Insert out...

[Franko Manini]

Yesterday, I went to the local shop to have my bow "retuned". It wasn't shooting well, and rather than blame myself, I thought I would have it checked out.

The pro found a couple things wrong with the setup and while paper tuning, he shot through the butt and supplanted one my my arrows quite firmly into the plywood backstop. When he pulled it out, the insret and point stayed behind in the plywood. He pulled it out with pliers and reglued it into the arrow.

When he replaced the insert, he didn't get it in all the way before the glue set, leaving it hanging out about 1/4" from the end of the carbon arrow. He tried to pull it back out but it was too late. He couldn't push it in either.

His solution was "Well, I guess you'll just have to use this as your #2 arrow.", which I think is just a joke. He built the arrow, he shot it, pulled it, "fixed" it... I really think he should replace it, but that's another issue. I've never been particularly impressed with this guy.

Does anyone know how I might be able to pull the insert and the replace it properly? It was glued with a cyanoacrylate (CA) based glue, and I think I have some solvent for CA around the shop somewhere. Ideas anyone?

[Tinney]

You need to find a new bow shop. That's ridiculous. As for the glue, try heating the TIP of the insert, this might make the glue weak enough to be pulled out and redone properly. Try to avoid heating the arrow though, carbons don't like that very much.

[bsa30-06]

I would agree with Tinney, this guy should have fixed the arrow properly.

[J_T]

Heating the arrow, might work. It will work better on an aluminum arrow than a carbon. I'm not sure what you are shooting. It may not be a big deal. Shoot the arrow and see how it performs.

The great thing about shooting the compound is that an off day can be blamed on the equipment. With Traditional gear, the poor shooter simply has nothing to blame but themselves.:sad:

I would agree with the others, if you're not getting the service/respect you need, change service outlets.

JT

[sealevel]

HEAT the tip up only-- the carbon arrow will burn. But heat it up enough that the insert pulls out easly if you pull to hard you will pull the inside layer of carbon out and wreck the arrow.---Learn to make your own you will get a better arrow a lot cheaper and its fun to

[Tinney]

^^ Tip only... DO NOT HEAT THE ARROW.....I've never seen one burn but if the carbon heats up too much you will be hooped.

[Franko Manini]

I'll give the heat thing a try tomorrow.

Thanks to all who responded.

One other thing to note. After this whole rigamoroll, the guy still charged me $15 for his "labour". He changed a few things that were, according to him, "done wrong in the original setup". Funny thing is that he was the guy that set it up originally! Unfortunately he's the only game in town.

I think I better get to know a few of the more accomplished folks oin this site that live around these parts. I'd gladly exchange beer/wine/coffee/lunch/dinner/etc. for advice and assistance.

[Bigbear]

In all cases Aluminum or Carbon, screw in an Old field tip and Heat that. It will Transfer heat to the insert and losen the Glue and you will be able the Pull it out. If you have one available, Put in a New insert especially If it has Been shot into a wall and pulled out with Plyers. It will most likely will not be true.

[bochunk2000]

Who was it so we won't make the mistake of dealing with him?

[sammy99]

When dealing with a cyanoacrylate glue you must pull as you heat the tip maintaining a constant pressure so that the instant the bond breaks the tip will come out. this will allow the least possible heat to get to the carbon, the good and the bad with the cyanoacrylate glues is they bond extremely well with carbon so they tend to hold tips in very well but they are tougher to pull than a slow set product like "powerbond"

And agreed on the statements above about finding a new shop...that is completely unnacceptable, incompetent and unprofessional service.

Chris

[willyqbc]

WHOOPS!! Posted under my wifes account:frown:

Chris

[puppychow]

I'll give the heat thing a try tomorrow.

Thanks to all who responded.

One other thing to note. After this whole rigamoroll, the guy still charged me $15 for his "labour". He changed a few things that were, according to him, "done wrong in the original setup". Funny thing is that he was the guy that set it up originally! Unfortunately he's the only game in town.

I think I better get to know a few of the more accomplished folks oin this site that live around these parts. I'd gladly exchange beer/wine/coffee/lunch/dinner/etc. for advice and assistance.
Only 1 pro shop in town, I hope it is not the only local shop that I know about in Victoria. I have never known of another shop that tunes bows locally. Good luck.

