The New Allocation Policy is out

[Ed George]

There is a new allocation policy is out this afternoon. They threw us a bone to try and shut us up. Some small gains but still too many Roosevelt elk are going to the guides and how can 1 foreign owned guide territory receive 18% of the bison available to hunters. Definitely not what we wanted or respectfully deserved.


Hunting for Health not Heads

[The Dawg]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/harvest_alloc/docs/Wildlife-Allocation-Decision-2015-FAQ.pdf

[scott_karana]

Wow. "Threw us a bone"? Now that we know they're willing to play ball, shouldn't we double-down? :D

[Everett]

Well it doesn't look like idiot politicians are listening might be time to push the recall button.

[d6dan]

Not good enough!. Total BS.:mad:

[The Dawg]

Recall is already in the works.

[monasheemountainman]

still not acceptable, just because we don't harvest many grizzlies on LEH doesn't mean they should be able to take away our opportunity.

[d6dan]

If we have to be on LEH, then so should non-residents. This new allocation is a slap in the face of resident hunters..

[Everett]

If we have to be on LEH, then so should non-residents. This new allocation is a slap in the face of resident hunters..

If we are LEH there should be NO non resident hunting of that species in that region at all. Because if a species is on Leh obviously there isn't enough harvestable animal to meet resident needs.

[guest]

Its a START ........ But Still G Bear every where 60/40, Goat 65/35 ....... REG 4 Sheep 60/40 Bison .... Roosevelt Elk ..... Sorry Not acceptable ! Not enough gains in my opinion Still Way to much given from BC RESIDENTS ! A loss of 600 opportunities they say ....... 600 to many already.

Government needs to realize ... many of these outfits are Part Time at best ..... and Cannot be sustained ! You Choose your Profession ... I chose mine .......... If theres not enough work ... find it ..... This hardly addresses the MULTIPLE issues that are wrong with the entire GO / Resident relationship .

My Opinion ........ Swing and a MISS ....... Strike 2 ........ throw the ball back to the pitcher ( Gov ) please . Thank you. Back to the Dug outs folks !

CT

[kawdy]

crumbs !!!!
They are still not listening, and that's why we must bring the message to them on March 2nd. Our concerns won't fall on deaf ears !

[Eastbranch]

Still shafted on 7A moose

[kebes]

Still shafted on 7A moose

Why even move if it's only 2%. Ridiculous.

[d6dan]

If we are LEH there should be NO non resident hunting of that species in that region at all. Because if a species is on Leh obviously there isn't enough harvestable animal to meet resident needs.

You have a point Everett. Specifically the Rosie draw. Too easy for non-residents with deep pockets.

[The Dawg]

https://lauriemohr.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/tick-tock.jpg

[tuner]

"The total reduction is estimated at 600 hunting opportunities " If i'm not mistaken, this number is even higher than the one they were floating around the first time.These revisions are cosmetic and have changed nothing!!! Utter failure. Where the hell do we go from here. A lifestyle choice, masquerading as an industry, has more sway over public resource policy than 4million british columbians. The liberals have stabbed their constituients in the back,keep that in mind in the nexr election.

[Everett]

You have a point Everett. Specifically the Rosie draw. Too easy for non-residents with deep pockets.

Rossies, Moose doesn't matter if its LEH it means there not enough for resident demands so non residents should not be allowed to hunt. Make that the rule and see how fast the GOABC will screaming for open seasons.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

This isn't even a bone. More like a shitty piece of gristle.

Off with their heads!! (Figure of speech of course).

[Angus]

https://lauriemohr.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/tick-tock.jpg

Jeez Dawg, would you just open the floodgates!!!! Can't wait to hear what's coming next!

[d6dan]

Rossies, Moose doesn't matter if its LEH it means there not enough for resident demands so non residents should not be allowed to hunt. Make that the rule and see how fast the GOABC will screaming for open seasons.

I agree with you. Total BS. Thompson just doesn't get it.. unless money talks.

[Derp]

what a large pile of hot steaming crap, won't settle for this

[GoatGuy]

Splits for moose in 7a in the 90s was 90%/10%
Splits for bull moose 7a in 2007 85%/15%
2015 bull moose in 7a 75%/25%

Splits for Region 5 moose pre-leh 86%/14%
Splits 2015 75%/25%

Need I say more?

The splits in Region 3 were 95%/5% for moose and even then the outfitters could NEVER shot their allocation.
Then it was 80%/20% in 2015
Now 85%/15%


Resident hunters and the general public has been sandbagged on this one folks.

Looks like all the backdoor deals worked out for GOABC.

Need a month of fury and then it's time to word towards the next election - May 2017.

Resident hunters are going to have to band together and start voting as one united block.

[DBradner]

Just puked in my mouth a little...........................

[Jagermeister]

When the government decides to let my cousins and friends hunt in BC without a guide ripping them off, they will have my interest. Until then, this is a feeble attempt of appeasement. Nice try "Neville"!

[Ed George]

I agree with you. Total BS. Thompson just doesn't get it.. unless money talks.

Thompson got his orders from a skirt high up that has no respect for the residents of this province. If you can not afford to buy a politician you do not have a say in this province. As I said previously, my MLA did not represent me!

Hunting for Health not Heads

[d6dan]

Thompson got his orders from a skirt high up that has no respect for the residents of this province. If you can not afford to buy a politician you do not have a say in this province. As I said previously, my MLA did not represent me!




Neither did mine. What a shameful day this is.

[ACE]

Anything more than a 10/90 split isn't acceptable ..... now is the time to be relentless ....... 'in your face' to these inept politicians, and the self serving GOABC game thieves ......

