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Bow Walker
02-25-2007, 01:50 PM
Who can shed some light on how it's done? I'm talking shooting with just stick and string, no arrow shelf, and no sight aids of any kind. Just you the bow and the arrow.

Are there any tips or tricks that you can share? Any developmental exercises or shooting regimens?

Yeah, I know - practice, practice, practice........and then more of the same. But I don't want to be practising bad habits if I can avoid it.

bochunk2000
02-25-2007, 02:19 PM
I wont be much help. The guy who tried to teach me said it was like throwing a baseball. You just look at the target and let it go. I can't shoot trad. worth a darn so that tells you about that for me. Although I might have improved if I practiced.lol
Steve.

oldtimer
02-25-2007, 03:09 PM
STICK AND STRING ===== FRUSTRATION !!!! Biggest reason the american Indian lost !!!! Dan why would you want the aggravation ? Mike

elkmaster
02-25-2007, 03:10 PM
I have shot recurve for over 40 years and had won dozens of first place (traditional catagory) 3d shoots through the 80's and 90's in the east and west kootenay's, as well harvesting dozens of animals.

Many archers shoot the (line sighting style), one famous compound pro shooter years ago for high country archery was Mr. Fred Dean,you had to see this man perform, I watched him in a steel sheep contest which he had won, he beat out the other pro shooters who were shooting with releases, sights and carbon shafts, the distance was 82 yards, the foam kill zone was only 10 inches wide by 8 inches high, some thing to think about!

The style I use for my recurve which is 72 pounds at 28 inches, and my onieda aero force at 80 pounds, and I have no problem shooting them.

I use a style called line sighting, that is shooting three fingers under the arrow, this is easier to look down the arrow shaft and use the tip of the field point or broadhead for pointing and placing on your target, depending on your ancor and the poundage of your bow you will find the right distance dead on.

On my onieda bow when I shoot this style I can aim my arrow and put the point of my arrow on a target and I am dead on at 35 yards, from here it is only knowing by practicing how high to lift the point of the arrow above the target at further distances, after practicing alot you will find your maximun distance (accurate comfort zone), and judging distance will come with practice.

Depending on your bow if you shoot this style you will have to lift your string nock, some times about 3/8 of an inch above level, paper test your arrow flight or watch your arrow flight and adjust if needed (up or down), this goes for any rest including riser rug rests, make sure you use two string nocks together, this is to make sure when you shoot three fingers under that you don't force the string nock out of place because of the v in the string!

Give it try, shooting three fingers under and look down your arrow shaft and use the tip of the arrow for aiming.

Bow Walker
02-25-2007, 03:13 PM
STICK AND STRING ===== FRUSTRATION !!!! Biggest reason the american Indian lost !!!! Dan why would you want the aggravation ? Mike
Maybe I don't have a life? Actually I appreciate the simplicity of that style and the beauty of the bows.

Bow Walker
02-25-2007, 03:17 PM
Give it try, shooting three fingers under and look down your arrow shaft and use the tip of the arrow for aiming.
This is something like I was after! Something definite to do or try.

Mooseman
02-25-2007, 04:30 PM
Hello BowWalker - Check out TradGang (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi) There you'll find more people like us that like it the hard way. Also visit Traditional Bowhunters of BC (http://tbbc.kics.bc.ca/).

A must have (I don't have mine yet) is this video called Masters of the Barebow (http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?c=4&s=33&p=57&i=7032). It is filmed and edited by a friend of mine that also likes it the hard way.

Onesock
02-25-2007, 04:44 PM
BowWalker-Come talk to us at a shoot sometime. You can shoot my bow if you don't have one. We will have ya shootun in no time!

Awishanew
02-25-2007, 05:50 PM
Bowwalker. I was just leaving the Nanaimo range and a guy asked me a question about a compound. I of course was no help as I said I've only shot a stick bow. He said he had one at home but couldn't shoot it. I told him I could have him shooting my bow in a 12 inch circle within 20 minutes. 20 minutes later he gave me crap saying now i'll have to buy one of these. He never looked back. Want the challange?:)

Tuffcity
02-25-2007, 08:15 PM
BowWalker,

Elkmasters technique is also called "gun barreling", that, along with gap shooting, split vision aiming (which I have no real idea how that works), "pure" instinctive or combinations of all of them present different ways to send an arrow where you want it to go. I put "pure" in italics because I'm sure on some sub-concious level the brain uses a reference point or two to aim. I can't get used to using anything but an "instinctive" aiming method but your mileage may vary.

