Experimental Recreational Halibut Fishery

[TPK]

.. and so it begins, buying back our resources from the commercial sector .. what's next buying tags from Guide Outfitters? While there is no direct connect with policy between the DFO and MFLNRO, it's (in my opinion) the thin edge of the wedge. These resources should be available for all resident anglers and hunters at the cost of the license fee only. If the commercial sector is not paying for their quota, why should we have to pay for slice of what they can't/won't use?

We are marginalized with words like "sport fishermen" and "recreational harvesters" which makes it easier to take these opportunities away from us.

I have no suggestion, no answers, just a Friday morning rant, thanks for reading.

Tony

Subject: FN0228-Halibut Experimental Recreational Fishery Program

The Experimental Recreational Halibut Fishery will open from April 1 until
December 31, 2014. In addition to a regular Tidal Waters Sport Fishing licence,
recreational harvesters can obtain an experimental licence, on a voluntary
basis, that will provide additional recreational fishing opportunities by
allowing the licence holder to lease halibut quota from the commercial fishery
for use in the recreational fishery.

A brief description of the operational details of the fishery and a list of
frequently asked questions for the 2014 Experimental Recreational Halibut
Fishery is available online at: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-
gp/commercial/ground-fond/halibut-fletan/index-eng.htm.

If you are interested in participating in the 2014 Experimental Recreational
Halibut Fishery please review the information online and send in an expression
of interest by using the online form: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/forms/fm-
gp/halibut-fletan/eoi-edi-eng.aspx


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Adam Keizer
Halibut and Sablefish Coordinator
Groundfish Management Unit
Phone: (604) 666-0912
Fax: (604) 666-8525


Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0228
Sent March 20, 2014 at 16:26
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

If you have any questions or would like to unsubscribe, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

[835]

Didnt they do this last season as well?
i remember hearing about it,, a resorte had bought a liscense and was selling the quota to sport guys that came up to fish...

im on the fence on this one... the quota is there,, commercial or not it will be taken... it may provide an "Out" for a commercial liscense holder and a great business oppritunity for an operation...
there may be ramifications im missing... but... the quota will get killed either way... i think halibut quote is area specific, so if the Commie boat kills it all it is still dead fish... if a resort buys the liscense it might employ more people???
if a sport guy can buy it it will generate money for more people then just the crew on the boat...

i dunno,,

[Foxtail]

What area is this for? Does this mean you can't fish for halibut with a regular tidal licence? Or does it just increase your daily limit and possession limit?

[835]

The intent as i see it is gives you the option to increase your posession..
if they doit, it will be coast wide im sure..

[bridger]

This is an outrage! Talked with a friend of mine that manages a lodge says the commercial guys-are constantly trying to sell quota to them.

[winchester284]

This is an outrage! Talked with a friend of mine that manages a lodge says the commercial guys-are constantly trying to sell quota to them.

If I was a commercial guy I'd want to be selling my quota as well. I'd be getting market price for the quota without having spent a penny on fuel or wages.... Pure profit.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

.. what's next buying tags from Guide Outfitters?

Haha! That already happens in some areas on LEH with moose hunts they can't sell.

[Tuffcity]

This is the 3rd year its been available, and it is coast-wide. Foxtail- you can still fish hali's with a regular tidal licence. Surprising how many lodges/guides get an "experimental licence" quota- I guess so their guests don't have to turf back any monsters they catch.

[Surrey Boy]

Haha! That already happens in some areas on LEH with moose hunts they can't sell.
Would that allow a resident hunter to legally harvest more than one moose?

[GoatGuy]

Would that allow a resident hunter to legally harvest more than one moose?

no provincial bag limit overrides

[GoatGuy]

This is simply a function of people not being in touch with their politicians.

Very easy to fix.

Pick up paper, pen, write letter. Repeat.

[835]

The thing is, what i dont think people are getting...
Commie fisherman "X" has 10,000 lbs of halibut quota... he goes fishing in area "G" and gets his 10,000lb quota.... Fish are dead.
Commie fisherman "Y" has 10,000 lbs of hali quota goes out for 5,000 lbs and sells quota for 5,000 lbs to a resort in area "G"... That resort employs a bunch more people, brings more money to the economy from the US and ultimatly sells the dead weight for more money... Either way the fish is dead... it just changes how much profit is made and how many people make it....

The only issue as i see it is....
how much extra pressure does this bring to one area? if the hali quota is coast wide the commercial guy might take it from a few different areas, where as the Resort will only take it from 1.

impact on the enviornment is the only thing that matters, now i know first had what impact is. untill you see 5,000 lbs of hali in one place at one time... all still alive ;) you may not have perspective

[Ricky Bobby]

Commie fisherman "X" has 10,000 lbs of halibut quota... he goes fishing in area "G" and gets his 10,000lb quota.... Fish are dead.
Commie fisherman "Y" has 10,000 lbs of hali quota goes out for 5,000 lbs and sells quota for 5,000 lbs to a resort in area "G"... That resort employs a bunch more people, brings more money to the economy from the US and ultimatly sells the dead weight for more money... Either way the fish is dead... it just changes how much profit is made and how many people make it....