In the words of Mr. Springsteen .... "Well, we made a promise we swore we'd always remember ....... no retreat, baby, no surrender ..... "

[Wentrot]

Anything more than a 10/90 split isn't acceptable ..... now is the time to be relentless ....... 'in your face' to these inept politicians, and the self serving GOABC game thieves ......

In the words of Mr. Springsteen .... "Well, we made a promise we swore we'd always remember ....... no retreat, baby, no surrender ..... "

Yup, its their turn to be bent over the log. Enough is enough.

[Eastbranch]

Why even move if it's only 2%. Ridiculous.
55 tags across the whole region. Crumbs is right.

[Eastbranch]

Splits for moose in 7a in the 90s was 90%/10%
Splits for bull moose 7a in 2007 85%/15%
2015 bull moose in 7a 75%/25%

Splits for Region 5 moose pre-leh 86%/14%
Splits 2015 75%/25%

Need I say more?

The splits in Region 3 were 95%/5% for moose and even then the outfitters could NEVER shot their allocation.
Then it was 80%/20% in 2015
Now 85%/15%


Resident hunters and the general public has been sandbagged on this one folks.

Looks like all the backdoor deals worked out for GOABC.

Need a month of fury and then it's time to word towards the next election - May 2017.

Resident hunters are going to have to band together and start voting as one united block.
Anyone starting to wonder if that 90% outfitter success rate on a growing proportion of the quota is having anything to do with a population decline?

[FirePower]

We have been screwed by the government yet again. Rally round the cause lads, we must press on. To paraphrase the great man himself.
“I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Heritage, to ride out the storm of this war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.
We shall never surrender!"

[Wydtrak]

How come there hasn't been a front page story with all the info people have showing the corrupt actions of the GOABC and the Gov't? Non hunting BCer's will be interested to know that they have been supporting the sale of their wildlife to foreigners. If we want province wide support and get some serious changes happening the whole truth must be made public. Then the minister and others taking the money will be held accountable. If the gov't gave 380k to GOABC and then they donated 120k to their campaign is that some sort of conflict of interest? This recent BS is not enough, just a tactic to say we are unreasonable. 10% across the board should be the outcome.

[Whonnock Boy]

Splits are a thing of the past. It's time for a non-res LEH, with the option to use and outfitter, or not!

[ACE]

The Liberals are desperately trying to diffuse the March 2nd rally at the Legislature in Victoria .....
This is the time to crank things up a notch or two ......

[Wentrot]

How come there hasn't been a front page story with all the info people have showing the corrupt actions of the GOABC and the Gov't? Non hunting BCer's will be interested to know that they have been supporting the sale of their wildlife to foreigners. If we want province wide support and get some serious changes happening the whole truth must be made public. Then the minister and others taking the money will be held accountable. If the gov't gave 380k to GOABC and then they donated 120k to their campaign is that some sort of conflict of interest? This recent BS is not enough, just a tactic to say we are unreasonable. 10% across the board should be the outcome.


The main media companies are probably all silenced.....Yes my tinfoil is on.

[d6dan]

The Liberals are desperately trying to diffuse the March 2nd rally at the Legislature in Victoria .....
This is the time to crank things up a notch or two ......

Bingo!. Now's the time to rally the troops!. See you all there.

[guest]

The LIBERALS CAN CHOOSE EITHER 102,000 votes FOR ......... OR ....... 102,000 against .........

Back to the table folks !

This is is not acceptable .

[killman]

How about if 102,000 residents didn't buy one ****ing license or tag!

[325]

The Liberals have just lost the next election. I hope it was worth it.....

[Foxton Gundogs]

How about if 102,000 residents didn't buy one ****ing license or tag!

Then they would say there is no interest in hunting by the residents we can give more to the Guides

[The Dawg]

http://www.blogbusters.ch/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/braveheart-film-1995.jpg

[monasheemountainman]

Everyone needs to have a voice here people, I sent in an email to Christy this morning, I urge everyone to do the same, do anything to keep our voices loud. her comments lately have been well im just going to leave it to Thompson and let him come up with a solution. This will not end well for us if we don't speak out! Someone used the word sandbagged and that is exactly what is happening, they come up with a ridiculous allocation policy knowing we will fight it, and then they think we will bow down when they give us an inch....keep at er ladies and gentlemen! If you aren't on your deathbed you should be at the rally in Victoria on March 2

[carnivore]

Dad Gum It, wev'e been hornswaggled agin. Saddle up boys March 2nd is coming up fast!

[Vladimir Poutine]

This is not good enough. This is only a pittance in the guise of pretending to do something. Get to the story on CBC and add your comments. The usual idiots are there.

[Vladimir Poutine]

This is exactly what we figured they'd do. Toss us a scrap and hope we will fight for it. See you in Victoria Snookums. Or will you be in hiding?

[GoatGuy]

Letter to the Premier:

Premier Clark:

I have a few questions for you and your party.
1) How much did GOABC, guide-outfitters, and their family members give you and the liberal party since 2007?
2) How many awards have you and your cabinet members received from GOABC since 2007?
3) How much taxpayer funding has the provincial government (the liberal party) given to GOABC since 2007?
4) Which Ministries were those taxpayer funds from?
5) Who were the Ministers?
6) Were there any GOABC executive members who were part of those Ministers campaign teams?
7) Can you please send me an accounting of all that public money? What it was spent on and the results achieved for tourism in BC?
8) Can you please send me a list of the tourism board members since 2008 and who picked them?
9) Since 2007 how many GOABC executive members have helped you and your party get elected?
10) Who was on your campaign team when you ran for the liberal leadership?
11) How much money and public sector employee time has the Ministry of Environment and Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations spent on the wildlife allocation policy since 2007?

