people which I don't intend to do.
It also deserves its own thread as it is way off topic to the original hound question.
In a nutshell I don't support or trust some political allies the BCWF appears to have made or used since the allocation issue began.This is my own PERSONAL opinion.
I also believe that the allocation issue will end up causing more harm to hunter opportunities down the road than most people realize,and this will not be the fault of ONLY the GOABC which so many here are so quick to jump on.

[srupp]

[QUOTblack bearsn hillbilly;1717296]I make a good portion of my income running bears with hounds and yes I am a GOABC member. I have heard rumblings about this two years ago and from what I have heard recently it has been moved to the back burner. I know there was one outfitter in particular that has problems with it and apparently the CO's have had some problems in the past.
The latest news is having the whole coast shut down for grizzly hunting. Everyone except the FN outfitters who claim they will issue their own tags and export permits to clients. the interior bears will be next.
BCWF and GOABC need to be working together not fighting!!!![/QUOTE]

Perhaps gentlemen the second part of CH post about grizzly being shut down along the entire BC coastline..some of the highest concentrations of GRIZZLIES. HUGE first step of closing it all down..first coastal grizzlies, then interior is a much smaller step..
Then bkackbears..maybe that small 600 BC dall sheep population..etc etc etc

Thanks CH
GOOD INTELL

Srupp

[325 wsm]

Srupp and Souwester. I dont think it matters how many times we say it or how big we make the letters. There are certain people here who will always feel the GOABC is there biggest and only threat.
Well boys and girls for those of you who cant get up and stop crying after the little bitch slap the GOABC gave you you sure as hell wont stand a chance when the Fns/govt deals hit you.
As hard as it may be for some of you to comprehend the BCWF and the GOABC need to become allies to win the upcoming fights.

[GoatGuy]

Perhaps gentlemen the second part of CH post about grizzly being shut down along the entire BC coastline..some of the highest concentrations of GRIZZLIES. HUGE first step of closing it all down..first coastal grizzlies, then interior is a much smaller step..
Then bkackbears..maybe that small 600 BC dall sheep population..etc etc etc

Thanks CH
GOOD INTELL

Srupp


This is fiction.........

[GoatGuy]

Hunting grizzly bears with hounds has been brought up for the last couple of years out of southeast BC.

The issue will be turned over to grizzly bear ecologists (the scientists) to deal with.

As hunters we need to ensure we are representing our interests in an ethical manner. The video of the grizzly killed in AK that was all over the news last summer, the "guide of the year" issue and a number of others are hurting our 'common interest'. Putting videos online of hunting that is not consistent with hunting's image is a bad decision whether it is a grizzly hunter, deer hunter, or a houndsman.

[souwester]

This is fiction.........

how do I get to sit in at a PHAAT meeting? so I can see first hand what is fiction.

[GoatGuy]

how do I get to sit in at a PHAAT meeting? so I can see first hand what is fiction.

Is this the 8th reincarnation of Willy?

[1899]

Is this the 8th reincarnation of Willy?

LOL...you were reading my mind.

[steveo]

Srupp and Souwester. I dont think it matters how many times we say it or how big we make the letters. There are certain people here who will always feel the GOABC is there biggest and only threat.
Well boys and girls for those of you who cant get up and stop crying after the little bitch slap the GOABC gave you you sure as hell wont stand a chance when the Fns/govt deals hit you.
As hard as it may be for some of you to comprehend the BCWF and the GOABC need to become allies to win the upcoming fights.
Agree! We need to work together.

[kebes]

Is this the 8th reincarnation of Willy?

Maybe Souwester and BGBLKDG can start going at it..... just for old times sake

[kebes]

As hard as it may be for some of you to comprehend the BCWF and the GOABC need to become allies to win the upcoming fights.

Sounds good. Maybe the GOABC could show a gesture of reconciliation by lobbying the government to return the allocation numbers to what was agreed upon way back when. They might find themselves with allies again!

[Gateholio]

Is this the 8th reincarnation of Willy?

Not unless Willy moved to the Island and changed his name. :)

[1899]

Srupp and Souwester. I dont think it matters how many times we say it or how big we make the letters. There are certain people here who will always feel the GOABC is there biggest and only threat.
Well boys and girls for those of you who cant get up and stop crying after the little bitch slap the GOABC gave you you sure as hell wont stand a chance when the Fns/govt deals hit you.
As hard as it may be for some of you to comprehend the BCWF and the GOABC need to become allies to win the upcoming fights.

I see. So we should just take it and be happy to have such a friend as an ally? Give me a break! The GOABC under it's current leadership and MO is happy to stab us in the back. In fact, I will bet they would VERY happily get in bed with FN and leave residents in the cold. Also, the GOABC has so many friends and allies in the Government that they are safe. We will see the response to your so called "bitch slap" - but it sure as heck won't be the resident hunter putting on some lipstick and saying "give it to us again".

Fool me once, shame on you....

[Buck]

The GOABC have no honor we must separate from them .It is a done deal we move ahead with the 90/10 split or less.Guide territories must be scrapped all power of influence must be curtailed.The current system is broken and we are subsidizing their business at resident's expense. The current government could care less about resident hunters.

[GoatGuy]

Not unless Willy moved to the Island and changed his name. :)

Possible, maybe not probable.

[325 wsm]

The GOABC under it's current leadership I will bet they would VERY happily get in bed with FN and leave residents in the cold. .

Fool me once, shame on you....[/QUOTE]

Yes that wouldnt surprise me, but it is what scares me. The Island conservation group is expanding rapidly in that direction and if the GOABC does what will you do? Do you understand the implications if the FNs become the major financial stake holders in the BC guiding industry. Trust me the GOABC is not in bed with the govt the way the Fns will be…..hence my term slap in the face. By the way... I am receiving yet another 1 as we speak and it is all due to deals between FNs and Govt. If things dont work out for me I will probably post an overview of the slap for people to understand better why I think we need to work together.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Slap me twice and Ill probably try to kick you in the nuts….
thats my theory