The only issue as i see it is....
how much extra pressure does this bring to one area? if the hali quota is coast wide the commercial guy might take it from a few different areas, where as the Resort will only take it from 1.

impact on the enviornment is the only thing that matters, now i know first had what impact is. untill you see 5,000 lbs of hali in one place at one time... all still alive ;) you may not have perspective

Ok, so why do we need to buy it from a commecial guy? The resorts have the anglers regardless. The only difference is now the commecial guy gets given a bunch of money for doing nothing.

And why are recreation guys restricted on size (protect breeding stock?) while commercial isn't. Seems like if we could protect 85% (commecial) of the catch from killing breeding females we would be better off than protecting 15%(recreation)?

I like a freezer full of halibut and Salmon, try and do it every year but the Gov can go **** itself if it expects me to buy the right to go fishing from some lazy prick sitting at home in his lazy-boy.

[835]

lol.. i wont comment.
lazy Prick in a lazy boy? lol

ahh maybe i will.

The resort will get way more business... more people from the states will come up if they can go home with moe then 2 fish for the cost of the trip. That doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out.
The commercial guy is not going to give up his quota, And the governtment isnt going to take it away.
Think of how many fish a longliner would row through if he was controled by size? What do you think the mort rate on a few miles of long line be.

by the way, i am a sport guy... but un like you i also know what Fishing is, i did that For quite a while. Worked for a marine reserch company a well....
whats the big deal if this alows 2 indutstries to make money?

[TPK]

The issue is paying a commercial interest for something that doesn't belong to them in the first place.

[Ricky Bobby]

by the way, i am a sport guy... but un like you i also know what Fishing is, i did that For quite a while. Worked for a marine reserch company a well....
whats the big deal if this alows 2 indutstries to make money?

Tell me more. Tell me about my captains (thats plural cause I worked boats too), tell me all about the hard up commecial guys, blah blah blah. Tell me how beging GIFTED quota then sitting on his ass he sells it back! Same guy who rolls around in mercedies, has a nice house, ski cabin. Very hard up guy and he hasn't stepped onto his boat in YEARS! Wait I don't even know if he owns gear anymore, good thing he was gifted hali quota to sell us.

The issue is that there is no reason to have somebody paid to do nothing while residents, non-residents all get to give the commie more money for sweet-****-all! Why do we need to buy a public resource from a private company?

[835]

Ok,
i come from both sides of the fence here...

There is a finite amount of Commercial liscences out there, and from that there is a quota issued to each liscense holder. The bottom line is the government will not be buying back the liscenses.
The commercial guy is not going to give back his quota. The quota does in fact belong to them because these guys paid huge coin for the liscense to fish them. So, if you can make it profitable for the commercial guy to sell his quota to a sport operation then at least the fish earns more money to the sport sector. Now, i also think sport should get a better crack at it as well.

As i stated in my first post, i have been out of that industry for a long time, and there might be ramifications that i am missing. I remember Iron Knoggin said something last year that i can remember what the hell it was .. but it was refering to this and i didnt like it. Maybe when he gets wind of this thread he will help.

I was a commercial fisherman, a guide and an Observer.. i have always been a sports fisher. I am out there for the fish, for my kid to see what i have seen. And as well have as much money made by people involved as possible with out sacrifice. Difference with me is i see both sides.

[835]

RB,,, maybe your captain came from a family of fishermen,,, maybe he is 4th generation commercial and earned his way to that Mercedies you are talking about..... maybe not.. maybe he busted his hump somewhere else... to earn his way there... I dont know... but

[TPK]

..The quota does in fact belong to them because these guys paid huge coin for the liscense to fish them. So, if you can make it profitable for the commercial guy to sell his quota to a sport operation then at least the fish earns more money to the sport sector. Now, i also think sport should get a better crack at it as well.
They pay for the ability to fish, they don't buy the fish. It's their choice to be in the industry, they don't need to be subsidized by the local angler. I work in the forestry industry, we've been kicked to hell and back but it's our choice to be here. Their license fee isn't much different than anyone that owns a business paying for a business license (other than the $$ difference). NO guarantees in business that having a license means you make money. Very simplified example I know but it is the principle (again, my opinion) that it's just wrong for residents to have pay a commercial interest to fish local fish in local waters. I don't believe (and could very well be wrong ..) that with halibut, if quota is not made ..no big deal, the annual allowable catch is a limit not a target unlike with animals and LEH where game management is in play and there is a need to get a certain number of specific animals down to balance things out.

[835]

I definatly aggree with you TPK.
I do not like the idea of paying commercial interests either.

But, and i could be corrected here as well. like i said its been a while. there is/was 2 types of quotas. The "one big pile" everyone fishes till its gone, like in herring fishing. And the quota that is attached to a liscense, like Black cod.
Halibut i believe is the latter. The boat owns quota. This is the part i am unclear on and yes it could totally change my view depending on how it works. I got out of the commercial industry when i was 21... im 37 so that gives you an idea.