I would like a response, in writing, before March 1, 2015, from you not Minister Thomson.

[Wentrot]

Letter to the Premier:

Premier Clark:

I have a few questions for you and your party.
1) How much did GOABC, guide-outfitters, and their family members give you and the liberal party since 2007?
2) How many awards have you and your cabinet members received from GOABC since 2007?
3) How much taxpayer funding has the provincial government (the liberal party) given to GOABC since 2007?
4) Which Ministries were those taxpayer funds from?
5) Who were the Ministers?
6) Were there any GOABC executive members who were part of those Ministers campaign teams?
7) Can you please send me an accounting of all that public money? What it was spent on and the results achieved for tourism in BC?
8) Can you please send me a list of the tourism board members since 2008 and who picked them?
9) Since 2007 how many GOABC executive members have helped you and your party get elected?
10) Who was on your campaign team when you ran for the liberal leadership?
11) How much money and public sector employee time has the Ministry of Environment and Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations spent on the wildlife allocation policy since 2007?

I would like a response, in writing, before March 1, 2015, from you not Minister Thomson.


Oh thats juicy

[6616]

Splits for moose in 7a in the 90s was 90%/10%
Splits for bull moose 7a in 2007 85%/15%
2015 bull moose in 7a 75%/25%

Splits for Region 5 moose pre-leh 86%/14%
Splits 2015 75%/25%

Need I say more?

The splits in Region 3 were 95%/5% for moose and even then the outfitters could NEVER shot their allocation.
Then it was 80%/20% in 2015
Now 85%/15%


Resident hunters and the general public has been sandbagged on this one folks.

Looks like all the backdoor deals worked out for GOABC.

Need a month of fury and then it's time to word towards the next election - May 2017.

Resident hunters are going to have to band together and start voting as one united block.

Resident hunters don't give up, work towards the greatest ever rally in Victoria on March 2nd. Gov needs to be told this small pittance in not acceptable and they need to go back to the drawing board.....!

[goatdancer]

It's absolutely incredible that those in power can't get their numbers straight. CC spouted something about 100 plus just yesterday, today it's 600. Seems they don't have a clue and don't care to get the facts, just spew for the media and it gets printed as gospel.
These scraps don't cut it. Gotta keep the pressure on. Maybe they'll realize that we are serious and aren't interested in their snow job.

[coach]

Everyone needs to have a voice here people, I sent in an email to Christy this morning, I urge everyone to do the same, do anything to keep our voices loud. her comments lately have been well im just going to leave it to Thompson and let him come up with a solution. This will not end well for us if we don't speak out! Someone used the word sandbagged and that is exactly what is happening, they come up with a ridiculous allocation policy knowing we will fight it, and then they think we will bow down when they give us an inch....keep at er ladies and gentlemen! If you aren't on your deathbed you should be at the rally in Victoria on March 2

I dropped off 740 letters to her staff yesterday. Today, I drove by and saw envelopes that "might" have still had letters in them, in a recycling bin near her office. I'm not saying she didn't take us seriously or that she threw our letters in the garbage, but the coincidence seems suspicious..


Mr Pynn, are you watching?

[The Dawg]

I dropped off 740 letters to her staff yesterday. Today, I drove by and saw envelopes that "might" have still had letters in them, in a recycling bin near her office. I'm not saying she didn't take us seriously or that she threw our letters in the garbage, but the coincidence seems suspicious..


Mr Pynn, are you watching?


http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/f1/f19cda1fbbf7b65182fb4761e2eb845fd9dbf59d4dfc7466a1 48ba6d1aa164ab.jpg

[Buck]

I received a letter from her today dated Feb 3rd not sure it was a response from the letter i dropped off in Kelowna as it was addressed from Victoria.

[bigdogeh]

I dropped off 740 letters to her staff yesterday. Today, I drove by and saw envelopes that "might" have still had letters in them, in a recycling bin near her office. I'm not saying she didn't take us seriously or that she threw our letters in the garbage, but the coincidence seems suspicious..


Mr Pynn, are you watching?

someone needs to ask them if these letters are being read. I'd like to hear their response to that. people have taken the time to write them. they better damn well take the time to read them.

[bigdogeh]

It's absolutely incredible that those in power can't get their numbers straight. CC spouted something about 100 plus just yesterday, today it's 600. Seems they don't have a clue and don't care to get the facts, just spew for the media and it gets printed as gospel.
These scraps don't cut it. Gotta keep the pressure on. Maybe they'll realize that we are serious and aren't interested in their snow job.

i remember the same in the beginning.
it was 110 animals if i'm not mistaken. and this was an on-air response from thompson himself. now they come back and say the changes will result in 600 fewer animals for goabc? are these guys for real? am i missing something? or are these guys that full of crap. nevermind, i think the answer's fairly obvious...

[Daybreak]

I received a letter from her today dated Feb 3rd not sure it was a response from the letter i dropped off in Kelowna as it was addressed from Victoria.

And.........

[Apolonius]

It was all planed to make us look bad.They "moved" toward a compromise and we are not.It is all done to make us look bad .And the media that is in love with the Liberals will pick up on it as it is ordered by Christy.Well Christy i got a message for you,"You will never be elected again here in BC".And this province will be "the best place on earth" again....as per Gordie.

[Whonnock Boy]

I find it interesting how they worded this in the release. Evade, spin, evade, spin, LOOK! SQUIRREL. Damn near a dance step.

What did the BC Wildlife Federation request that they will not receive? • Set percentage splits at the levels they wanted.

[Cordillera]

i remember the same in the beginning.
it was 110 animals if i'm not mistaken. and this was an on-air response from thompson himself. now they come back and say the changes will result in 600 fewer animals for goabc? are these guys for real? am i missing something? or are these guys that full of crap. nevermind, i think the answer's fairly obvious...