[Bow Walker]

Only 1 pro shop in town, I hope it is not the only local shop that I know about in Victoria. I have never known of another shop that tunes bows locally. Good luck.
Unfortunately 'tis true. They've lost a number of converts lately.:frown: People should practice the fine art of listening, more than talking!

[Franko Manini]

Only 1 pro shop in town, I hope it is not the only local shop that I know about in Victoria. I have never known of another shop that tunes bows locally. Good luck.

Maybe someone can correct me if I was wrong in my original statement regarding "the only game in town". I bet the mods won't want me staing the name of the shop on this forum, but I can tell you that the name of the shop rhymes with:

Pieland Pout-Hitters

The actual tech that tuned the bow is new to town and to the shop, so maybe the there is another shop to go to, or another tech to see at that shop. If anyone knows of another place to go in town, I'm all ears.

[Franko Manini]

When dealing with a cyanoacrylate glue you must pull as you heat the tip maintaining a constant pressure so that the instant the bond breaks the tip will come out. this will allow the least possible heat to get to the carbon, the good and the bad with the cyanoacrylate glues is they bond extremely well with carbon so they tend to hold tips in very well but they are tougher to pull than a slow set product like "powerbond"

And agreed on the statements above about finding a new shop...that is completely unnacceptable, incompetent and unprofessional service.

Chris

I found a product that is a CA solvent. It's apparently safe for carbon.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/gr/gpm/gpmgpmr6039.jpg

I'm going to try that prior to the heat thing tonight.

[willyqbc]

please post up the results of using the de-bonder, I would be interested to see how it works.

Also, if the person you dealt with is just the tech and not the tech/owner...i would bring this up with the shop owner or manager and give them a chance to make it right. Wouldn't hurt to inform him that his shop is getting a bad rep on a B.C. based website with 2000+ members.

Chris

[opico]

I have dealt with this shop for many years for both hunting and fishing. You have to take there advice with a grain of salt. Take what you need and pick out the comments that are exaggerations and pure lies. The store has cornered the market for the Victoria area. Other shops are no longer in existance. Some of the employees are those from Specialty guns. They have some very knowledgable staff, but others are questionable. If they make a mistake, they should rectify the situation in order to spurn on business and a good reputation. Even experts make errors, they are in the business world for a profit. I use other businesses if I can, such as Richard at Bucky's in Duncan. Just as knowledgable and a lot less boastful. He is honest and a very good archer himself. Not a full of tales and B.S.. He is very approachable and has been in the sporting business for many years. Give him a try. If you can not fix the glue job, cut the arrow shorter if you can or use the arrow as a practice arrow or for blunts and chalk it up to a lost hunting arrow. Hope you find a solution. I basically work on my own arrows and seek advice from other archer's. I have damaged some arrows by making mistakes in the process of arrow-making and have chalked it up to trial and error or my own stupidity. Best of luck Franko. Hope to see you at 3-D shoots locally.

[Bow Walker]

I have dealt with this shop for many years for both hunting and fishing. You have to take there advice with a grain of salt. Take what you need and pick out the comments that are exaggerations and pure lies......
That's pretty difficult for someone going in there for some advice from the "shop expert." Especially if that someone is fairly new to archery. How are they to know the ka-ka from the real stuff? Fortunately Franko is not a newbie.

Actually, that's the point of going in and asking advice and seeking help from these guys..........they are supposed to know what they are doing.

While they are obviously there to further the business, we all know that the best way to do that is to offer good advice, and stand behind the work that you do. Basically it's called customer service.

[Franko Manini]

One other point I'd like to make.

It's not as if I went in there every other day for a two weeks hanging around bugging folks to get free advice. I paid this tech for the time he put into the orignal setup, and the tune up time.

From this point on I'll put my energy into forming relationships with the very helpful members of this site, and spend my money on buying them beers/coffees for their time and efforts.

[Franko Manini]

please post up the results of using the de-bonder, I would be interested to see how it works.

Also, if the person you dealt with is just the tech and not the tech/owner...i would bring this up with the shop owner or manager and give them a chance to make it right. Wouldn't hurt to inform him that his shop is getting a bad rep on a B.C. based website with 2000+ members.

Chris

Thought I might get to this tonight, but alas I have just finished writing my fact sheet for my CBC interview tomorrow.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=10366

Maybe tomorrow night.