Now the boat that owns the quota, ya maybe it might not get lucky and catch the entire quota but.. that is nit picking the deal.

[Ricky Bobby]

RB,,, maybe your captain came from a family of fishermen,,, maybe he is 4th generation commercial and earned his way to that Mercedies you are talking about..... maybe not.. maybe he busted his hump somewhere else... to earn his way there... I dont know... but

Some of them really and truly earn it. I will not begrudge someone successful for work however when the Government gives away a public resource then expects us to buy it back when the commecial sector doesn't even use their quota up, thats BS. You want money made look at the $/pound value of commercial vs recreation fish.

More money to be made by Canadian Government and people if we reclaimed quota openned up the recreational fishery and let more US, European, Asian clients come and fish.

[835]

You are right, the money made by Sport caught is WAY more then commercial. that is what i am saying.
Now what they did at These resortes as i remember is they allowed the resort to buy out the liscense and its attached quota. The resort then sells the quota to its guests.... Yes it takes it out of Residents hands,, but it also takes it out of commercial hands... Now for the govern ment to then give the Commercial sector more fish after allowing Sport industry to buy the liscense and its attached quota would be wrong, yes. We have to hope that doesnt happen...

Yes it is all one big money grab, and those of us with out the money wind up loosing... But this way at least the dead fish earn more money per pound...

[Ricky Bobby]

You are right, the money made by Sport caught is WAY more then commercial. that is what i am saying.
Now what they did at These resortes as i remember is they allowed the resort to buy out the liscense and its attached quota. The resort then sells the quota to its guests.... Yes it takes it out of Residents hands,, but it also takes it out of commercial hands... Now for the govern ment to then give the Commercial sector more fish after allowing Sport industry to buy the liscense and its attached quota would be wrong, yes. We have to hope that doesnt happen...

Yes it is all one big money grab, and those of us with out the money wind up loosing... But this way at least the dead fish earn more money per pound...

My understanding is that much like one boat leasing another boats quota these lodges are leasing quota from Commercial guys. This means every year Commercial guys are paid to sit year after year.

These guys (commercial fishement) were given quota. This quota they then lease out to other guys. Kinda like the Government gave them $1,000,000 (of your money) and they are now just renting that money back to you and me every year. Thats BS to me.

Secondly you want the most made, how much of the Commercial allocation was fished last year? What was their utilization? If Residents are consistently going over and we make a significantly larger contribution finacially per pound wouldn't it make sense to re-distribute the quota.

I don't care if Commercial guys want to give it up. They should never have been granted it in the first place, its illegal and wrong and needs to be corrected.

[835]

Why is it illegal?

I guess the part i am missing is how the quota landed in the hands of the liscense holder..
That is a critical bit

[lowband6]

I believe the commercial resorts are causing a lot of the problems for the resident sports fisherman. As I understand it there is a target recreational catch each year for salmon,halibut etc. More fish than we could ever harvest, but add on these ever expanding commercial resorts and the numbers don't work. Maybe its time for them to get their own allocations and leave the recreational allocations to the resident sports like it was originally intended.

[fowl language]

if nobody bought quota both commercial and sports from the license holder, then what. they would have to fish it themselves or lose it. imagine....fowl

[Opinionated Ol Phart]

There are some you on his board that need to tune up your understanding of how the give a-way of our halibut resource came about.

You can start here: http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/memorandum_of_fact_and_law_-_halibut_allocation_hearings.pdf


Against the wishes of the SFI and the SFAB, the "Experimental License" was made available to lodges, guides and rec fishermen.

It is BS that we should have to buy fish that all ready belongs to all Canadian






(http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/memorandum_of_fact_and_law_-_halibut_allocation_hearings.pdf)

[Geo.338]

The issue is paying a commercial interest for something that doesn't belong to them in the first place.

They do not own the fish until they have caught them . Sport fishermen are paying commercial guys for something they do not own . Win win for them and the sporties and residents are being raped . I have a problem with this also .

[835]

There are some you on his board that need to tune up your understanding of how the give a-way of our halibut resource came about.

You can start here: http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/memorandum_of_fact_and_law_-_halibut_allocation_hearings.pdf


Against the wishes of the SFI and the SFAB, the "Experimental License" was made available to lodges, guides and rec fishermen.

It is BS that we should have to buy fish that all ready belongs to all Canadian






(http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/memorandum_of_fact_and_law_-_halibut_allocation_hearings.pdf)


[/QUOTE]


Right, thank you OOP. i know i am the guy this is aimed at.... and this is why forums exsist... to inform people... my mind gets changed every day from information i learn about our sport... information and learning.
this is something that was eluded to earlier, hence my Question as how the quota came to the Commercial sector.

To me it seemed a way to get commercial quota into the Resident/Sport sector.
That was how i was looking at it. I dont like the idea of having to buy quota...