You'll have to mess around and find a grip, finger configuration and anchor point that's comfortable and consistant. Figure out if you like 3 under or split finger for gripping the string.

If you're used to shooting with a release you'll probably have to develop a different set of muscle memories for a smooth finger release. Especially if you are a mechanical release shooter who uses a high elbow draw. Shooting with a high elbow will cause you tons of grief with a "trad" bow as you'll be putting downward pressure on the arrow and probably torquing the string.

My draw/grip method is with a high wrist (on the 'curve) light grip with my bow hand. I shoot split (2 fingers under, one over) and anchor with my middle finger at the corner of my mouth and a secondary anchor of the middle knuckle of my thumb under my cheek bone. I use a pull through release: when I hit anchor I pause briefly and when the brain says go I continue to pull the string but relax my fingers.

Don't just throw open your fingers, bad things happen... :)

What works for me is a push-pull draw. I bring the bow up to target level and then push out towards the spot I've picked out while pulling the string back- finished with the release as described above. A key thing is to have your draw arm in a straight line with the arrow, basically a single plane from arrow tip to elbow.

Some people cant their head, some don't.

Start in close to a target and get used to picking a tiny spot and remain focused on it, watch the spot until the arrow hits the target. Focus is king!

Don't worry about group size just shoot until the brain gets used to looking at where the arrows are going and it will start to make adjustments.

If frustration sets in, walk away for a while or a day.

Read more than one book on instinctive shooting and develop what works for you. There isn't one definitive book or technique on how to shoot instinctive- regardless of what the author says. :)

Go shoot with some traddies, try out their gear.

Don't listen to your compound brethren as they lambast you about playing around with the great evil. :) Come to the dark side...

Above all, have fun with it, you already have the shooting fundamentals and transition from wheel to stick isn't that tough.

RC

Oldtimer- my definition of frustration would be having to set up and tune all those gadgets!! :lol:

Bow Walker
02-25-2007, 10:11 PM
Wow, tons of good info here. As I have mentioned a time or two before, I an finding myself becoming more and more fascinated with Traditional archery - that doesn't mean that I'm giving up my wheels, gears, and pulleys though.

bochunk2000
02-25-2007, 10:31 PM
Wow, tons of good info here. As I have mentioned a time or two before, I an finding myself becoming more and more fascinated with Traditional archery - that doesn't mean that I'm giving up my wheels, gears, and pulleys though.

I hope you don't give them up. How am I supposed to work towards beating you one day if you go and switch catagories, huh?
Steve.

Awishanew
02-25-2007, 10:41 PM
Bowwalker. Read carefully what Tuffcity wrote. That is very good advice. Hope to see you shoot sometime.

Bow Walker
02-26-2007, 09:20 AM
Thanks for your replies. I can see that I've got a lot of practice ahead of me. I'm looking forward to it.

Bow Walker
02-26-2007, 09:24 AM
I hope you don't give them up. How am I supposed to work towards beating you one day if you go and switch catagories, huh?
Steve.
Nope - Hunter Unlimited is my class and I've no intention (as yet) of moving - except upward:)

Besides Steve, I'm not that good. Too spacey to concentrate for 20 targets. I must've been blonde under all this grey hair at one time.:frown:

The Hermit
03-11-2007, 06:25 PM
Dan - Have you bought a traditional bow? J_T has been trying to get me to try it too. I agree those bows look great... art I tell yet its art!

Bow Walker
03-13-2007, 09:18 AM
At this point I'm still looking and trying different equipment. You might've seen me shooting a Horse bow at the first Vic Bowmen shoot?

It was interesting to say the least.

echo
03-18-2007, 02:29 PM
Bowwalker, next time you are up in Cowichan -- talk to Richard Kennet from Bucky's Sport Shop---he teaches recurve and long bow shooting twice a week all year long. He helped me with 'instinctive' shooting---I can't even remember exactly what he said :oops: -- but I know it worked! :D --g'luck -- another person to talk to is our club Prez!!! (Eric Walker---he shoots his 'old faithful' recurve bow awesomely! and has the records to prove it!)
have fun!
~echo

Bigbear
03-20-2007, 10:21 AM
Two things That Ithink that are most important is,
1. Anchor Point. For Me its three fingers Below, so it is the corner of my mouth. One thing to remember is with Trad is that your Draw Length is about an inch to 1 1/2 shorter Than a compound with a release
2. Draw weight. don't over Bow your self. By that I mean dont figure that you need a 70lb bow that you can bearley pull back, and pulls the hell out of your shoulders. Try different Draw weights and find one that is Comfortable, But still has some Punch.:lol:

I'm 5'10 and 240lbs
My bow is a
Chek-mate Falcon Deluxe
46lb@27 in
I shoots woods 430 Gr.
And It Kills Deer and Moose yery effectively, but Missed a :sad:Turkey in Cranbrook Last Fall .:lol:

Bow Walker
03-20-2007, 10:41 AM
BB,
Do you have a picture of your bow - or a link to the manufacturer?
Dan.