Remember that for every animal there are more opportunities because resident success is not one hundred percent.

So I think the math is 100 animals equals 600 opportunities, or something like that.

I will buck the trend on this thread and say in my part of the world the changes represent pretty much status quo from last year. the changes made today address the three hunts in the northern BC where there was any significant shift away from residents compared to the last couple years. And I think guides had a bigger share ten years. Would I like more? Sure. But overall this will not affect my opportunities.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Remember that for every animal there are more opportunities because resident success is not one hundred percent.

So I think the math is 100 animals equals 600 opportunities, or something like that.

I will buck the trend on this thread and say in my part of the world the changes represent pretty much status quo from last year. the changes made today address the three hunts in the northern BC where there was any significant shift away from residents compared to the last couple years. And I think guides had a bigger share ten years. Would I like more? Sure. But overall this will not affect my opportunities.

Sorry but it's this kind of apathy and resignation that they want to see, it will get us nowhere the it "doesn't affect me" attitude is not acceptable.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Whonnock Boy]

Your opportunities have been affected for 15 years. Think of all the opportunity you would get if it was a 90/10, resident/ non-resident split like most other jurisdictions in North America. Don't fall into the trap.


But overall this will not affect my opportunities.

[coach]

Remember that for every animal there are more opportunities because resident success is not one hundred percent.

So I think the math is 100 animals equals 600 opportunities, or something like that.

I will buck the trend on this thread and say in my part of the world the changes represent pretty much status quo from last year. the changes made today address the three hunts in the northern BC where there was any significant shift away from residents compared to the last couple years. And I think guides had a bigger share ten years. Would I like more? Sure. But overall this will not affect my opportunities.

Hmmm.. You live in region 6. You get to enjoy one of the last remaining GOS moose seasons in the province. How long do you think that's gonna last?

[bigdogeh]

Remember that for every animal there are more opportunities because resident success is not one hundred percent.

So I think the math is 100 animals equals 600 opportunities, or something like that.

I will buck the trend on this thread and say in my part of the world the changes represent pretty much status quo from last year. the changes made today address the three hunts in the northern BC where there was any significant shift away from residents compared to the last couple years. And I think guides had a bigger share ten years. Would I like more? Sure. But overall this will not affect my opportunities.

i did edit my post, actully before i read yours. i knew i had to be missing something but think i understand now.
still, taking away 600 hunting opportunities from our and our childrens, and childrens children so that a rich american can come up and bag a trophy doesn't sit well with me. it's 600 opportunities now. what's it going to be in the future? 10/90 is the only way it's going to work. and believe me, that's more than generous.

[Whonnock Boy]

Not very. The amount of wolves that have moved in, combined with it being the last open season in the Province where a lot of RH are travelling to, leaves it high on the target list of the GO's.


How long do you think that's gonna last?

[coach]

Not very. The amount of wolves that have moved in, combined with it being the last open season in the Province where a lot of RH are travelling to, leaves it high on the target list of the GO's.

You mean "60 animals" won't be enough to save the industry? They wouldn't start pushing to change regulations next, would they?

[Salty]

Um did the GOABC draft this? lol Cut the %s to GOABC in half and then there's something to talk about. This is not even window dressing, I'm sorry. There's still lots of time before March 2 to come back with something remotely reasonable which would be best for everybody.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Anyone starting to wonder if that 90% outfitter success rate on a growing proportion of the quota is having anything to do with a population decline?

Only if the bull:cow ratios were hurting and hurting for quite a while.

[E.V.B.H.]

Hardly any change at all. I'm curious why the new list has 60/40 for region four sheep when it's gos? Is it going leh??

[riflebuilder]

we definitely need to keep the pressure up. The GOABC has gotten greedy and many hunters never knew anything about what the splits were, now they do and we need to make sure that the splits get back to something closer to the 90/10 at most 15%. I totally agree if a species is on LEH there is not enough for residents and there should not be any non resident tags. Lets make sure that March 2 shows that we are not going to accept anything less.

[The Dawg]

http://globalnews.ca/news/1817454/b-c-government-backtracks-takes-another-shot-at-hunting-allocation/

[lange1212]

Don't focus on the #'s - focus on the %. For example if the total AH is 10 and the GO gets 40% that only 4 animals right.

WRONG its 40% of your wildife that has just been privatized, and headed for legislation. That's the big picture folks, the #'s are just to deflect us away from the real issue, transfer of public's wildlife to a private often foreign owned interest.

[Buck]

And.........

Thanks for sharing your concerns i have forwarded a copy to minister Thompson who is reviewing with his officials.


There is more this is the condensed version.

[1899]

Don't focus on the #'s - focus on the %. For example if the total AH is 10 and the GO gets 40% that only 4 animals right.

WRONG its 40% of your wildife that has just been privatized, and headed for legislation. That's the big picture folks, the #'s are just to deflect us away from the real issue, transfer of public's wildlife to a private often foreign owned interest.

Shirley Bond sure didn't like that kind of talk. :)

[twanger]

All the more reason 5,000+ pissed off resident hunters better be in Victoria March 02.

[The Dawg]

Shirley Bond sure didn't like that kind of talk. :)

Nope, she took her glasses off and said "Dont use percentages, it sounds worse than it is"

[40incher]

Hmmm.. You live in region 6. You get to enjoy one of the last remaining GOS moose seasons in the province. How long do you think that's gonna last?


Hey There Coach,

There were so many people at the Kelowna Rally we never got to meet when we were there. Good show for everyone involved!! ... and we, us two lowly old resident hunters from Skeena, marched with my sister and our 8-year old nephew (who live in Kelowna) all the way to Crispy's office. It was a great show of resident-hunter pride and power ... too bad the Liberal government doesn't get it!?