My thinking... ( numbers are not accurate im just using them to describe my thinking )
100% of the halibut
of that say 50 went to Commercial back in the 79 to the 435 liscense holders.. And recreational was never counted because in 79 they didnt think we had enough impact to count on.
So since '79 the 435 liscense holders have fished their share of the quota.
Since then private sector has bought and sold and traded that quota around... ( sometimes t the fat guy in the mercedes!) All the while we Sporties never counted.


Flash forward.
Now, people are seeing the impact we all Commercial and Sport are having on halibut. But that quota has long since been private,, since before sport impact counted.
So that 50% that has been bought and sold... since '79... DFO cant change that,, its kinda like the land on SVI... The government gave it all away.. since then private industry has bought and sold it.....
So now all the government can do is Manage us... or buy back that quota to be freed into open Sport fishing. And yes that sucks. The Government sold out the public a long time ago.... and now we are seeing the impact of deals done 40 years ago.


So, again... i am just trying to understand the "Flow" of this all...
and Opinionated Old Phart is helping at this.


To me... the real question is .. How do you get that quota out of the commercial sector? Other wise things like this will always come up or the fish will dissapear..

[IronNoggin]

Ain't been online much of late, and this is the first I am seeing this discussion...

Kind of surprised by the source Dru... :wink:
You're usually a tad more astute than what's presented here.

Thanks to Old Phart for his link and comment. That goes a fair ways towards describing the situation...

"How do you get that quota out of the commercial sector?" And therein lies The Crunch. Many minds have been working diligently on just that task, but is is NO "Simple" one. Political Pressure (Town Hall Meetings, Writing Campaigns etc) did produce a minor re-allocation of quota two years back now, and the government has stated that is all there is for "wiggle room". The fact that matter is still in court seems to suggest just how problematic any real adjustments continue to be...

The basic underlying premise is this: The Government "gave" away access to a Public Resource. Although guised as "access", in reality what they transferred was "Ownership" of fish still swimming. An Illegal Maneuver as defined by the Canadian Supreme Court.
Now, that Public Resource has been transformed into a Privately Traded Commodity, and as often happens with such "stocks", those who "own" it are careful in their ongoing manipulations to realize the largest return possible from their "holdings". Thus what was originally "gifted" has become an enormous economic driver for those who retained their slice of the pie, or in some cases, accumulated as much as they possibly could. Given the economics involved, it is more than a bit of a nightmare to get the situation "back on track".

My thought is that a court challenge of the original resource allocation might well succeed, based on related findings by the Supreme Court. That however would take a HUGE investment of time and money, all the while battling both the commercial sector and the government (who of course uses your own resources against you) simultaneously. Coming up with a sufficient "war chest" to proceed is damn near an insurmountable undertaking right from the get-go. But, eventually, it may well have to come down to that methinks...

As for the original query: We should NOT have to buy "access" to a Public Resource. The Resource itself belongs to ALL Canadians, not simply a select few The Dino favors. Buying into this "Ponzi Scheme" is a serious mistake, and if successful, will set the trend for many other fisheries to follow. I do not know anyone who has purchased said quota, and the negative reaction amongst the sportfishing community thankfully has kept this to a dull roar. Any who step outside the solidarity are branded with the stigma for doing so. This is as it should be IMHO. And for certain, we must continue the efforts to realize Fair & Equitable Access for ALL!!

Nog

[835]

Ya i know Matt!,,
i was trying to plead my ignorance to it earlier... and was kinda trying to inform myself along the way.
I do think the real problem is how to get the quota out of the commercial sector.

i kinda new i was a lil on the wrong side of you hear Matt,, and was looking for information like OOPhart and you to school me.
i wont say i was playing devils advocate, but i was trying to get informed.

[IronNoggin]

... i kinda new i was a lil on the wrong side of you hear Matt,, and was looking for information like OOPhart and you to school me.
i wont say i was playing devils advocate, but i was trying to get informed.

No Worries whatsoever Buddy! Only way I know of to "get informed" is to ask!
We should sit down over a brew this spring and chat about this, and just enough other matters of interest as to ensure a somewhat lengthy session! :wink:

Cheers,
Nog

[Cordillera]

this is a great thread! I remember back in school the economists had a fancy term for when a public right was given for free, then became more valuable and the only person who really benefited was whoever got in first. After that the person who had purchased it from the first person, had to make a buck, and the public had to pay to buy back. Not sensible. to make matter worse,, DFO clearly has a huge bias towards the commercial sector; they have some room to allocate more fish and opportunity to the recreational crowd (yes limited by the existing licenses and allocations), but they just are caught by the lobby of the commercial sector. Put pressure on DFO to move slowly towards a balance that is more favourable to recreational interests. The economics are massively clear;the same fish caught by a sportie is way more "valuable" in pure economic terms than by the commercial sector.

[MichelD]

Cordillera, you may be referring to the "Tragedy of the commons."