[Franko Manini]

Debonder worked beautifully guys. That arrow is back in action.

[Eagle1]

"The pro found a couple things wrong with the setup and while paper tuning, he shot through the butt and supplanted one my my arrows quite firmly into the plywood backstop. When he pulled it out, the insret and point stayed behind in the plywood. He pulled it out with pliers and reglued it into the arrow."

WHY is " THE PRO" paper tuning YOUR bow? It's your bow you should be shooting it thru paper to tune it to the way you grip and shoot, not his way.I could paper tune your bow for me to shoot bullit holes but for you it most likely will not, he should only assist you in your endevear to a bullit hole.

I've taken many an insert out of carbons with heat and have never had a problem. The cyno glues hold well for fletch but I found after awhile the glue on inserts will break loose on impact, as the glue is not made to handle impacts. The best stuff I have found is called " BLACK MAX" loctite product it bonds very well { but needs to set-up for at least 24 hrs } and is a small gap filler which is great cause all inserts don't fit snug in all arrows, Thing is it's fairly pricey, but I can't recall losing an insert or target point since I started using it years ago, so it pays for itself.

[Franko Manini]

"The pro found a couple things wrong with the setup and while paper tuning, he shot through the butt and supplanted one my my arrows quite firmly into the plywood backstop. When he pulled it out, the insret and point stayed behind in the plywood. He pulled it out with pliers and reglued it into the arrow."

WHY is " THE PRO" paper tuning YOUR bow? It's your bow you should be shooting it thru paper to tune it to the way you grip and shoot, not his way.I could paper tune your bow for me to shoot bullit holes but for you it most likely will not, he should only assist you in your endevear to a bullit hole.

I've taken many an insert out of carbons with heat and have never had a problem. The cyno glues hold well for fletch but I found after awhile the glue on inserts will break loose on impact, as the glue is not made to handle impacts. The best stuff I have found is called " BLACK MAX" loctite product it bonds very well { but needs to set-up for at least 24 hrs } and is a small gap filler which is great cause all inserts don't fit snug in all arrows, Thing is it's fairly pricey, but I can't recall losing an insert or target point since I started using it years ago, so it pays for itself.

He took a few initial shots to start with. I shot the rest of the time.

[The Hermit]

I'm sorry to hear of the problems you have had there. On the other hand I have had the best service in a long time from him. I get what folks are saying about the boastful stuff but to me he doesn't sound boastful just excited and into the story.

BTW - He has left that shop and gone to another in Sooke. I will be going to Sooke for service now...

[bochunk2000]

BTW - He has left that shop and gone to another in Sooke. I will be going to Sooke for service now...

Which one? Is it Eagle eye?
Steve.

[Eagle1]

Eagle Eye is the only outdoors shop in Sooke and I heard they were getting into archery. A little to far out of the way for most guys.
I also heard he was going to move back to the mainland cause it cost to much to go hunting with the cost of the ferries. Which is it??

[opico]

Regardless Eagle1, at least he is a man of his word!!!!!! Even though he loves to tell stories. No farther than Cobble Hill.

[Eagle1]

I have dealt with this shop for many years for both hunting and fishing. You have to take there advice with a grain of salt. Take what you need and pick out the comments that are exaggerations and pure lies. The store has cornered the market for the Victoria area. Other shops are no longer in existance. Some of the employees are those from Specialty guns. They have some very knowledgable staff, but others are questionable. If they make a mistake, they should rectify the situation in order to spurn on business and a good reputation. Even experts make errors, they are in the business world for a profit. I use other businesses if I can, such as Richard at Bucky's in Duncan. Just as knowledgable and a lot less boastful. He is honest and a very good archer himself. Not a full of tales and B.S.. He is very approachable and has been in the sporting business for many years. Give him a try. If you can not fix the glue job, cut the arrow shorter if you can or use the arrow as a practice arrow or for blunts and chalk it up to a lost hunting arrow. Hope you find a solution. I basically work on my own arrows and seek advice from other archer's. I have damaged some arrows by making mistakes in the process of arrow-making and have chalked it up to trial and error or my own stupidity. Best of luck Franko. Hope to see you at 3-D shoots locally.
I don't know who you are, as your one of those that don't fill out their profile { scared to, people might know you when you stir up s - - t } I am a man of my word as much as I can be, If you had a beef with me and didn't tell me about it and just never came back, thats not my problem, I cant try to fix it. Every sports shop people have stories, custermers included. If he's that good why did he say to his boss that he was leaving the Island if he's only going to Sooke, a lie in my books.If you live in Victoria, it's about the same to here or to Sooke.:evil:

[Nails]

Interesting whats going on.