As for the Region 6 GOS for moose not lasting ... don't believe the naysayers. Our moose are doing great even with a 7-day GOS any-bull season and three separate GOS bow hunts. The only ones opposed to it are the local guides (one of which is a convicted grizzly poacher) and the MFLNRO bureaucrats who consider that every animal needs to be "endangered". We have fought them all down for the past 20 years and will continue to do so. I'm thinking your comment might be rhetorical, and I take it as such.

The real truth about Region 6 (Skeena) moose management is that it was designed by us poor South Skeena life-timers (both resident and non-GOABC-think guides) that have learned by doing, as opposed to the bureaucratic "plan of the week" that has pervaded wildlife management in our beautiful province. It has stood the test of time and will last as long as my heart keeps a beat!! And, believe me, I am not alone in that principle.

Our Skeena moose hunt is the most liberal in the developed regions of B.C. You are all welcome to come to South Skeena and hunt any bull for 7 days with a rifle, and some 3 weeks with a bow. You don't need to count points or depend on LEH. Sounds like a good plan to me!

So, as to your question as to "how long our GOS will last" ... the answer is the same as for the Allocation Fight ... as long as there is a heart beat and as long as we don't conform to one-size-fits-all.

We fully expect the MFLNRO, the guides (and their Liberal bought-and -paid for bobbleheads), to try and kill our moose GOS. This will not be based on fact but by fear-mongering and the "what if??" diatribe. If Region 5 (the Cariboo) had to revisit their abandonment of the moose GOS a few years ago I think they would be happy to have what we (all BC residents that is) enjoy in the Skeena Region. They can't even get a 2-point bull- GOS now. The Region 5 total LEH was supposed to be a 3-year moratorium!? Good luck with that.

We, in Skeena, will always fight for GOS moose-hunting opportunities that benefit all resident hunters!!! C'mon up and enjoy the opportunity ... but ... be advised ... it's not anywhere near an easy hunt. That's why it still works.

We should all remember one thing ... "LEH is not an opportunity in many cases, it's a restriction". You can quote me on that!

Keep up the good fight!

[tuner]

I love the justification for the 60/40 split for grizzly. Thompson essentially says,residents are shitty grizzly bear hunters, so it's only reasonable that guides get a bigger share of the allocation,cause they're really good at killing them.I would love a chance to see if i'm a shitty grizz hunter,unfortunately even after a decade of putting in for a draw,my number has never come up.

[HarryToolips]

"The total reduction is estimated at 600 hunting opportunities " If i'm not mistaken, this number is even higher than the one they were floating around the first time.These revisions are cosmetic and have changed nothing!!! Utter failure. Where the hell do we go from here. A lifestyle choice, masquerading as an industry, has more sway over public resource policy than 4million british columbians. The liberals have stabbed their constituients in the back,keep that in mind in the nexr election.

Exactly...the BC Liberals have screwed themselves, and we have to make that happen...EVERY hunter in this province should not vote Liberal next election, plain and simple...and sway the votes of as many others as you can...if they get in again, well then we sure as hell didn't do our job of making them pay for these atrocities..

[Sofa King]

how much $$ does the government receive from resident hunter's LEH tags?
hit them where it hurts and nobody put in ANY for a season.
$$ talks, and if they see we'll cut them off completely, they'll respond.
hell, if none of us bought any hunting licences or tags or spent any $$ on hunting for a season, they'd be getting pressure from every business that's outdoor-related.

[Sofa King]

Exactly...the BC Liberals have screwed themselves, and we have to make that happen...EVERY hunter in this province should not vote Liberal next election, plain and simple...and sway the votes of as many others as you can...if they get in again, well then we sure as hell didn't do our job of making them pay for these atrocities..

any hunter who would even consider voting liberal is a fool anyway.
one of their main priorities is bringing back the gun registry.

[Whonnock Boy]

Sorry to say, but harvest rates have been in a steady decline for years up to 2012. Don't have the stats for the last two years.




As for the Region 6 GOS for moose not lasting ... don't believe the naysayers. Our moose are doing great even with a 7-day GOS any-bull season and three separate GOS bow hunts.

[Foxton Gundogs]

how much $$ does the government receive from resident hunter's LEH tags?
hit them where it hurts and nobody put in ANY for a season.
$$ talks, and if they see we'll cut them off completely, they'll respond.
hell, if none of us bought any hunting licences or tags or spent any $$ on hunting for a season, they'd be getting pressure from every business that's outdoor-related.
This has been suggested before, the Gov't will say residenthunters don't take advantage of what we have given them and give the GOs more. You bet they will

[The Dawg]

This has been suggested before, the Gov't will say residenthunters don't take advantage of what we have given them and give the GOs more. You bet they will

Bingo...we dont use it, they have ammo to get more.

[Gateholio]

any hunter who would even consider voting liberal is a fool anyway.
one of their main priorities is bringing back the gun registry.

BC Liberals were opposed to the gun registry.

[Salty]

BC Liberals were opposed to the gun registry.

They've got part of it right. And as soon as they get this allocation policy right and in line with the 2007 agreement they'll be sitting pretty good in my books. If they don't, they're doomed.

[Salty]

Just caught a piece on CBC radio news on this latest adjustment of the allocation policy. I didn't get the name of the BCWF speaker but he called the small increase "trivial in nature" and went on to give a sound rebuttal , which they cut his voice off and gave a few points by the reporter to sum up and end of the piece like they do.... Came across pretty good though I ask myself what would someone who knows zero about this think? I think they'd agree with BCWF. Onwards and upwards....