A 'net definition:

The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen. This dilemma was first described in an influential article titled "The Tragedy of the Commons," written by Garrett Hardin (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Hardin) and first published in the journal Science (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_%28journal%29) in 1968.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#cite_note-hardin68-0)

[40incher]

Tragedy of the Commons is an overused excuse to limit the "commoners" ... that would be the average angler/taxpaying Canadian owner of the common resource (not the rich and famous). It has been used to justify transferable quota and the "experimental" system.

The halibut resource is doing just fine despite all the chicken littles saying otherwise. Perhaps the commercial lodges should buy their quota from the long-liners and leave the commoners to fish as they please. When the commercial lodges are killing 80% of the angling allocation I have a problem with some blaming us common folk.

[dryflyguy57]

I believe the commercial resorts are causing a lot of the problems for the resident sports fisherman. As I understand it there is a target recreational catch each year for salmon,halibut etc. More fish than we could ever harvest, but add on these ever expanding commercial resorts and the numbers don't work. Maybe its time for them to get their own allocations and leave the recreational allocations to the resident sports like it was originally intended.
Couldn't agree more .

[dryflyguy57]

Commercial Lodges as you said , not sport lodges . Very good lobby group that is not working in our RECREATIONAL interests .

[guest]

Dryflyguy hit it right on the head . Having worked for a number of them, they ARE commercial operations, mostly owned by people with big wallets that are making their wallets even thicker at the cost of the average sport fisher. How the federal government and DFO do not See what we the recreational fishers put into the economy is baffling !

[Whonnock Boy]

So if i have my own boat i can fish the resource that belongs to us all for free, if I hire' or rent a boat I should have to pay for the fish. Makes sense.....

[ohno]

if I hire'
This is the key phrase. You hire a guide or "commercial operator" to take you out to catch your fish. This person makes his living taking people out every day to catch fish in a commercial endeavor and as such has a higher success rate (If he is any good that is LOL).

However if you own your own boat or rent a boat you are going out as in indiviual only and are limited by your own finanacial resources and skill/knowledge of that particular fishery. As such success rates vary widely between individuals.

[Blair]

If I understand TPK's original part of this thread, it means that I as an individual sportfisher can buy quota and go out and catch more halibut than my ordinary license would allow me. Is that correct? And, if so, how does one go about buying this quota?

Or, as I thought before, is this quota only available for purchase by people with deep pockets such as sportfishing lodges with Rich clients?

[TPK]

[QUOTE=Blair;1484155]If I understand TPK's original part of this thread, it means that I as an individual sportfisher can buy quota and go out and catch more halibut than my ordinary license would allow me. Is that correct? And, if so, how does one go about buying this quota? QUOTE]

That is correct, the actual "how to buy it" I do not know, I assume you head to the dock and locate an individual willing to sell some quota ... BUT I would urge with the strongest possible emphasis that NO ONE do this. Do not get suckered into paying for what should be yours already. If enough folks boycott the idea and it does not gain traction, that would be the best scenario.

[guest]

Experimental my back side ........ This is government selling your , mine and our assets ....... It's just the start ..... How many or how much halibut can a person or family use ....... It's just the start of higher costs and a monopoly . Any ying yang low enough to buy it needs to have their head read. The main problem is not only the pathetic limit but the SLOT size you and I can only kill in. Sport fishers put more into the Entire economy then what the government is giving us credit for. Pattison and others continue to get richer off the publics back.

Dont net be an idiot and buy any.

[dryflyguy57]

If I understand TPK's original part of this thread, it means that I as an individual sportfisher can buy quota and go out and catch more halibut than my ordinary license would allow me. Is that correct? And, if so, how does one go about buying this quota?

Or, as I thought before, is this quota only available for purchase by people with deep pockets such as sportfishing lodges with Rich clients?
Trading at $70 buck a pound right now . $700 bucks and you could catch a 10 lber for life unless of course the lodges lobby for more recreational catch , then your IVQ might shrink . Yee Haw , such a deal . Just can't see this one flying but then again nobody thought they would put size restrictions on halibut a couple of years ago . The commercial sector and lodges must be enjoying this divide and conquer statergy the DFO employs . Watch the price of quota jump up now . Commercial sector ,lodges and charter boats should be the ones buying quota from within the 85 % allocation and leave the 15 % for the true recreational sector . If they want to make a buck at catching halibut let the marketplace sort it out and may the best business plan win .

[fowl language]

we need to be clear about this, you cannot buy quota and put it on a boat unless your boat has an empty "L' LICENSE. first. you can only rent the quota for one year at a time.....fowl

[dryflyguy57]

That makes a bit more sense , only 439 L tabs out there .

[bcriverhunter]

This means if you have money--you get all the
Hallis you want!.....in the end, joe/jane fisher will
Get the shaft! anyone know what the market
Value for halli is to buy in right now?...looked into
This 3 years ago- think the lady(info) said it
Was 6$ a lb at the time!...i could have bought 100 pound
"quota" for $600.....i could resell it too i
Believe?.....who are the winners?--guides/lodges...who
Are the losers in the coming years?...resident fishers
With modest incomes!....