[opico]

Won't go to your shop Eagle1, and couldn't even if I wanted to? You are never there.

[Eagle1]

Won't go to your shop Eagle1, and couldn't even if I wanted to? You are never there.

I work every day, any one that knows anything knows I'm here on Saturdays.
It's your perogitive were you go, your lose,not mine.:evil:

[Eagle1]

Mr/Mrs opico
I see by the times that you post, either you don't work or you sit behind a desk and read anything and everything about archery and you think you know everything there is to know about archery and tell everyone so.

[willyqbc]

if you folks have a beef with each other please take it up with PM's and not on the open forum.

Thanks
Chris

[Bow Walker]

opico - X 2.........no need to air dirty laundry in public.

[Gateholio]

From this point on I'll put my energy into forming relationships with the very helpful members of this site, and spend my money on buying them beers/coffees for their time and efforts.

I don't know much about fixing arrows these days, although I used to fix up the vanes on some of my old aluminum ones and built osme of my own woooden ones, so I can't help you wiht that.

But, I would like you to know that I wll alwyas accept free beer. I can send you my adress if you want to send me a case.

Thanks:lol:

[Eagle1]

Sorry guys, he just got my dander up a little, Maybe he should go and hide out on AT there's a lot of bashing going on there and they hide behind : no profile "
I don't do a lot of archery selling cause I am working everyday, I do build strings and do some bow repairs/ tune - ups ,coaching if needed, but 9 1/2 times out of 10 I'm here on Saturdays,unless there's a two day shoot going on.
Won't happen again, as the saying goes
" you can please some of the people all the time
but you can't please all the people all the time "

[The 'Hummer']

Sorry guys, he just got my dander up a little, Maybe he should go and hide out on AT there's a lot of bashing going on there and they hide behind : no profile "
I don't do a lot of archery selling cause I am working everyday, I do build strings and do some bow repairs/ tune - ups ,coaching if needed, but 9 1/2 times out of 10 I'm here on Saturdays,unless there's a two day shoot going on.
Won't happen again, as the saying goes
" you can please some of the people all the time
but you can't please all the people all the time "
Hang in there Bill. Take what he, she, it or they say with a grain of salt. You might need more, perhaps a pound.:wink:

[BowSitter]

I don't know anything about nothing but I do know that my Hoyt Ultra-Tec shoots better than it has ever with Eagle 1's Tuning and String and cables.
Just one mans opinion...............Ron:) :)

[islandarcher]

I've always known Bill to be a pretty decent guy, and never one to steer ya wrong when it comes to tuning a bow.

[Gateholio]

Uhh..yeah..the offer to send me free beer is stil open- to anyone :)

[puppychow]

Haven't even had time to shoot very often in the last year! Had no need to see Bill in the last 1 1/2 years but now I know that he is only there on Saturdays. He done a big favour for me in the past and has been fair with me. Wish he was closer to Victoria, like in Colwood, on Sooke Road. I would trust Bill with my bow anytime. Puppychow (Ivan)

[Bow Walker]

Other than me, Bill is the only other guy to work on my bow. No complaints at all.

He has built string and cables for my last two bows. I don't shoot anybody else's string/cable combos.

And this thread is officially Hi-Jacked!

[Eagle1]

Thanks guys, I just got a little hot under the collar, won't happen again.
This is a great site and Mark and the team of mods are doing a bang up job.
A great place for newbies to learn things from us old dogs,{ and maybe us old dogs pick up a new thing or two } and to brag a little about our acomplishments.
Thanks again guys

Bill

[Onesock]

Hey Eagle can ya tune my longbow?

[Eagle1]

Hey Eagle can ya tune my longbow?
I can tune most anything with a string that flings arrows, BUUUUUUT I think that rototiller bow is beyond help, just kidding.
You shoot that bow pretty dang good.
I can say I used to own one, but I sold it, " I'M A SPEED FREAK"
I remember when I got into archer you use to own and shoot a " compound ":evil:

[Onesock]

Yea, when I was on the dark side!!