[ACE]

10/90 is the accepted 'normal' across Canada ......
Anything more than 10% going to private commercial lobbyist/users is unacceptable ......
Thomson, Clark, Ellis, Schneider, Werner, Bennett .......... the wildlife of British Columbia does not belong to you

[GoatGuy]

Hey There Coach,

There were so many people at the Kelowna Rally we never got to meet when we were there. Good show for everyone involved!! ... and we, us two lowly old resident hunters from Skeena, marched with my sister and our 8-year old nephew (who live in Kelowna) all the way to Crispy's office. It was a great show of resident-hunter pride and power ... too bad the Liberal government doesn't get it!?

As for the Region 6 GOS for moose not lasting ... don't believe the naysayers. Our moose are doing great even with a 7-day GOS any-bull season and three separate GOS bow hunts. The only ones opposed to it are the local guides (one of which is a convicted grizzly poacher) and the MFLNRO bureaucrats who consider that every animal needs to be "endangered". We have fought them all down for the past 20 years and will continue to do so. I'm thinking your comment might be rhetorical, and I take it as such.

The real truth about Region 6 (Skeena) moose management is that it was designed by us poor South Skeena life-timers (both resident and non-GOABC-think guides) that have learned by doing, as opposed to the bureaucratic "plan of the week" that has pervaded wildlife management in our beautiful province. It has stood the test of time and will last as long as my heart keeps a beat!! And, believe me, I am not alone in that principle.

Our Skeena moose hunt is the most liberal in the developed regions of B.C. You are all welcome to come to South Skeena and hunt any bull for 7 days with a rifle, and some 3 weeks with a bow. You don't need to count points or depend on LEH. Sounds like a good plan to me!

So, as to your question as to "how long our GOS will last" ... the answer is the same as for the Allocation Fight ... as long as there is a heart beat and as long as we don't conform to one-size-fits-all.

We fully expect the MFLNRO, the guides (and their Liberal bought-and -paid for bobbleheads), to try and kill our moose GOS. This will not be based on fact but by fear-mongering and the "what if??" diatribe. If Region 5 (the Cariboo) had to revisit their abandonment of the moose GOS a few years ago I think they would be happy to have what we (all BC residents that is) enjoy in the Skeena Region. They can't even get a 2-point bull- GOS now. The Region 5 total LEH was supposed to be a 3-year moratorium!? Good luck with that.

We, in Skeena, will always fight for GOS moose-hunting opportunities that benefit all resident hunters!!! C'mon up and enjoy the opportunity ... but ... be advised ... it's not anywhere near an easy hunt. That's why it still works.

We should all remember one thing ... "LEH is not an opportunity in many cases, it's a restriction". You can quote me on that!

Keep up the good fight!

That is correct.

GOABC will come for the moose GOS in Region 6 and I can guarantee you a moose LEH will come up in 7B in the next 5 years.


That is the way they roll.

[40incher]

Sorry to say, but harvest rates have been in a steady decline for years up to 2012. Don't have the stats for the last two years.

Harvest stats don't tell the whole story. Some biologists have tried to use that sky-is-falling approach but it won't get them far. There are other variables involved. When questioned if they ever considered if weather conditions have an affect on harvest the reply was "no they had not". Weather is the #1 influence on success when hunting moose. To ignore that fact is suspect at best.

This "harvest rate/success" argument was tried back at the start of the last allocation period when resident hunters and guides sat down to determine a realistic Annual Allowable Harvest for South Skeena. We based our AAH on a population of 12,500 moose, assuming a reduction (based on some harsh winters and high wolf numbers) from the most recent count of 14,000 in 2004. We told the Wildlife Branch it was wise to be conservative. Interestingly, when the next count was done it came in at close to 12,500 moose. The success of our moose management plan in South Skeena has always been based on a conservative and inclusive approach.


I find it somewhat confusing why the wildlife branch is so focused on pushing LEH on resident hunters when there are other options that are well proven. We fully expect that between them and the guides that this push will continue, similar to ganging up on our bow hunt a couple of years ago. It did not go well for them in that regard when facts overcame innuendo.

What resident hunters need to question is how our split of 83%/17%, based on the 2007 agreement, gradually went up to the 2015 dictum of 75%/25%. That's a loss of over 60 bull moose in South Skeena alone!!

The December 10 decision, and the latest pitiful attempt to appease resident hunters, should make people realize that even short GOS opportunities are a great benefit that should supported. LEH under the original decades-old policy would work if implemented as written by the bureaucrats. Unfortunately it is well proven that LEH rarely lets resident hunters achieve our allocation. The guides love it that way.

Given that the 2007 agreement is toast I would suggest we revert back to the original policy. Given that policy, residents would only be regulated "after" the guide's quotas were reduced. There are no guide minimums in the original Allocation Policy!! Hmmmm .....

[Wild one]

40incher the skeena moose management is the best in BC for giving opportunity to hunt with the GOS/archery/LEH combo and the locals I know use all aspects of it. Moose seem to be doing well also.

Wish more BC hunters were open to this style of management.

Unfortunately we are now stuck fighting over LEH

[BCBRAD]

The Government and GOABC are pushing their agenda with the use of the Hegelian Dialectic.

FYI: The Hegelian dialectic (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/ol/encycind.htm%22) is the framework for guiding our thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead us to a predetermined solution. If we do not understand how the Hegelian dialectic shapes our perceptions of the world, then we do not know how we are helping to implement the vision for the future (http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/geo/courses/geo672002.htm).

Therefore do not negotiate, DEMAND !