Hunting quota is around the.corner--get ready!!

[bcriverhunter]

$70 a pound?......wow!!

[303savage]

If there is not enough halibut for 2/day limit for sports fishermen, why the hell is there a commercial fishery for them at this time?
Next it will be Chinook salmon you will have to buy a tag off commerical fisherman. and then if you want to hunt big game you will have to buy a permit from Guide Outfitters Association of B.C.

[Tuffcity]

If there is not enough halibut for 2/day limit for sports fishermen, why the hell is there a commercial fishery for them at this time?

The International Halibut Commission sets Canada's yearly quota at "X" number of pounds based on available bio mass. Of that "X" poundage the commercial fishery is allocated 80% of the quota and the rec fishery gets 20% of the "X" poundage.

Anything caught by a "recreational" fisher, whether they are a Canadian resident, out of country tourist, catch their own with their own gear, utilize a foreign or domestic owned lodge and guides or are guided by a lone local guide, it all comes off the Canadian (Pacific) rec fishery quota.

RC

[dryflyguy57]

If there is not enough halibut for 2/day limit for sports fishermen, why the hell is there a commercial fishery for them at this time?
Next it will be Chinook salmon you will have to buy a tag off commerical fisherman. and then if you want to hunt big game you will have to buy a permit from Guide Outfitters Association of B.C.
Why do the commercial lodges take from the rec quota ??? Why have a commercial sport fishery ?? There is a commercial fishery so those that want to buy halibut in a store can .

[Tuffcity]

Why do the commercial lodges take from the rec quota

Because they make up part of the SFAB?

[1899]

What are we coming too. What a disappointment the way our government is handling this and the GOABC splits.

[MichelD]

"Next it will be Chinook salmon you will have to buy a tag off commerical fisherman."

Chinook have been a designated recreational fish for so many years now I can't even remember when it started.

[Tuffcity]

The province doesn't have anything to do with the halibut allocation, it's a fed thing.

[thunderheart]

This is an outrage! Talked with a friend of mine that manages a lodge says the commercial guys-are constantly trying to sell quota to them.

well is the lodge not a COMMERCIAL enterprise ? the commercial halibut guys had to pay for the allocation /quota ,, they did not get it for free .. why should commercial fishing lodges and guides get it for free....it makes perfect sense to me .. ALL and i mean ALL outfitters and fishing guides SHOULD have to pay for selling fishing adventures /hunting adventures ...they should be on a quota no different than commercial fishermen NOT resident recreational fishermen ....

[Piperdown]

Well after the last post i am getting a beer and popcorn :)

[Whonnock Boy]

Yes, they did. Original commies were allocated their quota for free. If I don't have a boat, and I am a canadian resident, I want to be able to hire a boat to take me where I can catch my fish. End of story....


they did not get it for free ..

[thunderheart]

Yes, they did. Original commies were allocated their quota for free. If I don't have a boat, and I am a canadian resident, I want to be able to hire a boat to take me where I can catch my fish. End of story....
no .. not end of story ... they had to work for their quota .. they had to invest large sums of money in gear and vessels and the time to learn the business .. it was not just given to them ... they invested time and large sums of money ...

remember i said ...NOT resident recreational fishermen ..residential recreational fishermen should not have to buy quota ... commercial lodges should ...

[Tuffcity]

The halibut resource is, supposedly, a resource that belongs to Canadians. Commercial guys have their slice of the pie, rec fishers have theirs and even though this allocation is in dispute, currently it is what it is. So who's allocation should the non-Canadian fishers come from? Should lodges and sport guides have to get quota and be part of the commercial entity, given that they do make money off of a public resource and the rec sector struggles to have enough quota to maintain a 11 month fishery on slot sizes and a 1/day-6/yr limit?

Is there a better system?

[lorneparker1]

If there is not enough halibut for 2/day limit for sports fishermen, why the hell is there a commercial fishery for them at this time?
Next it will be Chinook salmon you will have to buy a tag off commerical fisherman. and then if you want to hunt big game you will have to buy a permit from Guide Outfitters Association of B.C.


Regular rec fisherman really get the shaft when it comes to halibut

While we don't have enough allocation with the 85/15 split, the majority of our 15% is caught by guides and lodges. And honestly i'm ok with that to an extent. What I am not ok with is how our current allocation is being managed. We are being WAY over restricted to stay within out current TAC. we left 144,000!!!!! lbs, that's 15% of our total in the ocean last year. The year before was very similar. The problem is the group that represents us "SFAB" is basically a good ole boys club, lobbied hard by the West coast guides association. I can tell you that the current structure will always reflect what the WCGA wants. We should be allowed a big fish, but we wont get it because WCGA doesn't kill many biggies and they would rather error on the side of caution, then allow biggies to be killed. I get that biggies are females and spawners. But I also get that we have such a small piece of the pie that if joe blow kills a 100lber it has almost no impact on the bio mass. Commies dont throw them back and they overall size of the halibut (gross weight per fish) has been steadily rising for a few years now. There rational from the SFAB for the restrictions is always weather or angler effort being "rolls of the dice" which they use as you cant predict it, which is true, It can also go the other way.