Spokerider
03-20-2007, 11:16 AM
Another example.........

If I gave you a baseball to hold, then instructed you to look to your right 10 yards and spy that shiny hub cap on your neighbours car, and to now throw the ball and center that hub cap, you could *probably* do it, the first time! without ever having done it before. Now, how do you suppose you managed to accomplish that? Brain / hand eye coordination, and INSTINCT, that's how. No aiming invloved, just automatic know-how.

Just to stir the pot:twisted: .........

Compounds are like machines, precise and oh so consistent, the archer is the "operator".

Traditional is YOU. If you F-up the shot, it's you. If you make a great shot, it's YOU, which, is why I prefer the stick.

JMHO.

Bigbear
03-20-2007, 01:48 PM
Come up to the Timothy lake (Lac la Hache)Traditional only shoot in July 21/22 There is A Number of Traditional Artists that can give all the advice, Good and of course some bad, that you want. Plus a Whole lot of Fun.

Tuffcity
03-20-2007, 05:13 PM
BW,

You can have a look at www.recurves.com (http://www.recurves.com) for different styles that Chekmate makes. It's a US site but probably has the most comprehensive selection listed on the 'net. The bows, of course, are currently made in Chilliwack.

CM doesn't have a website. But the bowyer was at the shoot on Sunday- he was the disreputable looking figure :twisted: :) selling stuff out of his trunk.

There were enough CM products being shot at the Nanaimo shoot that you probably could have seen most of the line! :lol:

RC

Bow Walker
03-20-2007, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the link, Tuffy. I think I talked briefly with the bowyer - his name is Pat isn't it? He made the arrows that went with the arrow case I think.

J_T
03-20-2007, 07:25 PM
If they live in BC, and they are shooting traditional, 90% of the time, they are shooting ChekMate.

JT

J_T
03-20-2007, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the link, Tuffy. I think I talk briefly with the bowyer - his name is Pat isn't it? He made the arrows that went with the arrow case I think. No not Pat, but I'm guessing by Tuff's "disreputable" description that it was Mark.

Mark makes some fantastic bows. I think I have 5 or six at this point. I really only shoot one. The price is right too.

JT

Bow Walker
03-21-2007, 09:31 AM
I'm leaning towards a one piece recurve, about 58" - 60" with a 45 lb. - 47 lb. pull at 28"

I have no idea about wood types or string types for these bows - I'm just going by over all looks and appeal of the bow(s). So far it's an aesthetic appeal for me. I like the clean, not too bulky lines and looks of the one piece bows.

I've been told that recurves are the most 'forgiving' style of bow - as opposed to flat bows, or long bows.

Hopefully soon. If and when this comes together, I'd like to go over and see the 'factory' where the Checkmates are made. Anyone know if it's possible?

greybark
03-21-2007, 12:38 PM
:) Hey BowWalker , If you wish phone me at 604 824 1493 regarding your last post .

REMEMBER -- Keep Your Fingertab On --

Bow Walker
03-22-2007, 08:43 AM
greybark,
Thanks. I'm not close to buying yet so I don't want to waste anyone's time - yet.

Soon, I hope.

Bigbear
03-22-2007, 09:11 AM
Larry At Chek-Mate is the fella. They are in Burnaby. It takes 6 weeks to have your Bow Made, if there is not one available. You can Order your Bow with the woods you want and the Draw weight you wish. They Range from $272.00 for a plain Falcon to $400.00 for a Falcon Deluxe or Kings Pawn. The Take downs start at $400 and go Up. All Depends on the woods Used Of course.and How many Laminations on the Limbs and Riser.:)

Onesock
03-22-2007, 09:13 AM
Go with yew wood when you buy a bow. This is the most forgiving wood to shoot. Most of the guys on here will be shooting a yew wood bow and besides in grows here on the island.