[coach]

40incher "gets it". All resident hunters would be wise to learn as much as they can about which he is talking. LEH is a sign of poor wildlife populations. We should all be working toward improving habitat, increasing wildlife populations and enjoying sustainable GOS opportunities. Right now, the GO's are conspiring with government to put more and more species on LEH. That's bad for hunters and really bad for wildlife.

Time to keep working together! Don't let this Policy slow us down.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Great points 40"er!

Our club just put forth some propasals that are outside the box for moose seasons. There are ways to change the seasons to create more opportunity for all hunters without jeopardizing conservation.
We should be setting seasons to move away from LEH even if it means a reduced harvest while we go through an adjustment period.
Of course, we expect the G/O industy to oppose the changes as they don't want any competition in the bush.

[CatsPreb]

The outfitter in my area gets permits to hunt out of his AREA TO HUNT AND KILL BC RESIDENTS WILDLIFE! ON TOP OF THIS HE IS ALL OVER POSTED PRIVATE PROPERTY HUNTING AND KILLING OUR ANIMALS HAS BEEN TURNED IN BUT NOTHING EVER HAPPENS........... WTF? How do they have the right to get away with this....?

[The Dawg]

The outfitter in my area gets permits to hunt out of his AREA TO HUNT AND KILL BC RESIDENTS WILDLIFE! ON TOP OF THIS HE IS ALL OVER POSTED PRIVATE PROPERTY HUNTING AND KILLING OUR ANIMALS HAS BEEN TURNED IN BUT NOTHING EVER HAPPENS........... WTF? How do they have the right to get away with this....?

Fire me some details about that....Id like to know more :)

Name etc...

[Cordillera]

[QUOTE=coach;1600701]Hmmm.. You live in region 6. You get to enjoy one of the last remaining GOS moose seasons in the province. How long do you think that's gonna last?[/QUOTE

When the population dropped a few years ago, there was pressure to reduce the AAH. Fortunately the numbers showed it wasn't needed, but the proposal at the time was to reduce the part of the harvest that comes from leh, and therefore would have reduced the guide share. But reduction of the GOS was not considered an option.

[tangozulu]

That is correct.

GOABC will come for the moose GOS in Region 6 and I can guarantee you a moose LEH will come up in 7B in the next 5 years.


That is the way they roll.

We use to be able to hunt moose untill nov 15 in Atlin, but no more. Death by a 1000 cuts for region 6 gos moose. The locals need moose meat far more than the GOs who no loger live in Atlin.
The Ministry is about to start a major moose count in northern areas of region 6. I suspect an agenda is in the works.We still have good healthy moose ratios and numbers btw.

[flyboy]

The moose are there and a survey will show that, they just are not right beside the road and there lies the problem.

[randymac]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/harvest_alloc/docs/Wildlife-Allocation-Decision-2015-FAQ.pdf
Has anybody got a link or copy of the Dec 10th region by region splits?
I can't find it now and would like to have a comparison to show how small a bone we were thrown to those that think they can give up.

[CatsPreb]

The outfitter in my area gets permits to hunt out of his AREA TO HUNT AND KILL BC RESIDENTS WILDLIFE! ON TOP OF THIS HE IS ALL OVER POSTED PRIVATE PROPERTY HUNTING AND KILLING OUR ANIMALS HAS BEEN TURNED IN BUT NOTHING EVER HAPPENS........... WTF? How do they have the right to get away with this....?


Outfitter Sugar Valley 8-23 Outfitters Ran by Scott McKenzie owned by foreigner from what I had heard from previous outfitter.

Posted Private and no hunting with out permission signs fenced and cross fenced properties. we waited at bottom of road off our property and he tried running us over and gets out of vehicle threatening to kill us all in front of clients! reported but still NOTHING.. This guy should not have any guns!!!!!! a crazed lunitick...
Trys bribing after being caught with animals. usually sends guides into these areas so they can play dumb " Oh I didn't know that" which is BULL! Has had a permit to hunt out of area for bear but shoots deer there too.. whats wrong with the game within the area? Blocks roads with vehicles so you cannot go any further. Had a time where he passed us on a narrow road and wanting to fight, while with a couple clients, guns etc. no thanks! some professional!! And what has been done about any of this ? 0....... CO was good friend or relative of his.. and while i went above him he chewed my ASS out after and had to watch every thing i did was done just perfect! but he did confess to superior about the situation and what i had said.. This does not only happen to us but lots of others in the area but most of them are cowards and to scared to say anything.. hope this helps.

[HarryToolips]

Outfitter Sugar Valley 8-23 Outfitters Ran by Scott McKenzie owned by foreigner from what I had heard from previous outfitter.

Posted Private and no hunting with out permission signs fenced and cross fenced properties. we waited at bottom of road off our property and he tried running us over and gets out of vehicle threatening to kill us all in front of clients! reported but still NOTHING.. This guy should not have any guns!!!!!! a crazed lunitick...
Trys bribing after being caught with animals. usually sends guides into these areas so they can play dumb " Oh I didn't know that" which is BULL! Has had a permit to hunt out of area for bear but shoots deer there too.. whats wrong with the game within the area? Blocks roads with vehicles so you cannot go any further. Had a time where he passed us on a narrow road and wanting to fight, while with a couple clients, guns etc. no thanks! some professional!! And what has been done about any of this ? 0....... CO was good friend or relative of his.. and while i went above him he chewed my ASS out after and had to watch every thing i did was done just perfect! but he did confess to superior about the situation and what i had said.. This does not only happen to us but lots of others in the area but most of them are cowards and to scared to say anything.. hope this helps.

Did you phone this into the RAPP line or the RCMP?? then your going over the CO's head which is good...what about any of your friends/family or anybody you know have any altercations with him?? Get them to phone it in too, then this lunatic can't be ignored...