The IPHC meeting just happened and Canada has the same TAC as last year, a bit over a million lbs. Rumour has it SFAB is calling on the exact same regs as last year despite the fact we left 140 THOUSAND lbs in the ocean. And that my friends is ridonkulous!

Lorne

[thunderheart]

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/halibut-quotas-for-sale

[Tuffcity]

Other than that is a 4 year old article and hali's were open until Dec 31 this year, it does have some valid points.

[dryflyguy57]

Yes, they did. Original commies were allocated their quota for free. If I don't have a boat, and I am a canadian resident, I want to be able to hire a boat to take me where I can catch my fish. End of story....
Most quotas have changed hands since its inception . This system was sold to the commercial guys by( Pat Chamut Deputy Director DFO ) , Brice Turris ( economist whose son is Kyle ) . It was a derby system for many years before that . There was no choice if you were a license holder . If you purchased and held a L tab before quotas for lets say $100,000 your quota was established by a 70/30 split , 30 % boat length and 70 % on best 2 years out of 4 ( catch history ) . So nothing was free at the time quotas were handed out and there was no sport allocation from the TAC at that time . Many licence holders sold very early on and those that bought in paid for quota . To say everyone in it got quota for free is not an accurate statement . In my opinion Langara Lodge is as commercial as a 42 foot troller with an L tab and a longline drum , how they make margin from you is their business case . Shouldn't take it from the recreational quota period .

[thunderheart]

Most quotas have changed hands since its inception . This system was sold to the commercial guys by( Pat Chamut Deputy Director DFO ) , Brice Turris ( economist whose son is Kyle ) . It was a derby system for many years before that . There was no choice if you were a license holder . If you purchased and held a L tab before quotas for lets say $100,000 your quota was established by a 70/30 split , 30 % boat length and 70 % on best 2 years out of 4 ( catch history ) . So nothing was free at the time quotas were handed out and there was no sport allocation from the TAC at that time . Many licence holders sold very early on and those that bought in paid for quota . To say everyone in it got quota for free is not an accurate statement . In my opinion Langara Lodge is as commercial as a 42 foot troller with an L tab and a longline drum , how they make margin from you is their business case . Shouldn't take it from the recreational quota period .

very well said ...

[pro 111]

.. and so it begins, buying back our resources from the commercial sector .. what's next buying tags from Guide Outfitters? While there is no direct connect with policy between the DFO and MFLNRO, it's (in my opinion) the thin edge of the wedge. These resources should be available for all resident anglers and hunters at the cost of the license fee only. If the commercial sector is not paying for their quota, why should we have to pay for slice of what they can't/won't use?

We are marginalized with words like "sport fishermen" and "recreational harvesters" which makes it easier to take these opportunities away from us.

I have no suggestion, no answers, just a Friday morning rant, thanks for reading.

Tony

Subject: FN0228-Halibut Experimental Recreational Fishery Program

The Experimental Recreational Halibut Fishery will open from April 1 until
December 31, 2014. In addition to a regular Tidal Waters Sport Fishing licence,
recreational harvesters can obtain an experimental licence, on a voluntary
basis, that will provide additional recreational fishing opportunities by
allowing the licence holder to lease halibut quota from the commercial fishery
for use in the recreational fishery.

A brief description of the operational details of the fishery and a list of
frequently asked questions for the 2014 Experimental Recreational Halibut
Fishery is available online at: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-
gp/commercial/ground-fond/halibut-fletan/index-eng.htm.

If you are interested in participating in the 2014 Experimental Recreational
Halibut Fishery please review the information online and send in an expression
of interest by using the online form: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/forms/fm-
gp/halibut-fletan/eoi-edi-eng.aspx


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Adam Keizer
Halibut and Sablefish Coordinator
Groundfish Management Unit
Phone: (604) 666-0912
Fax: (604) 666-8525


Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0228
Sent March 20, 2014 at 16:26
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

If you have any questions or would like to unsubscribe, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.caCommercial Sectors do pay for there quota. It costs 80$ a pound do buy so get you facts strait before you start chirpin off you dumbass. Obviously not from the coast. The commercial sector also pays for there accountability in making sure the resourse is not overharvested. IE Cameras on deck 24 / 7 .

[srupp]

Hmmm one of my crazy passions is hali hunting..lol even got my own premium spear for the big one..lol..
There must be some way for bc recreational fisherpersons to catch and retain one big hali..thats what my accurate reels are for..last summer guide only went in to places with small..medium keepable halies..I seldom get out..the trip up north was with a buddy that bought the 3 day outi g..I got invited along..most all halies with one noteable exception were 30 #
Love halibut, and catching them also !
Cheers
Steven

[TPK]

Commercial Sectors do pay for there quota. It costs 80$ a pound do buy so get you facts strait before you start chirpin off you dumbass. Obviously not from the coast. The commercial sector also pays for there accountability in making sure the resourse is not overharvested. IE Cameras on deck 24 / 7 .

My chirpin dumb-ass does not feel residents should have to buy back quota from a commercial interest. chirp chirp chirp.

The commercial sector has to pay for their accountability by having cameras on board. Gee, I wonder why that is ..maybe there has proven to be a need for it .... regardless, that's the cost of doing business. Don't like it, don't do it. Do you feel the resident angler should help pay for commercial accountability or are you just complaining about the cost? chirp chirp chirp

Not sure how you reason in your mind that one has to be from the Coast in order to eligible to be upset about the Halibut fishery or to understand what's going on, that is beyond me but hey, I am after all just a chirpin dumb-ass... and on that note ... it's dumb-ass not "dumbass", you used "there" instead of "their" and you misspelled "resource". Add to this the fact that you're just now tuning in to a comment I made over a year ago and I have to tell ya .. your intellect is the one in question here .. or should I say you're intulect is the won in question hear ... chirp chirp

[LYKTOHUNT]

My chirpin dumb-ass does not feel residents should have to buy back quota from a commercial interest. chirp chirp chirp.

The commercial sector has to pay for their accountability by having cameras on board. Gee, I wonder why that is ..maybe there has proven to be a need for it .... regardless, that's the cost of doing business. Don't like it, don't do it. Do you feel the resident angler should help pay for commercial accountability or are you just complaining about the cost? chirp chirp chirp

Not sure how you reason in your mind that one has to be from the Coast in order to eligible to be upset about the Halibut fishery or to understand what's going on, that is beyond me but hey, I am after all just a chirpin dumb-ass... and on that note ... it's dumb-ass not "dumbass", you used "there" instead of "their" and you misspelled "resource". Add to this the fact that you're just now tuning in to a comment I made over a year ago and I have to tell ya .. your intellect is the one in question here .. or should I say you're intulect is the won in question hear ... chirp chirp
Bee YOU T Full excellent response Tony, that made my day

[fowl language]

if I may weigh in on this, there is some merit to what tpk says. as a former commercial halibut license holder I certainly did not pay any where,s near 80.00 per pound to purchase my halibut license. it was more in the line of about 7.00 per lb. and there are many who paid that for their license ,at some point all 435 licenses. I would also like to point out that we are charged back a mortality rate for sports fishing and the commercial fleet is not .a lot of what tpk is saying has merit but I urge you all to be respectful in your argument ,calling names only means a lock on this thread...as far as camera,s go, any body that wants to cheat can do so by hauling off the opposite side of the boat. I am not saying any one does I am just saying it could be done....fowl

[.264winmag]

What bothers me about the whole Hali allocation bs is it has nothing to do with conservation if you think about it. Sporties' have to let the big ones go so we don't go over our tac, but yet if you buy quota there is no size limit? I'm all for cutting the big girls loose but we should damn well be able to keep two chickens in the same day and 3 possession IMO. It's a bunch of bs as far as in concerned. I pretty much quit targeting flatties, drag enough up trolling for springs and target ling/snapper instead...

[wideopenthrottle]

To me... the real question is .. How do you get that quota out of the commercial sector? Other wise things like this will always come up or the fish will dissapear..[/QUOTE]

You tell them the commie licenses are now non transferable (except to a family member) and apply a use it or lose it requirement...if the commies don't catch em they will be there for us to catch....I didn't read the link on the history of it all yet but they got rid of commercial fishing where I grew up on Lake of the Woods Ontario like that



To me... the real question is .. How do you get that quota out of the commercial sector? Other wise things like this will always come up or the fish will dissapear..[/QUOTE]

[bigdogeh]

that's alot of the problem. imo, the public recreational sector should have the majority of the quota. not the commercial sector. It's similar to the guide outfitters having the majority of the big game quota. why should they? the resource belongs to the public. the government has their priorities wrong in this case. but greed, money and politics, special interests, lobbyists, trump ... why is it the recreational fisherman has to take the backseat? but it's OK for an american or foreigner to come over, spend some money for quota and harvest a 200 lb halibut while the "slipper skipper" sits back in his easy chair watching game of thrones...

[winchester284]

It's a screwy system, however if as a recreational fisherman, you've spent the money on gas equipment etc and are anchored over a productive halibut hole, the system works. Without it you get to keep 1 halibut each.... Under the quota system you can keep fishing and catch as many halibut as you want, as long as you're willing to do the paperwork and pay the $4 a pound the commercial guys are asking.... Brought back 20 halibut yesterday off Rupert. ��

[.264winmag]

Cant blame a guy for buying some quota! If I still ran charters full time I would be all over it. Don't feel the residents should have to pay to keep a few halibut though...

[The Hermit]

I think the wigs at DFO ought to be publicly whipped and only given 20% of their daily bread! Lets vote in politicians that are willing to do the right thing for the people of Canada and clean house at the DFO! This shit has been going on for years and its time for a wholesale change of policy.