[tuner]

Get a dashcam or a go-pro, have it on hand when you're in '' his area '' if he acts up, record it,and provide it to both the CO and the RCMP.

[40incher]

We use to be able to hunt moose untill nov 15 in Atlin, but no more. Death by a 1000 cuts for region 6 gos moose. The locals need moose meat far more than the GOs who no loger live in Atlin.

The Ministry is about to start a major moose count in northern areas of region 6. I suspect an agenda is in the works.We still have good healthy moose ratios and numbers btw.


Our Skeena Hunter's Advisory Committee has been clear to the MFLNRO for many years that we want "independent" NGO observers on our Region 6 moose counts. For the northern counts they would be very wise to get local Atlin people involved. That would allow for at least a bit of transparency, especially when obvious distrust exists ... By "independent" we do not mean retired Ministry bureaucrats who have been able to join local NGO organizations and used as a buffer to their agenda. This happened on our latest South Skeena counts where these retirees participated as paid contractors and were described as independent Club members by the Ministry when questioned. Sad but true! What's the big secret??

I have personally witnessed how the "powers that be" have taken away resident hunting opportunities for caribou, sheep and moose in the Atlin area. Anti-use groups from the U.S have aligned with the FN's and thrown money at them to create an issue where none exists ... and government falls all over itself to go along.

Your suspicion of an "agenda" is likely well founded.

The bureaucrats would be wise to include real locals who are not part of said agenda ... if they truly want the counts to have any credibility in the Atlin community and beyond.

[boxhitch]

Or maybe hire Round River again

http://www.roundriver.info/

[Gamebuster]

Our Skeena Hunter's Advisory Committee has been clear to the MFLNRO for many years that we want "independent" NGO observers on our Region 6 moose counts. For the northern counts they would be very wise to get local Atlin people involved. That would allow for at least a bit of transparency, especially when obvious distrust exists ... By "independent" we do not mean retired Ministry bureaucrats who have been able to join local NGO organizations and used as a buffer to their agenda. This happened on our latest South Skeena counts where these retirees participated as paid contractors and were described as independent Club members by the Ministry when questioned. Sad but true! What's the big secret??

I have personally witnessed how the "powers that be" have taken away resident hunting opportunities for caribou, sheep and moose in the Atlin area. Anti-use groups from the U.S have aligned with the FN's and thrown money at them to create an issue where none exists ... and government falls all over itself to go along.

Your suspicion of an "agenda" is likely well founded.

The bureaucrats would be wise to include real locals who are not part of said agenda ... if they truly want the counts to have any credibility in the Atlin community and beyond.

why would biologists in skeeena have an agenda to reduce hunter opportunity for resident hunters? Doesn't make much sense

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Some biologists and regional managers have been under th thumb of the 'industry' for many years. I'm not going to speculate 'why' but it has and still does happen.

[Trigger95]

still seeing 40%, so not a whole lot of progress IMO, we got their attention, now to show we aren't messing around

[one-shot-wonder]

Absolutely....not just in the north, happens in other regions too.

I am confident that with the resident beast being awakened in all of this, things will be different in some cases moving forward.

[Gamebuster]

Some biologists and regional managers have been under th thumb of the 'industry' for many years. I'm not going to speculate 'why' but it has and still does happen.

To the point that independent observers are required during moose counts?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

To the point that independent observers are required during moose counts?

Sure. Over inflated sheep counts happened in the east koots for sheep. Falsely inflating the population results in increased quotas.

It can happen anywhere.

[Gamebuster]

Sure. Over inflated sheep counts happened in the east koots for sheep. Falsely inflating the population results in increased quotas.

It can happen anywhere.

Guess I always figured the shady deals occurred above the biologist level

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Guess I always figured the shady deals occurred above the biologist level

Id probably agree with you on that.

[Gamebuster]

Id probably agree with you on that.

Well inflated sheep counts and requiring independent observers on moose surveys is a problem at the biologist level, no?

[tangozulu]

Or maybe hire Round River again

http://www.roundriver.info/

Yup, RR has pretty much run the MOE from the Atlin Band office. They are a anti hunting NGO based in UTAH. Lots of conflict of interest though BC Gov mostly intimidated by them and of course plenty of anti development ppl in the Ministry these days too.

[boxhitch]

Not sure that anti-hunting is their prime mover , but its too bad that they can't see hunters as being interested in wilderness also. We know who the true conservationists are , and RR seems to use the term incorrectly when they really mean preservation

[boxhitch]

why would biologists in skeeena have an agenda to reduce hunter opportunity for resident hunters? Doesn't make much senseof course , because it's not true. It's not the biologists that are the problem . The reduction of moose and caribou was to appease The Band , the same for the recent 400 m. road rut closures. The sheep numbers are down so all users are reduced .

[boxhitch]

Well inflated sheep counts and requiring independent observers on moose surveys is a problem at the biologist level, no?Guess I missed something . Where did you get info on inflated sheep counts ?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Guess I missed something . Where did you get info on inflated sheep counts ?

Counting sheep that are not in hunting areas like mines and national parks(Region 4).

[one-shot-wonder]

Counting sheep that are not in hunting areas like mines and national parks(Region 4).

Don't forget the sheep we share with Alberta too.....

[DGrant]

I totally agree! If the numbers are low then do away with LEH and general open season altogether! But we all know the real reason for LEH. It is nothing but a money grab by this and previous governments. I think our hunting regulations need a complete overhaul. There should be no season on pregnant animals. If there is to be a season for antlered deer, moose and elk then make it all antlered animals of that species. Having a week long season for 4 point or better then later having an open antlered season is just stupid. Have one month long (or just two week) season for all antlered of the individual species and be done with it. Everyone should have to adhere to these rules! IMO